How do you like me now?

[A New Era]

Funny how an infection caused him to miss 2 months of pitching in the major leagues. I like the Kid. But Hendry will be a fool if he relies on Prior as anything more than a #5 next year. That basically means build your pitching staff around ZAMBRANO and a star pitching aquisition. NOT prior.

 

 

Hendry has done and will do A LOT worse things than relying on Mark Prior to be something more than a #5 next year.

 

This makes me sad. :cry:

[RegulusBlue]

If you would like to talk about haters, then you should point at people like me. I could easily be considered a Prior/Wood hater.

 

The job of a starting pitcher is to pitch, and when the pitcher pitches, its expected and often great, if he is a real talent, as both Prior and Wood are. If the pitcher doesn't pitch, he isn't doing his job. Its even more pronounced if he doesn't pitch when getting paid a ton of money, or if we hang our whole season on them, fair or otherwise.

 

Regardless of the litany of reasons, excuses, and arguments, the simple fact is that neither of these men have pitched much for the Cubs this year, and one of them hasn't really done much pitching for the Cubs in the last few years, aside from brief stints on the 15-day non-DL.

 

It makes me very distressed to see our team lose without our best players, because we put our faith in injured pitchers. Its just a health thing with these players, apparently. Zambrano has been the PAP whipping boy the past few years, and is no worse for the wear so far, and Maddux led the team the past two years in IP, and he's still playing, so the ghosts of 2003 are all but gone.

 

Our guys need to win back the people by going out and simply pitching. It doesn't have to be sub-2.5 ERA stuff, but they have to take the mound, and throw the ball. It is, after all, what they get paid to do.

[texascub]

If you would like to talk about haters, then you should point at people like me. I could easily be considered a Prior/Wood hater.

 

The job of a starting pitcher is to pitch, and when the pitcher pitches, its expected and often great, if he is a real talent, as both Prior and Wood are. If the pitcher doesn't pitch, he isn't doing his job. Its even more pronounced if he doesn't pitch when getting paid a ton of money, or if we hang our whole season on them, fair or otherwise.

 

Regardless of the litany of reasons, excuses, and arguments, the simple fact is that neither of these men have pitched much for the Cubs this year, and one of them hasn't really done much pitching for the Cubs in the last few years, aside from brief stints on the 15-day non-DL.

 

It makes me very distressed to see our team lose without our best players, because we put our faith in injured pitchers. Its just a health thing with these players, apparently. Zambrano has been the PAP whipping boy the past few years, and is no worse for the wear so far, and Maddux led the team the past two years in IP, and he's still playing, so the ghosts of 2003 are all but gone.

 

Our guys need to win back the people by going out and simply pitching. It doesn't have to be sub-2.5 ERA stuff, but they have to take the mound, and throw the ball. It is, after all, what they get paid to do.

 

Some of Prior's injuries are totally unavoidable. He couldn't have gotten out of the way of that line drive, and the Giles collision happened so fast that it wasn't very avoidable either. The injury this time is a bit of a mystery to me, but I'm quite happy with the way he's came back. I know that the job of a starter is to start, but if you rush a starter back after an injury you're asking for nothing but trouble and more injuries. Prior's got a long career ahead of him if he's handled properly, so a few bumps and potholes down the road should be expected.

 

Wood's problems IMO stretch back further than 2003, I think they go all the way back to his TJS. Whenever your elbow gets hurt it is a natural tendency to compensate with your shoulder so now he's having shoulder problems.

 

I think more than anything, these are both power pitchers and power pitchers are always at the highest injury risk. Those power sliders and curves do alot of damage to the elbows, and as I mentioned above when elbows hurt most people compensate with their shoulders. If you recall Pedro was suffering from this a little while back, but his mechanics were straightened out before it caused serious damage.

 

Maddux has been able to last so long and pitch so many innings because he always has low pitch counts, but he also doesn't through very hard either. Zambrano is a true marvel IMO, he's one of those throwback types that can seemingly through a CG everytime out and still bounce back without a problem. I don't know how he does it, but it hasn't caught up to him yet and let's hope that it doesn't anytime soon.

[Sosa21MVP]

It's great that Prior had a good start in AAA, but until he is back with the big league club and racking up quality starts I think it is premature to say "in your face" to anyone although I think most Cubs fans do hope for the best for Mark. I don't sense hate, just some doubt.

[Larry Horse]

It's great that Prior had a good start in AAA, but until he is back with the big league club and racking up quality starts I think it is premature to say "in your face" to anyone although I think most Cubs fans do hope for the best for Mark. I don't sense hate, just some doubt.

 

We have a winner......I'll have faith in him when he does it in back-to-back seasons.

 

Hopefully, Hendry's learned his lesson.

[Banedon]

2 things...

 

1) I'm not a Prior hater...but I would still trade him the right deal. But it's a small list. Cabrera, Abreu, A-Rod, Tejada...players of that caliber.

 

2) Kerry Wood had some really good minor league outings as well. It's going to take a few Major League starts (on time) and doing well before I get myself excited. I've been burned too many times.

[Jimy is a misspell]

2 things...

 

1) I'm not a Prior hater...but I would still trade him the right deal. But it's a small list. Cabrera, Abreu, A-Rod, Tejada...players of that caliber.

 

 

Good luck with that.

[Banedon]

2 things...

 

1) I'm not a Prior hater...but I would still trade him the right deal. But it's a small list. Cabrera, Abreu, A-Rod, Tejada...players of that caliber.

 

 

Good luck with that.

 

Hey I didn't say it was likely, and in that case I'm all for keeping Prior. I'm simply saying that if we were to trade Prior, those are the only types of deals that I would include him in.

[macuser1]

If you would like to talk about haters, then you should point at people like me. I could easily be considered a Prior/Wood hater.

 

The job of a starting pitcher is to pitch, and when the pitcher pitches, its expected and often great, if he is a real talent, as both Prior and Wood are. If the pitcher doesn't pitch, he isn't doing his job. Its even more pronounced if he doesn't pitch when getting paid a ton of money, or if we hang our whole season on them, fair or otherwise.

 

Regardless of the litany of reasons, excuses, and arguments, the simple fact is that neither of these men have pitched much for the Cubs this year, and one of them hasn't really done much pitching for the Cubs in the last few years, aside from brief stints on the 15-day non-DL.

 

It makes me very distressed to see our team lose without our best players, because we put our faith in injured pitchers. Its just a health thing with these players, apparently. Zambrano has been the PAP whipping boy the past few years, and is no worse for the wear so far, and Maddux led the team the past two years in IP, and he's still playing, so the ghosts of 2003 are all but gone.

 

Our guys need to win back the people by going out and simply pitching. It doesn't have to be sub-2.5 ERA stuff, but they have to take the mound, and throw the ball. It is, after all, what they get paid to do.

 

What he said. Those guys haven't pitched, yet. We'll see.

 

But my frustration goes beyond Prior/Wood. It generalizes to all of MLB.

 

You see, if I cannot work, I start drawing down sick leave. When that is gone, guess what? It's unpaid leave. So here are these start atheletes who, in a week of not playing, make a multiple of what I make in a year.

I resent it.

Why do I watch? I enjoy watching people who are good at what they do performing up to the peak of their abilties. Even those who have lesser skills are a joy to watch when they try. It's been a while since we have had that opportunity with Prior, hasn't it? I guess I am just envious and spiteful.

 

I refuse to anymore feel any personal loyalty/identity with rich young men who still get paid when they aren't able to do their "work", which after all is playing a game.

 

If this makes me a "hater". so be it.

[Sammy Sofa]

Prior has proven nothing yet.

 

Toby Keith is an insipid mongoloid.

 

This thread stinks.

[bleedcubbieblue]

Now that I'm on my way...Ok sorry for the cheesy country song, but how are those Prior-haters feeling now? So far tonight he's gone 6IP 4H 1 unearned run 9/1 K/BB. That brings his minor league numbers to 18IP 15H 6ER 21/3 K/BB and he's felt great after each start. I know that minor league success doesn't necessarily equal major league success but this is a very good start.

 

Seeing that we are generalizing here, maybe it is a Texas thing? To quote our fearful leader; "you are either with me or against me", and as you can see, there is a lot of wiggle room for debate in there. I guess everyone from Texas has this same mentality?

 

I think I speak for everyone here, we just want to see him pitching for the Cubs every fifth day. It has nothing to do with hating anything or anyone.

 

BCB

[srbin84]

I don't hate Prior, but I don't think he'll ever be able to stay healhty or recapture his 2003 form again, so that is why I want him out.

[Mizzou]

Boy, I'm sure that Prior just loves reading threads like these. Didn't he say at the convention that he had read the "message board stuff?" Way to make him feel like us Cubs fans want him here!

 

Personally, I think it's great that he had a successful outting last night. Correction - a great outting last night. He's one of my favorite Cubs and I can't wait to see him pitch in the majors (hopefully this Sunday against Detroit).

[Sammy Sofa]

Sooooooo...the guy hasn't pitched a start all year in the bigs. Has missed big chunks of the last 2 years, and is consistently on the Dl when the season begins...and people can't be wary or skeptical of how he'll perform?

 

I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't love to see him back and being himself again. I myself would happily stand and applaud him. But until then, I'm gonna wait and see how he's gonna be like when he comes back. And even if he tanks, it's not like I'm "hating" the guy. I'll be disapointed, but hey, that's life. But until he comes back and shows he's at least close to being the old Prior, I'm going to remain skeptical.

 

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

[Banedon]

Boy, I'm sure that Prior just loves reading threads like these. Didn't he say at the convention that he had read the "message board stuff?" Way to make him feel like us Cubs fans want him here!

 

When he's pitching like we all know he can pitch, I don't think there's a person on this board (maybe some people in rivaries..heh) that isn't thrilled that he's on the Cubs. But he's got to be able to stay on the field. That's true whether he's reading this or not.

[srbin84]

Sooooooo...the guy hasn't pitched a start all year in the bigs. Has missed big chunks of the last 2 years, and is consistently on the Dl when the season begins...and people can't be wary or skeptical of how he'll perform?

 

I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't love to see him back and being himself again. I myself would happily stand and applaud him. But until then, I'm gonna wait and see how he's gonna be like when he comes back. And even if he tanks, it's not like I'm "hating" the guy. I'll be disapointed, but hey, that's life. But until he comes back and shows he's at least close to being the old Prior, I'm going to remain skeptical.

 

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

 

Prior:

2004 ERA: 4.02

2005 ERA: 3.67

 

Add to that a loss in velocity, and who knows what he will do. I hope he does well, but I don't see any factual basis for thinking he will. A lot of people don't like Zito because he's put up numbers like Prior has the last two years since he won the Cy Young, but the only difference I see between the two is that Zito never misses a start and is doing it in the AL.

[Mizzou]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

[srbin84]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Well, he had one good season and has pitched like a No. 3/4 starter since then, when he pitches. I don't think a lot of people are expecting to get one of the best pitchers in baseball.

[Banedon]

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Many of us have just been burned to much. I need to be shown more.

[Larry Horse]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

One "very strong outing" in AAA doesn't excite me a whole lot. When I consistently see the Mark Prior of old in the majors, then I'll be excited.

[Mizzou]

Well, he had one good season and has pitched like a No. 3/4 starter since then, when he pitches. I don't think a lot of people are expecting to get one of the best pitchers in baseball.

One good season? Wrong. He had one great season - a Cy Young worthy season. And his other three seasons have all been good. His ERA+ for the past two years is 113 and 116, respectively.

 

And last year, before he got hurt in June, his numbers were ridiculous - an ERA around 2, a WHIP around 1, and a BAA below .200. Oh, and a 4:1 K to BB ratio (These numbers were rounded after looking at his month by month stats). Is it safe to say that he would have maintained these numbers over the course of the season? Not necessarily. But I do think it's safe to say that his season totals would have been much closer to these than the ones he put up after returning from injury.

 

Prior's good - real good - he's just got to stay healthy.

 

Many of us have just been burned to much. I need to be shown more.

Can't argue with that.

[bleedcubbieblue]

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Kerry Wood has made us this way.

 

And not to rain on the parade, unless things turn around quickly, it is nice that he is coming back, but it looks like it may be too little too late. This season is pretty much in the toilet, and the reasons for this is pretty much trusting that Wood and Prior would be here anchoring the rotation. Instead, they always seem to be on the shelf. I know that is not their fault that they are hurt, but to think I am going to be completely excited about his return when this season is in the tank is wrong.

 

Even if he comes back strong and wins 12-15 games, what makes one think that he will be healthy enough again next time spring training comes around? I thought with a shortened season last year, with a long offseason, he would be coming back strong for this year, but after almost 3 months into this season, I was wrong. Don't have a lot of confidence about next year.

 

Isn't "next year", is what being a Cub fan is all about? Well I have been thru quite a few of them now, and to quote Brokeback, for our friend who started this thread, "I wish I could quit them", but I can't.

 

BCB

Edited June 14, 2006 by bleedcubbieblue

[David]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Well, he had one good season and has pitched like a No. 3/4 starter since then, when he pitches. I don't think a lot of people are expecting to get one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

In what world is Prior's 3.67 ERA (quoting you) of 2005 the stuff of a 3/4 starter (without even mentioning the fact that he pitched more half the season after taking a line drive to the elbow)?

[srbin84]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Well, he had one good season and has pitched like a No. 3/4 starter since then, when he pitches. I don't think a lot of people are expecting to get one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

In what world is Prior's 3.67 ERA (quoting you) of 2005 the stuff of a 3/4 starter (without even mentioning the fact that he pitched more half the season after taking a line drive to the elbow)?

 

In the starts he has made the last two years, his ERA is 3.80. I can't see how that is any better than a No. 3.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Well, he had one good season and has pitched like a No. 3/4 starter since then, when he pitches. I don't think a lot of people are expecting to get one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

In what world is Prior's 3.67 ERA (quoting you) of 2005 the stuff of a 3/4 starter (without even mentioning the fact that he pitched more half the season after taking a line drive to the elbow)?

 

In the starts he has made the last two years, his ERA is 3.80. I can't see how that is any better than a No. 3.

 

Because if every team had 2 starters that were better, his ERA would have to be ranked in the 60-90 range. It's much better than that. He was 30th last year and would have tied for 34th (with Dontrelle) in 2004 had he pitched enough innings to qualify.