How do you like me now?

[srbin84]

Implying that everyone should be nicey-nice and lovey-dovey because a player MIGHT check the board is ridiculous. He's a grown man. I'm sure he wants to pitch great infinitely more than the rest of us want to see it. But I'm also assuming he realizes he does have something to prove. That's just the nature of the game. If he doesn't realize that, well, he's in trouble.

Right, because that's exactly what I meant to imply.

 

After a very strong outting from Prior last night, I expected to come here and read positive things about it. Instead, I read three pages of mainly negative posts about the situation. One of the best pitchers in baseball is either ready or almost ready to join our rotation... that's a big deal and something to get excited about, especially considering that the Cubs haven't given us a whole lot to get excited about this year. I just expected a more positive attitude I guess.

 

Well, he had one good season and has pitched like a No. 3/4 starter since then, when he pitches. I don't think a lot of people are expecting to get one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

In what world is Prior's 3.67 ERA (quoting you) of 2005 the stuff of a 3/4 starter (without even mentioning the fact that he pitched more half the season after taking a line drive to the elbow)?

 

In the starts he has made the last two years, his ERA is 3.80. I can't see how that is any better than a No. 3.

 

Because if every team had 2 starters that were better, his ERA would have to be ranked in the 60-90 range. It's much better than that. He was 30th last year and would have tied for 34th (with Dontrelle) in 2004 had he pitched enough innings to qualify.

 

He'd be the No. 2 on the D-Rays, maybe even the ace of the Royals. He'll probably even be our No. 2 if can put up a 3.80 ERA. It was implied that I was talking about on a good team, not a last place one.

[RynoRules]

I love Mark. I love his grit and intensity on the mound, and the fact that he wears his hose old-school. That said, I am tremendously frustrated by the fact that he hasn't pitched and we have less than 100 games left.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He'd be the No. 2 on the D-Rays, maybe even the ace of the Royals. He'll probably even be our No. 2 if can put up a 3.80 ERA. It was implied that I was talking about on a good team, not a last place one.

 

So, he's a 3/4 only on select teams?

[srbin84]

He'd be the No. 2 on the D-Rays, maybe even the ace of the Royals. He'll probably even be our No. 2 if can put up a 3.80 ERA. It was implied that I was talking about on a good team, not a last place one.

 

So, he's a 3/4 only on select teams?

 

I can't believe you are even arguing this. What you're saying is that Scott Elarton is a No. 1.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He'd be the No. 2 on the D-Rays, maybe even the ace of the Royals. He'll probably even be our No. 2 if can put up a 3.80 ERA. It was implied that I was talking about on a good team, not a last place one.

 

So, he's a 3/4 only on select teams?

 

I can't believe you are even arguing this. What you're saying is that Scott Elarton is a No. 1.

 

How am I saying that? You're saying that Prior's 3.80 ERA is the makings of a 3/4 when the numbers clearly do not support that claim. Scott Elarton's ERA over that timeframe is over 5.

[srbin84]

He'd be the No. 2 on the D-Rays, maybe even the ace of the Royals. He'll probably even be our No. 2 if can put up a 3.80 ERA. It was implied that I was talking about on a good team, not a last place one.

 

So, he's a 3/4 only on select teams?

 

I can't believe you are even arguing this. What you're saying is that Scott Elarton is a No. 1.

 

How am I saying that? You're saying that Prior's 3.80 ERA is the makings of a 3/4 when the numbers clearly do not support that claim. Scott Elarton's ERA over that timeframe is over 5.

 

That's why bad pitching rotations are not taken into account because guys like Scott Elarton are No. 1's on those teams. They just dilute the average. Look at any good rotation, and you will find two guys with lower ERAs than 3.80.

[cubfan1955]

It's great that Prior had a good start in AAA, but until he is back with the big league club and racking up quality starts I think it is premature to say "in your face" to anyone although I think most Cubs fans do hope for the best for Mark. I don't sense hate, just some doubt.

 

We have a winner......I'll have faith in him when he does it in back-to-back seasons.

 

Hopefully, Hendry's learned his lesson.

I'll have faith in him when he can make it through a spring training just once. I am, however, hoping for the best from him and not hating him.

[Soul]

Again, low standards.

 

Expecting people to jump for joy at their ace pitcher still toiling in AAA in mid June is completely unrealistic.

 

Fans who want to win know better: Prior must be with the team and producing from April through September or we're going to be right where we are now. Out of the race and looking at a Summer full of games with no playoff implications.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That's why bad pitching rotations are not taken into account because guys like Scott Elarton are No. 1's on those teams. They just dilute the average. Look at any good rotation, and you will find two guys with lower ERAs than 3.80.

 

Zambrano is a #4 at best because 3 of Houston's starters had lower ERA's last year.

[David]

The point is that if you go by the average major league pitcher (not these extremes that you want to take it to), Prior over the last two years is definitely better than a 3 or 4.

 

EDIT - This reply was directed at srbin84, not Is Pedro There.

Edited June 14, 2006 by David

[Derwood]

Here is a list with the number of starting pitchers (min. 7 starts) who have an ERA of 3.80 or under this year:

 

ARZ - 1
ATL - 2
BAL - 0
BOS - 1
CHC - 1
CHW - 2
CIN - 1
CLE - 1
COL - 2
DET - 4
FLA - 1
KC -  0
LAA - 2
LAD - 3
MIL - 1
MIN - 1
NYM - 2
NYY - 1
OAK - 2
PIT - 0
PHI - 1
SD  - 1
SF  - 2
SEA - 1
STL - 1
TB  - 1
TEX - 0
TOR - 2
WSH - 2

[David]

In other words, according to this season's stats (so far), a 3.80 ERA would, on average, be about what you'd expect from a #2 starter (1.34 pitchers per team w/better ERAs), correct?

[srbin84]

In other words, according to this season's stats (so far), a 3.80 ERA would, on average, be about what you'd expect from a #2 starter (1.34 pitchers per team w/better ERAs), correct?

 

You're standards are low though. If you have a rotation of the league average ERA at every spot, you don't have a good rotation and likely will not be in the playoffs.

[David]

In other words, according to this season's stats (so far), a 3.80 ERA would, on average, be about what you'd expect from a #2 starter (1.34 pitchers per team w/better ERAs), correct?

 

You're standards are low though. If you have a rotation of the league average ERA at every spot, you don't have a good rotation and likely will not be in the playoffs.

 

My standards are not low. My definition of a #2 starter is what would be determined to be a #2 starter based on the league's talent pool.

 

That doesn't mean I don't want 5 #1's on my team.

[bleedcubbieblue]

Now that I'm on my way...Ok sorry for the cheesy country song, but how are those Prior-haters feeling now? So far tonight he's gone 6IP 4H 1 unearned run 9/1 K/BB. That brings his minor league numbers to 18IP 15H 6ER 21/3 K/BB and he's felt great after each start. I know that minor league success doesn't necessarily equal major league success but this is a very good start.

 

Well if you are going to call people out after a good start at triple A, I would think it is only fair to come back after a bad outing at the major league level?

 

I can tell you no one wanted to see him do badly his first outing, but give people a little more credit then expecting things to turn around instantly once these injured guys come back from injury. The problem is that it takes time to get going once back, and as you can see from Wood, and now Prior, it is going to take some time, something this team ran out of last month. Expect the same from D Lee when he comes back.

 

Anyone still believe the "well Houston did it last year" stuff?

 

BCB

Edited June 19, 2006 by bleedcubbieblue

[Soul]

Now that I'm on my way...Ok sorry for the cheesy country song, but how are those Prior-haters feeling now? So far tonight he's gone 6IP 4H 1 unearned run 9/1 K/BB. That brings his minor league numbers to 18IP 15H 6ER 21/3 K/BB and he's felt great after each start. I know that minor league success doesn't necessarily equal major league success but this is a very good start.

 

Well if you are going to call people out after a good start at triple A, I would think it is only fair to come back after a bad outing a the major league level?

 

I can tell you no one wanted to see him do badly his first outing, but give people a little more credit then expecting things to turn around instantly once these injured guys come back from injury. The problem is that it takes time to get going once back, and as you can see from Wood, and now Prior, it is going to take some time, something this team ran out of last month. Expect the same from D Lee when he comes back.

 

Anyone still believe the "well Houston did it last year" stuff?

 

BCB

 

No. I said it in May when this whole thing turned south, and and I'll say it again now: the '05 Astros had an actual decent ballclub even when they were losing. I'll guarantee anyone right now, guys like Neifi, Bynum, Hairston-----never would have made their roster either now or then.

 

This Cub team was always going to be marginal. I just didn't realize it would be this bad. But once it went down the tubes, there wasn't the ballclub to pull it back like the '05 Stros. The fact that Hendry, MacPhail, and Baker believed it could just proves they've lost their way.