Jacque Jones: Can We Trade him for Corey Patterson?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm not sure if I'd prefer Patterson or Jones, but I would rather have Patterson than Pierre right now.

[Derwood]

to answer someone's question from 2734 pages back about naming a player who got doubled off of 2nd as many time as Jacque.....does Moises Alou ring a bell? Jones has a ways to go to usurp the title of "Worst Cubs Baserunner in Recent History" from Alou

[sethuel1]

I still can't believe that he followed up his baserunning blunder by faking like he was going to throw the warmup ball into the bleachers and then tossing it to Pierre to throw.

[Sammy Sofa]

OK, throwing stuff at the guy is inexcusable. I don't care how bad he is, that's just pathetic behavior.

 

That said, this thread was obviously started out of frustration. Yes, plenty of other people on this team are bad right now. But the majority of them are slumping/pressing bad...how many of them have done something as blatantly stupid as getting doubled off of base 3 times in 2 weeks? Something that dumb is going to get you more attention on a board like this.

[RynoRules]

Whoa. Jones almost got hit in the face by a fan in the RF bleachers:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260516116

 

She probably had a better arm than Jacque.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somebody had to say it.

 

I know you are being sarcastic, but this is not funny and reflects badly on all of us. What's worse, she's clearly guilty of aggravated assualt and attempted battery, yet she will not be charged. Thus, this is likely to happen again.

[JC]

Whoa. Jones almost got hit in the face by a fan in the RF bleachers:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260516116

 

She probably had a better arm than Jacque.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somebody had to say it.

 

I know you are being sarcastic, but this is not funny and reflects badly on all of us. What's worse, she's clearly guilty of aggravated assualt and attempted battery, yet she will not be charged. Thus, this is likely to happen again.

 

C'mon, its still funny. Lets not pretend that every little thing presented on this message board encourages further ill behavior.

[goonys evil twin]

I know you are being sarcastic, but this is not funny and reflects badly on all of us. What's worse, she's clearly guilty of aggravated assualt and attempted battery, yet she will not be charged. Thus, this is likely to happen again.

 

How is she clearly guilty? Doesn't aggravated assault actually require some sort of actual assault?

 

Two bad things come out of this situation.

 

A) The stupid fan makes other fans look bad.

 

B) Now the Jones apologists are trying to shift the discussion off of his horrendous play (mediocre hitting, brutal base running and poor defense add up to horrendous play) and onto fan treatment.

 

There was next to no mention of his indefensible baserunning gaffe when Mike & Mike talked about this situation this morning. And the vast majority of the Jones talk in the papers this morning was about the idiot fan, and not his repeated pick-offs. I have yet to read or hear what Baker had to say about the pick-off, if he had anything to say at all.

 

In short, I hate that fan for giving a bad name to drinking and having fun at the ballpark, for making Cubs fans look like idiots and for taking away from the conversation that should be going on, which is Jones costing his team with his pathetic baserunning.

[LoneStarCubFan]

Unless you're pouring a beer on Lenny Dykstra or Jim Edmonds, there is absolutely no excuse for throwing anything at a player.

 

I cannot believe the Cubs didn't press charges against this drunk skank. She should be banned from Wrigley for life.

 

And people need to lay the hell off of Jones and stop acting like he's the only guy who has ever been doubled off base in a game. It happens. Especially when a team is slumping and people are trying to make things happen. You take chances and sometimes they backfire.

 

Where was Chris Speier in that situation? Why are the Cubs collectively playing like the dumbest team in baseball for the third year in a row? Hint: It's not because of Jacque Jones.

[JC]

 

There was next to no mention of his indefensible baserunning gaffe when Mike & Mike talked about this situation this morning.

 

Mike & Mike are very much baseball nimrods. As much as anyone in ESPN, they are strictly Yankee/Red Sox followers.

 

That being said, they had what I thought was a great interview with Jim Leyland this morning as well.

[goonys evil twin]

And people need to lay the hell off of Jones and stop acting like he's the only guy who has ever been doubled off base in a game.

 

Give me a freaking break.

 

 

Seriously, this is absurd.

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

[JC]

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I'll go with the easy answer: Alou

[goonys evil twin]

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I'll go with the easy answer: Alou

 

Was it 3 times in 2 weeks? I know it was often, but this frequently? Regardless, he's not on the Cubs anymore.

 

This idiotic defense of Jones by saying he's not the only one doing bad things is utterly ridiculous.

[srbin84]

I know you are being sarcastic, but this is not funny and reflects badly on all of us. What's worse, she's clearly guilty of aggravated assualt and attempted battery, yet she will not be charged. Thus, this is likely to happen again.

 

How is she clearly guilty? Doesn't aggravated assault actually require some sort of actual assault?

 

Assault includes threats and attempts to do bodily harm to someone. It becomes aggravated if it more serious than a common assault, so it's kind of open to interpretation.

[Derwood]

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I'll go with the easy answer: Alou

 

We agree. And Jones can't come close to then # of check swing, accidental grounders to short that Alou hit. That said, Jones is not nearly as productive as Alou was.

 

In summary, Jones is a younger, left-handed version of Alou who is not as good. But it's not all his fault. I still put more blame on Pierre and Ramirez. The leadoff and cleanup hitters should be more productive than the #6/#7 hitter is in any lineup.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Derwood

[JC]

I know you are being sarcastic, but this is not funny and reflects badly on all of us. What's worse, she's clearly guilty of aggravated assualt and attempted battery, yet she will not be charged. Thus, this is likely to happen again.

 

How is she clearly guilty? Doesn't aggravated assault actually require some sort of actual assault?

 

Assault includes threats and attempts to do bodily harm to someone. It becomes aggravated if it more serious than a common assault, so it's kind of open to interpretation.

 

Is this the statutory definition in Illinois?

[LoneStarCubFan]

And people need to lay the hell off of Jones and stop acting like he's the only guy who has ever been doubled off base in a game.

 

Give me a freaking break.

 

 

Seriously, this is absurd.

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I give you Moises Alou who, I believe, was making a hell of a lot more money at the time than Jones is now.

 

Was it a good idea to give him 16 mil over three years? No. Is that Jones' fault? No.

 

Would you rather have Jeromy Burnitz stumbling around in RF? I know I wouldn't.

 

The only problem with Jones is that our idiot manager isn't smart enough to realize he should only be playing against right-handed pitching. One of the 350 second basemen we have on the roster should platoon with him in RF. Play Hairston against lefties and Jones against righties.

 

And ban that drunk skank from Wrigley for life.

[JC]

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I'll go with the easy answer: Alou

 

Was it 3 times in 2 weeks? I know it was often, but this frequently? Regardless, he's not on the Cubs anymore.

 

This idiotic defense of Jones by saying he's not the only one doing bad things is utterly ridiculous.

 

I think it was over a month. Maybe two.

 

Regardless, I think your point stands. 1) Who would want to be compared with Alou when it comes to baserunning?, and 2) That is two out of how many players over the last couple of years? Not great odds.

[RynoRules]

I know you are being sarcastic, but this is not funny and reflects badly on all of us. What's worse, she's clearly guilty of aggravated assualt and attempted battery, yet she will not be charged. Thus, this is likely to happen again.

 

How is she clearly guilty? Doesn't aggravated assault actually require some sort of actual assault?

 

Two bad things come out of this situation.

 

A) The stupid fan makes other fans look bad.

 

B) Now the Jones apologists are trying to shift the discussion off of his horrendous play (mediocre hitting, brutal base running and poor defense add up to horrendous play) and onto fan treatment.

 

There was next to no mention of his indefensible baserunning gaffe when Mike & Mike talked about this situation this morning. And the vast majority of the Jones talk in the papers this morning was about the idiot fan, and not his repeated pick-offs. I have yet to read or hear what Baker had to say about the pick-off, if he had anything to say at all.

 

In short, I hate that fan for giving a bad name to drinking and having fun at the ballpark, for making Cubs fans look like idiots and for taking away from the conversation that should be going on, which is Jones costing his team with his pathetic baserunning.

 

No offense, but with regard to what is an "assualt" and what is a "battery" under the law in IL, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Assault is the act of putting another person in imminent fear of being on the receiving end of a battery. A battery is any unwanted and harmful touching. "Aggravating factors" include the use of a weapon (like a stick or gun) or projectile (like a baseball). Thus, the bleacher lady appears to have been guilty of aggravated assault and attempted battery. It is also likely that she was guilty of drunk and disorderly conduct.

 

Now that my legal treatise is at an end, let me be clear on my opinion. I am not a Jones apologist. If it had happened to Murton, my opinion would have been the same. The fans have the absolute right to boo Jones all they want, and given his penchant for mental gaffes, they should. But she crossed the line, and should be held responsible for her actions.

 

In sum, I agree with your last paragraph.

[NCCubFan]

Would you rather have Jeromy Burnitz stumbling around in RF? I know I wouldn't.

If it's one year of Burnitz stumbling vs. three years of Jones, yes I would rather have Burnitz.

[srbin84]

IMO, this is not a funny incident at all. I play hockey, and I got hit in the face with a slap shot about 6 months ago. It's probably worse than what Jones would have got, but it's a very messy, terrible injury to have.

[goonys evil twin]

And people need to lay the hell off of Jones and stop acting like he's the only guy who has ever been doubled off base in a game.

 

Give me a freaking break.

 

 

Seriously, this is absurd.

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I give you Moises Alou who, I believe, was making a hell of a lot more money at the time than Jones is now.

 

So you're excuse for Jones getting picked off 3 times in 2 weeks is that Alou ran poorly when he was a Cub? Like I said, absurd.

 

This pathetic excuse making for Jones is absolutely absurd.

[Derwood]

can we please refrain from calling this woman a "fan". Fans don't assault people. She's a thug

[goonys evil twin]

can we please refrain from calling this woman a "fan". Fans don't assault people. She's a thug

 

We could refrain, but it would probably be inaccurate. Fans assault people. It makes them a jerk, but it doesn't mean they aren't fans. Maybe we should just refrain from pretending all fans are great and that everything should be done with the fan in mind. I don't know anything about this person. As far as you or I know she really could have been a hardcore fan who went too far. She's an idiot, and she may be a fan. I don't see the point in taking away the fan label because of what she did. That just insinuates that no fans can be idiot jerks, which just isn't true.

[DesMoinesCub]

My first reaction was that this is something that happened would happen on the South side, not Wrigley. No excuses can be made for this person's actions.

 

That being said, Jones' baserunning deserves to be booed. That is it. Not a ball thrown at them, not being verbally abused, booed. Unfortunately, the fan in this case is taking away from the attention that should be directed at Jones' poor baserunning. However, because some idiot threw a ball at him, we are spending more time talking about the fan and the incident then what we should be talking about...baseball on the field.

 

I am not making excuses for Jones, but how does this reflect on the fans of the Cubs. Are people going to want to come and play for a team whose fans throw things at them when they do poorly?

[goonys evil twin]

My first reaction was that this is something that happened would happen on the South side, not Wrigley. No excuses can be made for this person's actions.

 

That being said, Jones' baserunning deserves to be booed. That is it. Not a ball thrown at them, not being verbally abused, booed. Unfortunately, the fan in this case is taking away from the attention that should be directed at Jones' poor baserunning. However, because some idiot threw a ball at him, we are spending more time talking about the fan and the incident then what we should be talking about...baseball on the field.

 

I am not making excuses for Jones, but how does this reflect on the fans of the Cubs. Are people going to want to come and play for a team whose fans throw things at them when they do poorly?

 

Maybe poor players won't want to play?

 

Let's not pretend this is the first time the hometown fans have thrown something at a hometown player.

 

This person was a complete idiot. And it does reflect poorly on Cubs fans. But let's keep some perspective here.