Cuban for Owner and Bob for Manager next year

[goonys evil twin]

What's with all of the Bobby V love around here? Look at the talent on the Mets teams he had, then look at their records. He drove that team into the ground. If I had to choose between Valentine and Baker, and someone was pointing a gun to my head, I'd ask what was behind door number 3.

 

If you want a former Mets manager, find Davey Johnson, and throw money at him until he can't say no (if he has a price, Davey Johnson might be one of those RARE people that doesn't...).

 

How long of a contract did Girardi sign?

 

Met talent? Are you kidding. Look at that 2001 team, the one following the world series. Zeille as the starting 1B, Payton, Agbayani and Perez the starting OF (that's Cubs esque), worthless Rey Ordonez at short. An already in decline Alfonzo. Kevin Appier, Glendon Rusch, Steve Trachsel, Bruce Chen. I think it's a miracle he got them to .500.

 

He won 88, 88, 97 and 94 in his first 4 years, and that was with the pathetic Steve Phillips as GM.

 

He never had a stud pitcher. His best position player was Piazza, whose best days were behind him. Ventura and Alfonzo were probably his 2nd and 3rd best position players while he was there.

 

Valentine managed the pants off of Baker in the 2000 playoffs, watching it game by game was amazing to see how far ahead of Dusty he was. Dusty was getting guys up in the pen way too late, and Valentine exploited every bad move. You rarely see that in baseball.

[Jehrico]

What's with all of the Bobby V love around here? Look at the talent on the Mets teams he had, then look at their records. He drove that team into the ground. If I had to choose between Valentine and Baker, and someone was pointing a gun to my head, I'd ask what was behind door number 3.

 

If you want a former Mets manager, find Davey Johnson, and throw money at him until he can't say no (if he has a price, Davey Johnson might be one of those RARE people that doesn't...).

 

How long of a contract did Girardi sign?

 

Met talent? Are you kidding. Look at that 2001 team, the one following the world series. Zeille as the starting 1B, Payton, Agbayani and Perez the starting OF (that's Cubs esque), worthless Rey Ordonez at short. An already in decline Alfonzo. Kevin Appier, Glendon Rusch, Steve Trachsel, Bruce Chen. I think it's a miracle he got them to .500.

 

He won 88, 88, 97 and 94 in his first 4 years, and that was with the pathetic Steve Phillips as GM.

 

He never had a stud pitcher. His best position player was Piazza, whose best days were behind him. Ventura and Alfonzo were probably his 2nd and 3rd best position players while he was there.

 

Valentine managed the pants off of Baker in the 2000 playoffs, watching it game by game was amazing to see how far ahead of Dusty he was. Dusty was getting guys up in the pen way too late, and Valentine exploited every bad move. You rarely see that in baseball.

Piazza past his prime? Piazza was putting up OPSs of 1.024, .936, 1.012, .957, and .903 for Bobby V. If those weren't his prime years, then he didn't have a prime. He also had Alphonso in his prime (OBPs of .391, .355, .425, .322, .391). Alphonso started sucking once he got to SF. He got an average OPS of .800 from Ventura while he was there. Zeile was only there for two years, and they got OBPs of over .350 from him both times. He had almost St Louis type of luck when he got guys on the downside of their careers. Heck, he brought in Ricky Henderson when he was 40 and got a .423 OBP and nearly a .900 OPS out of him. They were getting better production than you could expect from many of their guys. I would have called him fortunate.

 

You want to slam the outfields he had with Agbayani, Payton, and Perez. Agbayani, the three years he started for them, put up OBPs of .363, .391, and .364. Jay Payton was a failed prospect (if you want to knock Dusty and his staff for not developing our kids, what prospects did Bobby V and his staff develop into successful players that stuck in the league for awhile?), and Timo Perez was only a part time starter. Part of that does go back on Phillips for not having solid corner OFers, but Bobby V didn't do much either.

 

If you want to give Bobby V credit for going to the series, Dusty almost did the same thing (save for the Bartman, and more importantly, the Gonzo plays) with a lineup laden with an equal number of fringe baseball players.

 

You want to give him a pass for having a no-talent lineup that started guys like Rey Ordonez...if I were a Mets fan, I would have blamed him for trotting Rey Ordonez out there game after game just like I do Dusty when Neifi gets out there consistantly. And maybe he didn't have a stud pitcher like a Schilling or Johnson, but he had Leiter during his best years, and Leiter was very effective during his prime. He got some great years out of Trachsel too. He didn't have the greatest rotations, but he got consistancy and didn't deal with nearly as many injury issues as we've had.

 

He had no control over his teams, and led the Mets to a train wreck that last season. They were as bad fundamentally as Bakers. There's a reason no one has made a move to bring him back into a clubhouse since he was fired from NY. I don't want him anywhere near this team.

 

Bobby V = Dusty part deux.

Edited May 27, 2006 by Jehrico

[Fro]

There has to be someone out there somewhere managing, probably several people in fact, who are brilliant managers and exactly what we need.

 

It's just a matter of doing the proper search instead of just going after a retread name or promoting some clown from within the organization.

[USSoccer]

Valentine is a very good manager. I'd be thrilled if he came here.

 

Plus, we'd get to see film clips of time time he wore a fake nose/moustache combo in the dugout after he was run from a game.

[Warpticon]

Since when did the sacrifice bunt and the hit and run become something bad? Yeah, when overdone its a bad thing, but if you are a run ahead with your ace on the mound (and assuming the Cubs have a BARISP greater than .125, which they don't), then a sacrifice in the right situation isn't a bad thing. Dusty's use of it is laughable, that much I give you. And remember, Dusty relied on the Earl Weaver three run homer method in the past, and that didn't work either. This team would do better under a better manager, but would still suck because half the team sucks. I can name maybe six or eight players to keep...and ship out the rest.

 

You have to have two men on to hit a three run homer.