What's the Difference Between Ozzie Guillen and...

[ManCrushOnNomar]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

 

Why do you assume he doesn't hate and fear gays? Because he says so? If you use that word as an insult, it probably means you respect gays less on some level. Try and rationalize it, but the mere use of the word as an insult is homophobic.

Thank you.

[K-Town]

Ozzie Guillen will never change and will never get "it" because he doesn't care what "it" is.

 

He could be forced to go to "sensitivity" counselling and read the Bible of Political Correctness and it still wouldn't matter. He just doesn't care. If he were suspended by MLB for his conduct (highly unlikely) he would just view himself as a martyr.

 

To steal from SNL, baseball has been bery, bery good to Ozzie. He goes home to Venezuela and thumbs his nose at The PC American media and is a hero because of his self-proclaimed macho-ism.

 

He is not a leader of men he is simply a manager of a baseball team. Somewhere right now he is laughing his a** off about all of this.

 

 

=D>

[wolf stansson]

I hear the n word used far more frequently than the f word.

Well either you hang out with a lot of racists, listen to too much rap, or for some reason are exaggerating.

[soccer10k]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

[RationalSoxFan]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

Link?

 

Also, I agree with everything Rocket Sauce said.

[woodchip2153]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

 

I've heard this referenced several times, not just here, but also by national sources like Jim Caple.

 

My question is...Why didn't this make bigger news last year? or is my memory just getting that bad?

[K-Town]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

Link?

 

Also, I agree with everything Rocket Sauce said.

 

 

 

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/ozzie-guillen/ozzie-guillen-sexual-profiler-117119.php

 

 

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/08/09/bucmlb09.htm

[CubsBullsBears]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

I don't dislike Mariotti.

[soccer10k]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

 

I've heard this referenced several times, not just here, but also by national sources like Jim Caple.

 

My question is...Why didn't this make bigger news last year? or is my memory just getting that bad?

 

I don't remember it either. It didn't make bigger news because it's just Ozzie being Ozzie.

[cubbyvirus00]

Personally I use the word "[expletive]" and I call my friends "[expletive]" from time to time.

 

It doesen't mean I HATE gay people. It doesent mean I'm fearful of them. Distasteful? Yes. But it's just a word ive grown up and accustomed to calling my buddies.

 

 

I don't see the big deal with the use of that word. BUT I think if you're in the public spotlight you should use a better word.

[soccer10k]

It's all in the context in which it was used. Cubbyvirus, you calling your friends that name is a lot different than Guillen calling Mariotti that word. They are your friends so they know you don't mean it in a nasty way. The last time I checked, Guillen and Mariotti aren't friends at all. It's different. I'm not condoning the usage of the word, I'm just saying that one must look at the context in which the word was used before one can determine how mean it is.

[goonys evil twin]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

Link?

 

Also, I agree with everything Rocket Sauce said.

 

Of course you do, you're a Guillen apologist.

[goonys evil twin]

I hear the n word used far more frequently than the f word.

Well either you hang out with a lot of racists, listen to too much rap, or for some reason are exaggerating.

 

Or you don't know anything about me.

 

I was just walking down the street to my favorite deli this afternoon and two kids were apparantly talking about some movie. They kept saying stuff like, "and then he lit up all them n*****, I'd have taken out that n*****. That n***** was crazy" etc, etc, etc. Probably heard the word 30 times in the 2 blocks I was walking near them.

[RationalSoxFan]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

Link?

 

Also, I agree with everything Rocket Sauce said.

 

Of course you do, you're a Guillen apologist.

Why don't you check everything I've said about it? I think it was awful, but Rocket Sauce is right, it is not the same as what Rocker said. Guillen called him a [expletive] out of spite, but not because he's gay. Rocker went off and called gay people "[expletive]" as well as referencing "some queer with AIDS." There's a big difference.

[Balsa]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

I don't dislike Mariotti.

:shock:

[CubsBullsBears]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

I don't dislike Mariotti.

:shock:

I don't. I think he's one of the best sportswriters in America.

[SouthSideRyan]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

 

Guillen equated homosexuals and child molestors while in New York last year. Not sure about the context but Guillen did it.

Link?

 

Also, I agree with everything Rocket Sauce said.

 

Of course you do, you're a Guillen apologist.

Why don't you check everything I've said about it? I think it was awful, but Rocket Sauce is right, it is not the same as what Rocker said. Guillen called him a [expletive] out of spite, but not because he's gay. Rocker went off and called gay people "[expletive]" as well as referencing "some queer with AIDS." There's a big difference.

 

It's a very small difference. Ozzie is using a term for gays as an insult. He is deriding gays whether he is talking about one specifically or using a title referring to them as something to tear down somebody else.

[Flames24Rulz]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

I don't dislike Mariotti.

:shock:

I don't. I think he's one of the best sportswriters in America.

 

Wow as a Bears fan like your name indicates, I can't believe you feel that way. Mariotti basically ran Ditka out of town and he's trying to do the same thing to Guillen (which I know you have no problem with). Mariotti is a scum, plain and simple. You are in a very, very, very small minority that likes that moron. I tried reading one of his columns on the train back from Chicago after going to a Cubs game about 2 months ago and I couldn't even finish reading the article it was so pathetic. I'm glad ESPN1000 fired him. I'd also watch Around the Horn a ton more if he wasn't on it. Bottom line is to say I don't like Jay Mariotti would be an understatement.

[CubsBullsBears]

Rocker insulted a powerful city. Guillen insulted someone everyone dislikes.

I don't dislike Mariotti.

:shock:

I don't. I think he's one of the best sportswriters in America.

 

Wow as a Bears fan like your name indicates, I can't believe you feel that way. Mariotti basically ran Ditka out of town and he's trying to do the same thing to Guillen (which I know you have no problem with). Mariotti is a scum, plain and simple. You are in a very, very, very small minority that likes that moron. I tried reading one of his columns on the train back from Chicago after going to a Cubs game about 2 months ago and I couldn't even finish reading the article it was so pathetic. I'm glad ESPN1000 fired him. I'd also watch Around the Horn a ton more if he wasn't on it. Bottom line is to say I don't like Jay Mariotti would be an understatement.

've been a Bears fan since 1998.

[RationalSoxFan]

Mariotti is probably the most universally hated sportswriter in America. He knows what sells, controversy, negativity. He can spin anything to make it negative. Bears fans hate him, Illinois fans hate him, Cubs/Sox/Blackhawks/Fire/Sky/Any fans within 500 miles hate him.

[jjgman21]

Personally I use the word "[expletive]" and I call my friends "[expletive]" from time to time.

 

It doesen't mean I HATE gay people. It doesent mean I'm fearful of them. Distasteful? Yes. But it's just a word ive grown up and accustomed to calling my buddies.

 

 

I don't see the big deal with the use of that word. BUT I think if you're in the public spotlight you should use a better word.

 

the word obviously has alot of different meanings to alot of different people. when I was 8, I moved from the city to the far out burbs with my aunt, uncle, and cousins, including one cousin who was my age and remains my best friend to this day. he and his friends were much like you and your friends. they called each other '[expletive]' all the time. a couple years later, we found out what the word actually meant. but it stuck with him, and he continued to use it.

 

my cousin is not a big baseball fan, but the team he follows is the white sox. his reaction to the Palphabet/Barrett incident..."what a [expletive]!" now I find the word offensive, but does anyone really think my cousin's comment had anything to do with degrading homosexuals or implying that Barrett was a homosexual for his acts? I'm a pretty PC person, but that is really a little thin skinned.

 

to some people that word has little meaning, other than as a general insult. for others it has the meaning that many are objecting to. I can't stand Ozzie, but an argument of his meaning can be made either way. english is not his first language. on the other hand, he's been in this country for about three decades and, as I learned above, he has a history of derrogatory statements about homosexuals.

 

in the end, I concur with whoever it was that said Ozzie should just shut up, and agree that Rocket hit the nail on the head with his comments. oh, and one more thing, if I heard the n word as often as goony, I'd move.

[jam1975]

Personally I use the word "[expletive]" and I call my friends "[expletive]" from time to time.

 

It doesen't mean I HATE gay people. It doesent mean I'm fearful of them. Distasteful? Yes. But it's just a word ive grown up and accustomed to calling my buddies.

 

 

I don't see the big deal with the use of that word. BUT I think if you're in the public spotlight you should use a better word.

 

the word obviously has alot of different meanings to alot of different people. when I was 8, I moved from the city to the far out burbs with my aunt, uncle, and cousins, including one cousin who was my age and remains my best friend to this day. he and his friends were much like you and your friends. they called each other '[expletive]' all the time. a couple years later, we found out what the word actually meant. but it stuck with him, and he continued to use it.

 

my cousin is not a big baseball fan, but the team he follows is the white sox. his reaction to the Palphabet/Barrett incident..."what a [expletive]!" now I find the word offensive, but does anyone really think my cousin's comment had anything to do with degrading homosexuals or implying that Barrett was a homosexual for his acts? I'm a pretty PC person, but that is really a little thin skinned.

 

to some people that word has little meaning, other than as a general insult. for others it has the meaning that many are objecting to. I can't stand Ozzie, but an argument of his meaning can be made either way. english is not his first language. on the other hand, he's been in this country for about three decades and, as I learned above, he has a history of derrogatory statements about homosexuals.

 

in the end, I concur with whoever it was that said Ozzie should just shut up, and agree that Rocket hit the nail on the head with his comments. oh, and one more thing, if I heard the n word as often as goony, I'd move.

 

In the context of this debate, the word pretty much has only one definition. It's a slur against homosexuals, plain and simple. Just because Mariotti and your friends are not actually gay does not take away the pejorative intention of the word towards gays.

 

There are people that use "[expletive]" to describe certain types of people of all colors. Their argument is that their definition refers to people who are lazy or ignorant and is regardless of color. That maybe well and good, but the origin of that word uses the racist assumption that all black people were those things. When I was in high school, 2 morning drive djs in St. Louis were fired for directing the word at a caller in this manner and using this defense. The were fired for it and justifiable so.

 

The use of the word "[expletive]" to describe anyone regardless of sexual orientation is the same way. Your using the pejorative origin of the word to demean someone by using the homophobic assumption that being gay makes you less of a man, less masculine.

 

I realize this is primarily a sports message board, so it probably gravitates towards the locker room mentality of overt macho heterosexuality. But statiscally speaking of the over 3000 members it would stand to reason that at the very least one person on here is gay if not more. I'm curious if you would be able to justify your use of the word to them and have them accept your plea of no harmful intention towards to their sexuality.

[rocket]

How can you compare the two as equal if one is not even dared to be typed out?

 

I hear the n word used far more frequently than the f word.

 

not me.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How can you compare the two as equal if one is not even dared to be typed out?

 

I hear the n word used far more frequently than the f word.

 

not me.

 

me either, but that's because I'm a frequent user of the f-word. I never use the n-word. (And if I did, it would cost me my job.)

[rocket]

there is a difference.

 

clearly and explicitly saying you hate new york city because you run into a gay man on the subway is blatantly horrible and homophobic and said out of fear and hatred of gays. calling jay mariotti a [expletive] when he's mad is stupid and childish, but doesn't really mean he hates and fears gays.

Let's say he called someone in the media, say Dan Jiggets, a derragatory term for a black man (the same one Rocker used). What would the media's reaction be to this?

 

To me they're all the same. Bigoted hateful words aren't any better than any other. Dispicable.

 

that word can only be used in a racist way. you wouldn't call a white guy that out of anger and hatred for the guy. calling someone a [expletive] (and i can't stress enough how much of an idiot ozzie is for using that word, and he deserves to be shamed in the media for it) does not necessarily mean "i hate you because you are homosexual".

 

i'm just answering the question posed in the subject. rocker's comments were made out of genuine hatred for the groups he was lambasting. ozzie's comments were made because he's a moron.

 

I heartily disagree. And believe me, I know. When I'm called a [expletive], there is NOTHING but hate behind that. When my male friends are called [expletive], there is nothing but hate behind that too. I can't see any instance where words like that don't have hate and ignorance in their intent.

 

a guy will call another guy a [expletive] even if he's 100% sure he's straight. to some dumb guys, it's the same as calling a guy a "wuss" or a "[expletive]". and i agree, it's an awful, horrible thing to say, and it's inexcusable.