Pfft. Speedy Lead-Off Man Indeed...

[Caryatid]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

Of course, in a perfect world you want a guy who is fast AND gets on base at a high clip. But, if its one or the other, OBP is CLEARLY more valuable than speed. A guy with Youklis' eye and Pierre's speed would be one of the most valuable players in the league. Unfortunately, the Cubs have no one like that, and there are so few in the league that you usually have to choose between one or the other. Choosing Pierre was the wrong one.

[Cubzfan64]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

We both agree that Pierre has to get on base more, but as far as Youkilis goes, he was shoved into the position of being a leadoff hitter when Crisp went down and other than striking out too often and having little speed, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. As far as Ortiz and Manny are concerned, neither of them are setting the world on fire right now. Manny has been pretty much equivalent to our own A Ramirez and although Ortiz has plenty of RBI's which is great, his average isn't where it should be either.

 

Manny has been significantly better than Aramis thus far.

 

I guess it's up to personal opinion as to what "significant" means.

 

A Ram - 25 R, 9 HR, 24 RBI

M Ram - 27 R, 11 HR, 29 RBI

 

Considering one plays for a 2nd to last place team and the other plays for a 1st place team, Manny doesn't qualify as being "significantly" better in my book.

[rocket]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

We both agree that Pierre has to get on base more, but as far as Youkilis goes, he was shoved into the position of being a leadoff hitter when Crisp went down and other than striking out too often and having little speed, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. As far as Ortiz and Manny are concerned, neither of them are setting the world on fire right now. Manny has been pretty much equivalent to our own A Ramirez and although Ortiz has plenty of RBI's which is great, his average isn't where it should be either.

 

Manny has been significantly better than Aramis thus far.

 

I guess it's up to personal opinion as to what "significant" means.

 

A Ram - 25 R, 9 HR, 24 RBI

M Ram - 27 R, 11 HR, 29 RBI

 

Considering one plays for a 2nd to last place team and the other plays for a 1st place team, Manny doesn't qualify as being "significantly" better in my book.

 

Average? OBP? SLG?

[imb]

AVG with men on first and second and two outs in the seventh inning on a 2-1 count against a lefty throwing sliders at night?

[3finger]

Of course, in a perfect world you want a guy who is fast AND gets on base at a high clip. But, if its one or the other, OBP is CLEARLY more valuable than speed. A guy with Youklis' eye and Pierre's speed would be one of the most valuable players in the league. Unfortunately, the Cubs have no one like that, and there are so few in the league that you usually have to choose between one or the other. Choosing Pierre was the wrong one.

 

Career OBP/SLG/OPS:

 

Patterson .293/.414/.707

Pierre .355/.375/.730

 

Hendry thought he was improving CF by bringing Pierre on. Pierre isn't a great player, but the numbers said he should have been an improvement over Patterson, especially in OBP. So maybe acquiring Pierre made sense.

 

Or maybe not. JP amassed most of his stats at Watery Domestic Beer Field, which in pre-humidor days had a steroidal effect on offensive stats. Adjusted for park effects, Patterson's career OPS going into 2006 was 81% of the league average, which is pretty bad. Pierre's adjusted OPS was 87%.

 

More of Pierre's value is in on-base rather than slugging, and his steals give him some extra bases not reflected in his OPS, so he has some leadoff value. However, he was never likely to play more than a supporting role.

[PujolsPower]

Of course, in a perfect world you want a guy who is fast AND gets on base at a high clip. But, if its one or the other, OBP is CLEARLY more valuable than speed. A guy with Youklis' eye and Pierre's speed would be one of the most valuable players in the league. Unfortunately, the Cubs have no one like that, and there are so few in the league that you usually have to choose between one or the other. Choosing Pierre was the wrong one.

Rickey Henderson might be available, and would probably have a higher OB%.

[Productive Outs]

interesting little tidbit

 

pierre's gotten on base 54 times and scored 24 times.

 

youklis has gotten on 85 times and scored 33 times.

 

youklis has 10 more extra base hits than pierre, and has manny & ortiz behind him.

 

i think it can be argued that when pierre does get on he's more likely to score. NOW GET ON BASE JUAN!

 

We both agree that Pierre has to get on base more, but as far as Youkilis goes, he was shoved into the position of being a leadoff hitter when Crisp went down and other than striking out too often and having little speed, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. As far as Ortiz and Manny are concerned, neither of them are setting the world on fire right now. Manny has been pretty much equivalent to our own A Ramirez and although Ortiz has plenty of RBI's which is great, his average isn't where it should be either.

 

Manny has been significantly better than Aramis thus far.

 

I guess it's up to personal opinion as to what "significant" means.

 

A Ram - 25 R, 9 HR, 24 RBI

M Ram - 27 R, 11 HR, 29 RBI

 

Considering one plays for a 2nd to last place team and the other plays for a 1st place team, Manny doesn't qualify as being "significantly" better in my book.

 

Manny: 8.6 RC/G, 9 Win Shares

Aramis: 3.9 RC/G, 4 Win Shares

 

this is my favorite Aramis stat: HR/F - 11.7%

 

edit: i forgot about VORP!

 

through 5/28/06:

 

Manny: 19.4

Aramis: 1.7

Edited May 29, 2006 by Productive Outs

[Soul]

Got to get on base before speed can make a difference.

 

.268 obp, that's all you need to know. And I'm sick of leadoff hitters who don't know how to take a walk. Ridiculous.

[cheapseats]

Rickey Henderson might be available, and would probably have a higher OB%.

 

And a higher SLG, too. Rickey had a career .820 OPS.

 

Right now the highest OPS of a Cubs OF is .786.

 

Rickey's 2003 > Pierre's 2006.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs have a pretty good leadoff hitter right now.

 

His name is Todd Walker.

 

Too bad he'll probably never sniff that spot again for Chicago and will be stupidly dumped after this season.

 

Idiot Cubs.

[BigSlick]

The Cubs have a pretty good leadoff hitter right now.

 

His name is Todd Walker.

 

Too bad he'll probably never sniff that spot again for Chicago and will be stupidly dumped after this season.

 

Idiot Cubs.

 

GAH!

 

OBP is probably the most important stat in a hitter. Why is there such antagonism towards the walk!?

[KaiserCesar]

The Cubs have a pretty good leadoff hitter right now.

 

His name is Todd Walker.

 

Too bad he'll probably never sniff that spot again for Chicago and will be stupidly dumped after this season.

 

Idiot Cubs.

 

GAH!

 

OBP is probably the most important stat in a hitter. Why is there such antagonism towards the walk!?

 

I'm sure if there was a guy who could run and walk, we'd all be happy.

[BigSlick]

The Cubs have a pretty good leadoff hitter right now.

 

His name is Todd Walker.

 

Too bad he'll probably never sniff that spot again for Chicago and will be stupidly dumped after this season.

 

Idiot Cubs.

 

GAH!

 

OBP is probably the most important stat in a hitter. Why is there such antagonism towards the walk!?

 

I'm sure if there was a guy who could run and walk, we'd all be happy.

 

Well there are some, but they just cost a lot.

[PujolsPower]

Rickey still walks and can probably run relatively fast. Isn't he around the same age as Julio Franco.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs have a pretty good leadoff hitter right now.

 

His name is Todd Walker.

 

Too bad he'll probably never sniff that spot again for Chicago and will be stupidly dumped after this season.

 

Idiot Cubs.

 

GAH!

 

OBP is probably the most important stat in a hitter. Why is there such antagonism towards the walk!?

 

And the odds of getting them on this team are ridicuously bad. I think with the options out there, Walker more than fits the bill, and cheaply. He has proven success in that spot.

 

I'm sure if there was a guy who could run and walk, we'd all be happy.

 

Well there are some, but they just cost a lot.

[BigbadB]

The big question. Can Kerry Wood catch Pierre in the RBI race?

[cubfan1955]

The big question. Can Kerry Wood catch Pierre in the RBI race?

Next start.

[neely crenshaw]

#1 we need to cheer very hard for pierre, so that he can be dealt atthe deadline and maybe we can get some prospects beck for the ones we gave up.

#2 don't just compare manny and aram...how about ortiz vs everyone else on the cubs? we have the worst ba with guys in scoring postition! how many runs do you think youklis would have with us? let's see 5 homes runs = 5, obp .431= 2 more runs for us. so he might have 7 runs!~