Ronny Cedeno vs. Rafael Furcal

[Big Fergie J]

Interesting to compare the stats at this point in this season :

 

Cedeno in 66 games : .290/.314/.392 and 11 errors.

 

Furcal in 67 games : .249/.329/.335 and 16 errors.

 

And how much did Furcal get again ?!?!

[Pinktermite]

He got something more than Ronnie makes, that's for sure. I'll take Ronnie over that drunk driving fool any day...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I always thought Mr. Furcal was overrated, and I hope he continues to prove me right. Lush.

[Soul]

And just think, Hendry wanted very badly to sign Furcal for massive $$$, not realizing he had a better, cheaper option already in the organization.

 

 

Kinda lets you know all you need to about Mr. Hendry, don't it?

[CubsBullsBears]

[sarcasm]Maybe he was going after him so Derrek Lee wouldn't get rammed into.[/sarcasm]

[Shavo]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

[IowaCubsFan]

The better comparison is between Furcal and Juan Pierre, not Cedeno.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The better comparison is between Furcal and Juan Pierre, not Cedeno.

 

I think an even better comparison might be Furcal vs Todd Walker. It was widely speculated that Hendry was going to add Pierre whether or not he signed Furcal. Ronny would likely have ended up at 2B with Walker being the odd man out.

[otis89]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

 

Furcal's OBP isn't that much better than Cedeno's.

[Tracer Bullet]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

 

1. What's a reasonable price?

 

2. What are the chances he'd sign for that?

 

Given the very slight difference in OBP and huge difference in pay-Cedeno is a better fit for the team. We could use the money not spent for Furcal to fill the holes in the team. SS isn't anywhere near our biggest problem.

[IowaCubsFan]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

 

1. What's a reasonable price?

 

2. What are the chances he'd sign for that?

 

Given the very slight difference in OBP and huge difference in pay-Cedeno is a better fit for the team. We could use the money not spent for Furcal to fill the holes in the team. SS isn't anywhere near our biggest problem.

 

You're creating a false choice here. Cedeno was already expected to be a part of the team, even if Furcal had been signed. And would you seriously argue that the money not spent on Furcal has been spent "to fill the holes in the team?"

 

I'm sick of this talk of overpaying. Wouldn't you rather see the Cubs spending $110 million this year instead of $96 million and have a leadoff hitter with an OBP some 40 points higher than Pierre's (at one point it was close to 80 points higher this season), and still have Derrek Lee in the lineup? The Tribune could easily spend as much money as the Yankees; they just choose not to. The better investment would have been to go hard after an even better leadoff hitter like Johnny Damon, whose OBP is in the .350 range. But since this is the Trib, who tries to get their free agents on blue light special, that's a pipe dream.

[daske17]

I'm sick of this talk of overpaying. Wouldn't you rather see the Cubs spending $110 million this year instead of $96 million and have a leadoff hitter with an OBP some 40 points higher than Pierre's (at one point it was close to 80 points higher this season), and still have Derrek Lee in the lineup?

 

Granted we have a lead-off man currently that is beyond terrible, but how loud would the cries be if Furcal's .249/.329/.335 was in the number one spot? Would we be talking about how he's not living up to his salary?

 

I'm glad we didn't get Furcal for every reason other than it would have kept D Lee in the lineup.

[CubinNY]

If the Cubs signed Furcal he'd just be another high priced player underperforming his contract. He's at a point in his career where he will probably underperform until he retires.

 

I was never for signing Furcal, and I'm glad he walked away from the deal.

 

Walker>Furcal

Cedeno>Furcal

Pierre>Furcal (for the money)

 

Furcal saved Hendry from himself.

[badger1679666666]

Walker>Furcal

Cedeno>Furcal

Pierre>Furcal (for the money)

 

Furcal saved Hendry from himself.

 

Pierre is barely better than Perez. Other than that I agree with you.

[Shavo]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

 

Furcal's OBP isn't that much better than Cedeno's.

 

I just hate Cedeno's inability to see pitches at certain points. I think Furcal is a better player at this stage, hopefully Cedeno improves his patience.

[Caryatid]

I'm sick of this talk of overpaying. Wouldn't you rather see the Cubs spending $110 million this year instead of $96 million and have a leadoff hitter with an OBP some 40 points higher than Pierre's (at one point it was close to 80 points higher this season), and still have Derrek Lee in the lineup? The Tribune could easily spend as much money as the Yankees; they just choose not to. The better investment would have been to go hard after an even better leadoff hitter like Johnny Damon, whose OBP is in the .350 range. But since this is the Trib, who tries to get their free agents on blue light special, that's a pipe dream.

 

I'd be more happy if they spent $86 million and didn't have Perez, Rusch, and Pierre on the team, and a solid abilty to evaluate talent.

[jkrapfl]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

 

1. What's a reasonable price?

 

2. What are the chances he'd sign for that?

 

Given the very slight difference in OBP and huge difference in pay-Cedeno is a better fit for the team. We could use the money not spent for Furcal to fill the holes in the team. SS isn't anywhere near our biggest problem.

 

You're creating a false choice here. Cedeno was already expected to be a part of the team, even if Furcal had been signed. And would you seriously argue that the money not spent on Furcal has been spent "to fill the holes in the team?"

 

I'm sick of this talk of overpaying. Wouldn't you rather see the Cubs spending $110 million this year instead of $96 million and have a leadoff hitter with an OBP some 40 points higher than Pierre's (at one point it was close to 80 points higher this season), and still have Derrek Lee in the lineup? The Tribune could easily spend as much money as the Yankees; they just choose not to. The better investment would have been to go hard after an even better leadoff hitter like Johnny Damon, whose OBP is in the .350 range. But since this is the Trib, who tries to get their free agents on blue light special, that's a pipe dream.

 

The decision on which free agents to sign is not the Tribune's. That decision falls solely on Jim Hendry. The Trib gave Hendry more than enough money to sign the free agents that would have made this team competitive, but he chose to waste the money on guys like Neifi, Rusch, Mabry, etc.

[Caryatid]

They're spending $98 million. Remove the following salaries:

 

Pierre: 5.75

Mabry: 1.1

Blanco: 1.5

Perez: 2.5

Rusch: 2.75

Wood: 12

Miller: 1.0

Maddux: 9

Total: 35.6

 

 

That's $35.6 million to spend on quality players (or-more than double the Marlins total payroll). Think about what a good GM could have done with 35.6 million and ask yourself whether or not its truly the Trib's fault for not giving Hendry enough money.

 

 

To put it another way. Hire a guy to paint your house. Give him money up front. Instead of spending it on good paint, he buys mediocre paint that peels almost immediately. Are you going to give him MORE money to do a bad job again? No-you're going to look for a new painter. That is the Trib's only mistake here-not hiring a new painter.

[rocket]

They're spending $98 million. Remove the following salaries:

 

Pierre: 5.75

Mabry: 1.1

Blanco: 1.5

Perez: 2.5

Rusch: 2.75

Wood: 12

Miller: 1.0

Maddux: 9

Total: 35.6

 

 

That's $35.6 million to spend on quality players (or-more than double the Marlins total payroll). Think about what a good GM could have done with 35.6 million and ask yourself whether or not its truly the Trib's fault for not giving Hendry enough money.

 

 

To put it another way. Hire a guy to paint your house. Give him money up front. Instead of spending it on good paint, he buys mediocre paint that peels almost immediately. Are you going to give him MORE money to do a bad job again? No-you're going to look for a new painter. That is the Trib's only mistake here-not hiring a new painter.

 

Just a nitpick, but no one thought it was a bad idea to extend Kerry Wood when we did at the time. He was coming off 2 healthy, very productive seasons in a row.

 

It didn't work out, but hindsight is 20/20.

[Big Fergie J]

If the Cubs signed Furcal he'd just be another high priced player underperforming his contract. He's at a point in his career where he will probably underperform until he retires. I was never for signing Furcal, and I'm glad he walked away from the deal.

 

Walker>Furcal

Cedeno>Furcal

Pierre>Furcal (for the money)

 

Furcal saved Hendry from himself.

 

I agree with these two points.

 

The point of my original post is more that Cedeno, for what he is earning, is performing better than Furcal. For a young shortstop he is doing his job. Obviously the Cubs are lacking in several areas but shortstop isn't one of them. Yes, he has some areas to improve on but as of now he is holding up his end of the bargain.

[Pinktermite]

Signing wood at the time that they did, for the money they did, was not a bad idea at the time. The bad thing is that Hendry wanted Furcal so badly, and that's the bottom line...the players he chooses are good when they are good...and really stink up the place at the same time. It's always one step forward and two steps back with hendry. Man, what a good GM could do with the money the cubs have at their disposal.

[Soul]

They're spending $98 million. Remove the following salaries:

 

Pierre: 5.75

Mabry: 1.1

Blanco: 1.5

Perez: 2.5

Rusch: 2.75

Wood: 12

Miller: 1.0

Maddux: 9

Total: 35.6

 

 

That's $35.6 million to spend on quality players (or-more than double the Marlins total payroll). Think about what a good GM could have done with 35.6 million and ask yourself whether or not its truly the Trib's fault for not giving Hendry enough money.

 

 

To put it another way. Hire a guy to paint your house. Give him money up front. Instead of spending it on good paint, he buys mediocre paint that peels almost immediately. Are you going to give him MORE money to do a bad job again? No-you're going to look for a new painter. That is the Trib's only mistake here-not hiring a new painter.

 

Indeed. But you said it yourself: the Trib is not hiring that new painter. They're staying with the status quo, and have given no indication they will change any time soon.

 

Further, I would argue they didn't do their homework in the first place, instead hiring Hendry as de-facto GM because he was already in the system, not because there was any indication he would be a successful GM.

 

Either way you slice it, there's just no way to insulate ownership from the futility of the team on the field. They are part of the equation, and deserve their share of the blame, regardless of how much cash they dole out on a yearly basis.

[Balsa]

I remember being really angry that the Dodgers stole Furcal from us, after Furcal repeatedly said "It's not about the money", but I guess it really worked out for us in the end, minus the bizarre idea that if we had Furcal, we might have had a healthy DLee.

 

IMO, the only negative thing that came from not signing Furcal was that we gave just a bit too much to the Marlins. But then, I really think Hendry was aiming to win this year, and those propsects wouldn't have fit into how he saw this year working (healthy everyone).

[SoonerCubFan]

The better comparison is between Furcal and Juan Pierre, not Cedeno.

 

I think an even better comparison might be Furcal vs Todd Walker. It was widely speculated that Hendry was going to add Pierre whether or not he signed Furcal. Ronny would likely have ended up at 2B with Walker being the odd man out.

 

Exactly, although the bigger point about either having no overall plan heading into the offseason, or at least one that was profoundly offbase is really highlighted here. All that Furcal earmarked $$ not going to Brian Giles, and thus changing the organizational approach, is the real telltale issue that must be reversed in future FA markets. I still think we really dodged a bullet IRT Cedeno, who I see as our starting SS for the next decade, with GG ability and plenty of untapped offensive potential.

[Tracer Bullet]

I would take Furcal at a reasonable price over Ronny "I will never take a walk" Cedeno any time.

 

1. What's a reasonable price?

 

2. What are the chances he'd sign for that?

 

Given the very slight difference in OBP and huge difference in pay-Cedeno is a better fit for the team. We could use the money not spent for Furcal to fill the holes in the team. SS isn't anywhere near our biggest problem.

 

You're creating a false choice here. Cedeno was already expected to be a part of the team, even if Furcal had been signed. And would you seriously argue that the money not spent on Furcal has been spent "to fill the holes in the team?"

 

I'm sick of this talk of overpaying. Wouldn't you rather see the Cubs spending $110 million this year instead of $96 million and have a leadoff hitter with an OBP some 40 points higher than Pierre's (at one point it was close to 80 points higher this season), and still have Derrek Lee in the lineup? The Tribune could easily spend as much money as the Yankees; they just choose not to. The better investment would have been to go hard after an even better leadoff hitter like Johnny Damon, whose OBP is in the .350 range. But since this is the Trib, who tries to get their free agents on blue light special, that's a pipe dream.

 

First - I didn't create any choice - I was making a comment about the choice given. I didn't say it was between Furcal and Cedeno - the original post set up that choice. I was disagreeing with the post quoted (that Shavo would rather have Furcal than Cedeno). And I said the money not spent on Furcal could have been spent to fill the holes - it wasn't (or at least not effectively) but it could have been. No where in my post did I say the money was spent to fill holes.

 

Second - I'm not talking about overpaying. I have no qualms with how much the Cubs are spending and would be fine with spending more. But if the choice is Furcal or Pierre - I'd take neither and use Walker - who is just as good at leading off as either of those two (plus, I don't think you can really say that had we signed Furcal, Lee wouldn't be injured - just too many intervening factors there). And I don't think the Trib was the problem this year - it was the people Hendry targeted (and to a lesser extent, the people that were available). Given the choices (Furcal and Pierre) JH would have been better w/ neither and letting Walker lead off. I'm not saying that b/c I want the Cubs to spend less, I'm saying that b/c I'd rather have Cedeno & Walker in the MI than Furcal and one of them.