Ozzie Guillen is trash

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I'm not really in favor of it, but I would hope that someday Ozzie comes to realize that it sounds rather foolish when he drops these words practically in every sound bite. And also that there are kids watching.

 

I don't think Ozzie really cares. He's a jock doing his job, and I don't think he's trying to win baseball games, not cultivate a culture. I grew up watching Bob Knight throw basketball chairs and Coach K berate refs... doesn't mean I do the same when I coach as an adult. I think most people can separate that.

 

This is more in reference to kids running around using the language. Just simply repeating what Ozzie has said in these instances. Not that they won't hear it, but it only adds more. For example, when he sat down with the media today, he knew what the topic would be. He could have contained his language in that given moment(s) and avoided the profanity. What he does in the dugout is during the game and if that is what he feels he should do then more power to him. I just thinnk he can choose his spots a bit better.

[CDBears1259]

Does anyone happen to know if there is any video out there in cyberspace of the entire incident? I don't know if was replayed anywhere on TV, if it was I missed.

[SouthSideRyan]

Line drive off Buehrle's head plz.

 

I'm game.

 

So when Steve Kline suggest that Mark Prior get hit by one, it's wrong, and it's okay for two of us to say it.

 

I'm becoming less and less proud to be a Cub fan with comments lke this. There's a 4-page thread on Ozzie Guillen, a manager with a World Series ring and a competitive team this year, and it's all negative. So many "real" Cub fans talk about how obsessed with the Cubs Sox fans are, and how they're fickle, and don't exist. Judging by this section of the board and half the people that are/were Cub "fans," many of us aren't too far from that either.

 

I feel like making some of you feel like that Sox pitcher last night. Grow up. I find it real tough to criticize a manager who just brought a World Series to a town where our manager does nothing but underachieve and make excuses. Yes, it was wrong, but how many of you wouldn't trade Guillen for Baker?

 

How bout it's a 5 page thread because it's big news in baseball. There's a long thread on it over at baseballthinkfactory. Damn those fans and their white sox obsession. Poll up at ESPN, can't that network just get over the White Sox already!!!

 

I think "Ozzie Guillen has a ring so don't criticize him" may be my new most hated internet-ism. Derek Jeter's 6 year reign of "count the ringzzzzzz" has finally ended.

 

Nobody's talking about Ozzie's managing skills now, they're talking about the fact that he's a colossal prick, which has been mathematically proven already. Talking about what a godawful manager Baker is contributes NOTHING to the conversation, beyond the fact that nobody's talking about Guillen's relative skills and faults as a manager,(faults in a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION MANAGER???? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!! BOB BRENLY 4 LYFE) holding managers up to the standard of "at least he's better than Dusty" is going to wind up banning us from criticizing 90% of the managers in baseball.

[CubbieRich]

Ozzie was faced with the problem of having one of his pitchers nail a Ranger. Since they are going to lose Brian Anderson soon because of the Cubs-Sox fight, they will be one man short anyway. If Vasquez nails a Ranger, he gets tossed and no suspension. Old school says Vasquez should take care of it. He didn't do it. It was his catcher they nailed twice. So now Ozzie must send in a rookie pitcher to finish the deal. They could always use the excuse of the rookie being wild and people would have bought it. He missed, but at least he tried. Now Ozzie blows up because he knows he can't plunk anybody now, because it's too obvious. The umps will probably warn the Sox before tonight's game.

 

If there was no DH and the pitcher was allowed to bat, it would have been taken care of and that would be that. Old school pitchers like Gibson, Drysdale, Marichal, etc.. would have taken care of it-pronto.

 

 

Gibson rarely hit batters.

 

Two reasons for that:

 

1) Nobody would be stupid enough to show him up.

2) Nobody would crowd the plate on him. That would hurt.

 

Even though he didn't hit many, very few hitters were not intimidated by Gibson.

 

As I remember Gibson hit more than 100 batters. Next.

 

It was a different time in baseball, where players took care of things and there was a better understanding of how to play the game. You didn't have body armor on your arms or legs. If you crowded the plate like a Ron Hunt or hung out over it like Frank Robinson, you were going to get hit. Unless they threw at your head, you took your shot and then took a base. None of this staring at the mound and acting silly.

 

Gibson always said that 1/2 of the plate belongs to him and half to the batter. He just wouldn't tell you which 1/2. Players respected him because he played the game the way it should be. Someone asked him one time if he had been on the mound when Babe Ruth pointed to the bleachers at Wrigley. Gibson said he would have drilled Ruth in his ear. Just imagine what he would have done with Bonds standing there at home or Poolie pointing to the sky.

 

Gibson had to bat as a pitcher and was pretty good. It was a different type of game where you took care of things right away.

[TruffleShuffle]

I can understand a fine, but not a suspension. He was angry, but he could have done much worse. No water coolers were hurt, were they? :D Seriously, he could have actually ordered another "hit," and then I'm sure his suspension would be huge taking into account the measures he went to make sure it happened.

 

If MLB started fining and suspending managers for saying inappropriate things, then Dusty would be fined on a weekly basis.

 

As I said before, MLB has suspended pitchers for throwing at batters - whether or not they hit the batter. They also just suspended Joe Torre for a game after Randy Johnson hit a batter - even though it's very clear that Johnson took it upon himself to throw at the batter. Guillen ordered his pitcher to hit a batter. How is that not worth a suspension when a pitcher throwing at a batter is worth one?

[CubRock2]

(faults in a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION MANAGER???? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize him. I'm saying this is going overboard. I myself even said I thought Ozzie was wrong. It's fine to criticize him, but calling him trash just seems a bit excessive.

[CubRock2]

I can understand a fine, but not a suspension. He was angry, but he could have done much worse. No water coolers were hurt, were they? :D Seriously, he could have actually ordered another "hit," and then I'm sure his suspension would be huge taking into account the measures he went to make sure it happened.

 

If MLB started fining and suspending managers for saying inappropriate things, then Dusty would be fined on a weekly basis.

 

As I said before, MLB has suspended pitchers for throwing at batters - whether or not they hit the batter. They also just suspended Joe Torre for a game after Randy Johnson hit a batter - even though it's very clear that Johnson took it upon himself to throw at the batter. Guillen ordered his pitcher to hit a batter. How is that not worth a suspension when a pitcher throwing at a batter is worth one?

 

Yeah, something's wrong with baseball's policy here. Did the Cleveland manager and pitcher get suspended for starting it? Guillen's actions were far more incredulous than Torre's (if he even took action).

[Derwood]

 

As I remember Gibson hit more than 100 batters. Next.

 

Gibson hit 102 batters in 482 career starts, or 1 batter every 4.75 games.

 

Kerry Wood has hit 80 batters in 174 career starts, or 1 batter ever 2.17 games.

 

But Gibson is known as this headhunter while Kerry isn't. See? Stats are fun!

[CubbieRich]

 

As I remember Gibson hit more than 100 batters. Next.

 

Gibson hit 102 batters in 482 career starts, or 1 batter every 4.75 games.

 

Kerry Wood has hit 80 batters in 174 career starts, or 1 batter ever 2.17 games.

 

But Gibson is known as this headhunter while Kerry isn't. See? Stats are fun!

 

If only Wood had 1/2 the pitching ability and control of a Gibson. Wood has lapses where he doesn't know where the ball is going.

 

Stats don't tell the whole story. Or Tuffy Rhodes would be challenging Hank Aaron for the HR title.

[Derwood]

 

As I remember Gibson hit more than 100 batters. Next.

 

Gibson hit 102 batters in 482 career starts, or 1 batter every 4.75 games.

 

Kerry Wood has hit 80 batters in 174 career starts, or 1 batter ever 2.17 games.

 

But Gibson is known as this headhunter while Kerry isn't. See? Stats are fun!

 

If only Wood had 1/2 the pitching ability and control of a Gibson. Wood has lapses where he doesn't know where the ball is going.

 

Stats don't tell the whole story. Or Tuffy Rhodes would be challenging Hank Aaron for the HR title.

 

Um, no. Tuffy Rhodes is an example of sample size. The Wood comparison was just to prove that Gibson didn't have some outrageous number of HBP in his career. People talk about him like he was hitting 3 batters a game and then spitting on their unconcious faces. Many (most) of Wood's were due to poor control, but who is to say that all of Gibson's were on purpose?

[Derwood]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), Al Leiter (#32) and Kenny Rogers (#40)

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How bout it's a 5 page thread because it's big news in baseball. There's a long thread on it over at baseballthinkfactory. Damn those fans and their white sox obsession. Poll up at ESPN, can't that network just get over the White Sox already!!!

 

I think "Ozzie Guillen has a ring so don't criticize him" may be my new most hated internet-ism. Derek Jeter's 6 year reign of "count the ringzzzzzz" has finally ended.

 

Nobody's talking about Ozzie's managing skills now, they're talking about the fact that he's a colossal prick, which has been mathematically proven already. Talking about what a godawful manager Baker is contributes NOTHING to the conversation, beyond the fact that nobody's talking about Guillen's relative skills and faults as a manager,(faults in a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION MANAGER???? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!! BOB BRENLY 4 LYFE) holding managers up to the standard of "at least he's better than Dusty" is going to wind up banning us from criticizing 90% of the managers in baseball.

 

=D>

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Ozzie can kiss my butt.

[gus_dog]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), ...

 

As I recall, Hough was a knuckleballer. Control is always an issue with guys like him. I don't recall if he was known as a "headhunter", or if he just had control issues.

[Derwood]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), ...

 

As I recall, Hough was a knuckleballer. Control is always an issue with guys like him. I don't recall if he was known as a "headhunter", or if he just had control issues.

 

the point is that the "most feared pitcher in baseball history" didn't actually hit that many players

[gus_dog]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), ...

 

As I recall, Hough was a knuckleballer. Control is always an issue with guys like him. I don't recall if he was known as a "headhunter", or if he just had control issues.

 

the point is that the "most feared pitcher in baseball history" didn't actually hit that many players

 

Agreed..., he didn't have to. :wink:

[RynoRules]

Ozzie's actions can be best summed up as "bush league".

[SouthSideRyan]

(faults in a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION MANAGER???? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize him. I'm saying this is going overboard. I myself even said I thought Ozzie was wrong. It's fine to criticize him, but calling him trash just seems a bit excessive.

 

Why? Many people, myself included, feel that this is Guillen's SOP. He's a jerk, he's proven it in the past, and he's still proving it. Just because he happens to manage the White Sox doesn't mean we can't call him trash, such that we can claim some sort of moral high ground on White Sox fans. Trash is trash no matter what uniform they're wearing.

[DanzaSlap]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), Al Leiter (#32) and Kenny Rogers (#40)

 

An anecdote I once heard about Gibson (he's a bit before my time... by about 30 years). I have no idea if it's true or not, but I like it:

 

At Spring Training, a rookie was stepping into the box to face Gibson. The rookie starts digging into the box, and McCarver stops him. "Um, kid, you probably don't wanna do that," he says to the rookie. The rookie steps out of the box, KICKS THE DIRT BACK IN to replace the dirt he dug out. Gibson still drilled him.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), Al Leiter (#32) and Kenny Rogers (#40)

 

An anecdote I once heard about Gibson (he's a bit before my time... by about 30 years). I have no idea if it's true or not, but I like it:

 

At Spring Training, a rookie was stepping into the box to face Gibson. The rookie starts digging into the box, and McCarver stops him. "Um, kid, you probably don't wanna do that," he says to the rookie. The rookie steps out of the box, KICKS THE DIRT BACK IN to replace the dirt he dug out. Gibson still drilled him.

 

I don't get it. Why is this a good thing?

[CubbieRich]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), Al Leiter (#32) and Kenny Rogers (#40)

 

An anecdote I once heard about Gibson (he's a bit before my time... by about 30 years). I have no idea if it's true or not, but I like it:

 

At Spring Training, a rookie was stepping into the box to face Gibson. The rookie starts digging into the box, and McCarver stops him. "Um, kid, you probably don't wanna do that," he says to the rookie. The rookie steps out of the box, KICKS THE DIRT BACK IN to replace the dirt he dug out. Gibson still drilled him.

 

You NEVER dug in against Gibson, because it shows that you were comfortable and would NEVER allow that. If there is a category for intimidating batters, Gibson would be in the Top 10.

 

One story about superstars I have always liked, was when Hank Aaron came to the plate one time in spring training. There was a rookie catcher behind the plate and the catcher looked at Aaron and saw the trademark of his bat was facing up. He told Aaron this and Hank looked back and said: "I didn't come up here to read."

[K-Town]

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), Al Leiter (#32) and Kenny Rogers (#40)

 

An anecdote I once heard about Gibson (he's a bit before my time... by about 30 years). I have no idea if it's true or not, but I like it:

 

At Spring Training, a rookie was stepping into the box to face Gibson. The rookie starts digging into the box, and McCarver stops him. "Um, kid, you probably don't wanna do that," he says to the rookie. The rookie steps out of the box, KICKS THE DIRT BACK IN to replace the dirt he dug out. Gibson still drilled him.

 

You NEVER dug in against Gibson, because it shows that you were comfortable and would NEVER allow that. If there is a category for intimidating batters, Gibson would be in the Top 10.

 

 

Bob Gibson was a great, great pitcher. Assuming that he was able to get hitters out because he intimidated them isn't doing justice to how well he actually pitched.

 

Bob Gibson being a headhunter is a myth that has been embelished quite a bit over the years.

[DanzaSlap]

I don't get it. Why is this a good thing?

 

I just found it amusing.

Bob Gibson ranks 56th all time in career hit batsmen behind other such notable headhunters like Charlie Hough (#5), Al Leiter (#32) and Kenny Rogers (#40)

 

An anecdote I once heard about Gibson (he's a bit before my time... by about 30 years). I have no idea if it's true or not, but I like it:

 

At Spring Training, a rookie was stepping into the box to face Gibson. The rookie starts digging into the box, and McCarver stops him. "Um, kid, you probably don't wanna do that," he says to the rookie. The rookie steps out of the box, KICKS THE DIRT BACK IN to replace the dirt he dug out. Gibson still drilled him.

If Bob Gibson could see the future, he'd have drilled McCarver instead

[DanzaSlap]

If Bob Gibson could see the future, he'd have drilled McCarver instead

 

Don't think there isn't a day that goes by that Gibson doesn't regret it... If Gibby could have done something to save us from his brutal commentating, I think we'd all agree that humanity owes an insurmountable debt to the man.

[bc2k]

Ozzie Guillen is a classman man. Javier Vazquez should have been the pitcher to retaliate. By Vazquez not throwing at a Ranger, and Ozzie not ordering him to, they both send the message that Vazquez is too good for that.

 

If I were AJP or any other hitter on the team, I'd be more upset with Vazquez for putting himself before the 9 guys in the batting lineup. Vazquez watched his catcher get hit with twice, both on the first pitches of his at bats and did nothing to retaliate--not even a brushback pitch. Vazquez continued to pitch as if nothing happened. At least Tracey brushed someone back.