yanks getting old in a hurry

[goonys evil twin]

How do inherited runners increase his ERA? I see that total runs are higher when there are runners on, but they wouldn't be Kyle's earned runs. Or am I missing something?

 

Why are they necessarily inherited runners? Those runners could have been given up by him.

[UBlink]

How do inherited runners increase his ERA? I see that total runs are higher when there are runners on, but they wouldn't be Kyle's earned runs. Or am I missing something?

 

Why are they necessarily inherited runners? Those runners could have been given up by him.

 

Maybe I'm confused - I was reading the split as appearances where he came in with runners on base and appearances where he came in with bases empty. If the split is based on the status of the bases at each at-bat, then I agree it's totally meaningless. I thought I might be missing something.

[goonys evil twin]

Wow, Mike and the Mad Dog are really giving it to Cashman (about Farnsworth) in an interview on WFAN/YES right now. It's kind of interesting to hear a GM have the guts to sit through something like this and come back with logical reasonable replies and not just talk about needing more timely hits and better breaks.

[sunnydoo]

Remember the Glendon Rusch thing in 2004? Yea, that looked like a good idea too.

huh? 2004 when he was coming off fighting Estes for the honor of being the worst pitcher in the National League in the previous year?

 

He was 6-2 with a 3.47 ERA, and 2 saves.

 

That is why Hendry extended him. Nevermind that his lifetime ERA 4.88 or that his previous best was a 4.01.

 

The point was one season does not make you a good or even decent pitcher.

[goonys evil twin]

Remember the Glendon Rusch thing in 2004? Yea, that looked like a good idea too.

huh? 2004 when he was coming off fighting Estes for the honor of being the worst pitcher in the National League in the previous year?

 

He was 6-2 with a 3.47 ERA, and 2 saves.

 

That is why Hendry extended him. Nevermind that his lifetime ERA 4.88 or that his previous best was a 4.01.

 

The point was one season does not make you a good or even decent pitcher.

 

Are you using this to talk about Farnsworth? Because he's had more than one good season.

[sunnydoo]

While I understand the point you're trying to make, isn't it inherently more difficult to have high ERA when there is no one on base? I bet if you pulled a lot of pitchers stats, you would see something similar. Perhaps not as extreme as these numbers, but the same trend. I agree with you to a point, but the example you used may not be the best.

Exactly.

 

That was one of the absolute worst use of statistics, ever.

 

Oh so you're saying he tends to give up more runs when the bases are loaded versus none on? Hmm. Whoda thunk it. :roll:

 

 

Well you guys kind of got it, but kind of missed it. It is a question of degree. Obviously any idiot can tell your ERA will go up with the more people on base. But how far it goes up is the 2nd question de jour, behind save/blown save %. Generally your late inning relievers are coming in in a jam with runners all over the place. So the RISPs are very very importante.

 

                 Farns       Howry            Rivera       Remlinger
Bases Empty       2.49         2.20            0.91            1.79
Runners On         6.56        4.86             3.98            6.07
RISP               8.43        6.53             5.22            8.45
RISP w/ 2 Outs    16.13       13.21           9.40           15.96
Bases Loaded       8.82        5.87            9.61            10.95

 

The reason i selected the 4 pitchers was Howry is the replacement for the Cubs, Rivera is the closer from the Yanks, and Remlinger is very comparable to Kyle albeit from the other side of the plate.

 

For my money, I want numbers like Howry's for my relief pitchers. generally 2 or lower in BE, around 5 for RO, below 7.50 for RISP, and as close to 10 on the RISP w/ 2 Outs as possible.

 

Is it arbitrary? Yea. But interpretation is 1/2 the battle. Hendry cant even do that.

Edited June 2, 2006 by sunnydoo

[NewUserName]

About the Yankees. They are in danger of becoming the 3rd best in their division this yr and by next year lucky to be a .500 team. They really havent made good decisions the last couple of yrs. That and a dried up minor league system has left them old, way overpaid and tired. I think their payroll will always keep them competitive but they are nowhere near being a WS contending team.

[SoonerCubFan]

He had great seasons with Cubs coaching too, so that's not an excuse.

 

He had one great season with Oscar Acosta, who seemed to get a lot out of a lot of guys.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Wow, Mike and the Mad Dog are really giving it to Cashman (about Farnsworth) in an interview on WFAN/YES right now. It's kind of interesting to hear a GM have the guts to sit through something like this and come back with logical reasonable replies and not just talk about needing more timely hits and better breaks.

It must be nice to have some interviewers actual hold a GM's feet to the fire.

[davearm]

How do inherited runners increase his ERA? I see that total runs are higher when there are runners on, but they wouldn't be Kyle's earned runs. Or am I missing something?

 

Why are they necessarily inherited runners? Those runners could have been given up by him.

 

Maybe I'm confused - I was reading the split as appearances where he came in with runners on base and appearances where he came in with bases empty. If the split is based on the status of the bases at each at-bat, then I agree it's totally meaningless. I thought I might be missing something.

Guys look at those numbers again. But focus just on the last three:

 

G ERA WHIP BAA

Bases Empty: 2.49 1.46 .247

Runners On: 6.49 1.34 .245

RISP: 8.32 1.50 .250

RISP w/2 Outs: 16.13 1.67 .250

Bases Loaded: 8.82 1.47 .317

 

The WHIP and BAA numbers are staying fairly constant across the different situations. So he's allowing baserunners at roughly the same rate, and hitters are batting for a similar AVG.

 

Meanwhile the ERA nearly triples as runners get on, and then jumps some more as they get to scoring position... even though he's getting the hitter out at about the same rate.

[sunnydoo]

The WHIP and BAA numbers are staying fairly constant across the different situations. So he's allowing baserunners at roughly the same rate, and hitters are batting for a similar AVG.

 

Meanwhile the ERA nearly triples as runners get on, and then jumps some more as they get to scoring position... even though he's getting the hitter out at about the same rate.

 

First, there is quite a bit of difference between 1.67 and 1.34.

 

Second, Howry's WHIP goes off at 1.25/1.17/1.27/1.50 and 1.24. That is a huge difference between the Farn's numbers. Farn's simply walks too many people.

 

And he blew yet another save tonight. His teammates helped him out in the 9th or he may have needed an escort on the way back to Yankeeland.

[Careless]

Remember the Glendon Rusch thing in 2004? Yea, that looked like a good idea too.

huh? 2004 when he was coming off fighting Estes for the honor of being the worst pitcher in the National League in the previous year?

 

He was 6-2 with a 3.47 ERA, and 2 saves.

 

That is why Hendry extended him. Nevermind that his lifetime ERA 4.88 or that his previous best was a 4.01.

 

The point was one season does not make you a good or even decent pitcher.

Oh, Glendon in 2005. Yeah, that was bad. There was actually some SABR support for the resigning, interestingly.

[davearm]

The WHIP and BAA numbers are staying fairly constant across the different situations. So he's allowing baserunners at roughly the same rate, and hitters are batting for a similar AVG.

 

Meanwhile the ERA nearly triples as runners get on, and then jumps some more as they get to scoring position... even though he's getting the hitter out at about the same rate.

 

First, there is quite a bit of difference between 1.67 and 1.34.

 

Second, Howry's WHIP goes off at 1.25/1.17/1.27/1.50 and 1.24. That is a huge difference between the Farn's numbers. Farn's simply walks too many people.

 

And he blew yet another save tonight. His teammates helped him out in the 9th or he may have needed an escort on the way back to Yankeeland.

Thanks for proving my point sunny.

 

This year Howry sports a 1.05 WHIP and 0.68 ERA with the bases empty; his WHIP is actually a hair lower with RISP (1.04), but his ERA jumps all the way to 7.04.

 

Has he pitched over 10x worse with RISP than with nobody on? You tell me. Looking strictly at the ERA #s suggests he has.

[sunnydoo]

Has he pitched over 10x worse with RISP than with nobody on? You tell me. Looking strictly at the ERA #s suggests he has.

 

no. the ERA increases because of inherited runners. Kyle's WHIP has gone up as has ERA, although the average has stayed the same. That shows wildness.

 

 

and Mr Wang saved the game today. Of course Kyle had pitched 5 straight days and it was time for a day off. But we will see if Wang comes back to close or the Farns stays closer until Rivera gets back.

[bleedcubbieblue]

hopefully they collapse.

 

Did a little mining this morning, I certainly wish the Cubs looked as old as the Yankees do right now! :lol:

 

BCB

[YearofDaCubs]

Cashman is overrated. I don't know if Steinbrenner tells him who to sign but they signed 2nd rate pitchers for first rate money and now it's hurting them.

[fromthestretch]

Has he pitched over 10x worse with RISP than with nobody on? You tell me. Looking strictly at the ERA #s suggests he has.

 

no. the ERA increases because of inherited runners. Kyle's WHIP has gone up as has ERA, although the average has stayed the same. That shows wildness.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument here, but inherited runners count against the ERA of the pitcher who put them on base in the first place. They do not count against the ERA of the pitcher who inherited them.

 

As for his number of blown saves over his career, I'd be curious to know how many of them actually came when he was being used to close the game as opposed to coming in to face a hitter or two in the seventh or eighth inning. I hate the fact that a guy can come into the middle of a game - everyone knowing that he's not in there to finish the game, but rather just face a hitter or two or maybe just pitch one inning - and still get charged with a blown save.

[stitchface]

hopefully they collapse.

 

Did a little mining this morning, I certainly wish the Cubs looked as old as the Yankees do right now! :lol:

 

BCB

If the season ended today, even with their recent hot streak, they would not be in the playoffs. Either way, they are getting old.

[soccer10k]

hopefully they collapse.

 

Did a little mining this morning, I certainly wish the Cubs looked as old as the Yankees do right now! :lol:

 

BCB

If the season ended today, even with their recent hot streak, they would not be in the playoffs. Either way, they are getting old.

 

They're only 0.5 games behind the Red Sox in the AL East (tied in the loss column) and only 2.5 games behind the White Sox in the Wild Card (2 back in the loss column). They're definately not done yet.

[stitchface]

hopefully they collapse.

 

Did a little mining this morning, I certainly wish the Cubs looked as old as the Yankees do right now! :lol:

 

BCB

If the season ended today, even with their recent hot streak, they would not be in the playoffs. Either way, they are getting old.

 

They're only 0.5 games behind the Red Sox in the AL East (tied in the loss column) and only 2.5 games behind the White Sox in the Wild Card (2 back in the loss column). They're definately not done yet.

 

no, but they are getting old. when was the last time anyone questioned if they would be in the playoffs in late july?

[BigSlick]

hopefully they collapse.

 

Did a little mining this morning, I certainly wish the Cubs looked as old as the Yankees do right now! :lol:

 

BCB

If the season ended today, even with their recent hot streak, they would not be in the playoffs. Either way, they are getting old.

 

They're only 0.5 games behind the Red Sox in the AL East (tied in the loss column) and only 2.5 games behind the White Sox in the Wild Card (2 back in the loss column). They're definately not done yet.

 

no, but they are getting old. when was the last time anyone questioned if they would be in the playoffs in late july?

 

I'm surprised we might be talking about the BRAVES back in the postseason, along with the ANGELS!

 

This has been a whacky season. I can only hope the A's hold on, and thats something they aren't used to. They like looking up at teams in the standings and nipping them in the butt...not holding off teams.

[bleedcubbieblue]

 

no, but they are getting old. when was the last time anyone questioned if they would be in the playoffs in late july?

 

Last year? Thru June the Yanks went into July with a record of 39-38, they went 17-9 in July, but there was a lot of doubt about if they would be making the playoffs after the first 3 months. After July, they were 9 games over, which is similar to where they are now, but overall, right now, they are in better shape record wise than they were a year ago. The Yanks have had a lot of injuries this year, and they are still making out quite well.

 

I would still take their postion over the Cubs any day of the year!

 

BCB