General Manager vs Manager

[Outshined_One]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

Edited May 14, 2006 by Outshined_One

[Soul]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

Now he's got an awful ballclub and an empty minor league system.

 

He's blown his wad. No more cards to play and nothing to show for it.

 

Hendry's dogmeat. And we're stuck with this turkey for years more. What a mess.

[Outshined_One]

Now he's got an awful ballclub and an empty minor league system.

 

He's blown his wad. No more cards to play and nothing to show for it.

 

Hendry's dogmeat. And we're stuck with this turkey for years more. What a mess.

 

I'd debate the awful minor league system part of this post, but that's pretty much to be expected of me considering the amount of work I put into it.

 

What angers me more than anything is that Hendry has had a very rough track record of dealing prospects and young players when it comes to properly assessing their value. Jason Dubois was a pretty good hitting prospect down in AAA, then came up and wasted away on the bench. He eventually was traded for a hobbled OF, who was traded for a scrappy steroid user, who was traded for a slightly older Low A high groundball pitcher. Hendry waited until Dubois' value was at its lowest until he finally got around to trading him.

 

In other situations, he comes to a point where he can no longer hold guys on the roster and trades them away. It comes to a point where it's either trade the guy away or let him go for nothing. In most cases...it might as well be both. Clint Brannon has 4.2 IP under his belt. Zach McCormack is MIA. Lincoln Holdzkom has appeared in only 4 games. Matt Ciaramella is old for Low A and not hitting well. We all shudder at the name of Andy Pratt. Richard Lewis couldn't adjust to AAA.

 

It just annoys me that he has all of these prospects who receive some degree of hype and show some nice talent...but then proceeds to screw up by being indecisive with them until they have no value whatsoever. These guys get yo-yoed back and forth between the majors and minors, don't see much playing time, rot on the bench, and basically never can get into a consistent groove because they don't see the field all that often. After that, they pretty much lose any perceived value they once had.

 

Yes, some of these guys might have been talentless bums. But there once was a point when they were worth more than what they were traded for. Hendry never struck while the iron was hot by either getting those guys consistent playing time or by trading them while their value was still high.

 

That's precisely what the minor league players are for...yet Hendry and Dusty seem to have a hard time understanding this.

[CubfaninCA]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

[YearofDaCubs]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

[CubfaninCA]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

 

true. his last big strike was murton.

 

i think gm's are more wary of him now & don't want their trade to be Lee or Aram for a pile of garbage part III.

[David]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

 

true. his last big strike was murton.

 

i think gm's are more wary of him now & don't want their trade to be Lee or Aram for a pile of garbage part III.

 

Funny how a similar wariness doesn't keep Beane from doing it.

[CubfaninCA]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

 

true. his last big strike was murton.

 

i think gm's are more wary of him now & don't want their trade to be Lee or Aram for a pile of garbage part III.

 

Funny how a similar wariness doesn't keep Beane from doing it.

 

what big strike has he made recently?? frank thomas? DL Bradley? Antonio Perez?

 

who'd he get for hudson & mulder again?

[YearofDaCubs]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

 

true. his last big strike was murton.

 

i think gm's are more wary of him now & don't want their trade to be Lee or Aram for a pile of garbage part III.

 

Funny how a similar wariness doesn't keep Beane from doing it.

 

what big strike has he made recently?? frank thomas? DL Bradley? Antonio Perez?

 

who'd he get for hudson & mulder again?

Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas for Hudson

Dan Haren, Kiko Calero (has been very good), and Daric Barton. (potential to be real good)

 

Looks like Atlanta fleeced the A's but Cardinals did give up a good amount of talent.

[soccer10k]

Win totals for Oakland since 1998 (their last losing season) starting with 1999: 87, 91, 102, 103, 96, 91, 88 for an average of 94 per year which includes 3 division titles and 1 wild card appearance. Yup, that would suck to be a fan of a winning team every year. Don't try to say that the A's haven't won anything in the postseason. The fact is that they win. Whatever Beane is doing it works and works well.

[YearofDaCubs]

Win totals for Oakland since 1998 (their last losing season) starting with 1999: 87, 91, 102, 103, 96, 91, 88 for an average of 94 per year which includes 3 division titles and 1 wild card appearance. Yup, that would suck to be a fan of a winning team every year. Don't try to say that the A's haven't won anything in the postseason. The fact is that they win. Whatever Beane is doing it works and works well.

Look at their payroll and look at the talent they have on their team. Swisher, Crosby, Chavez, Bradley, Street, Calero, Harden, and Zito. That's pretty impressive. Beane knows what he's doing.

[CubfaninCA]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

 

true. his last big strike was murton.

 

i think gm's are more wary of him now & don't want their trade to be Lee or Aram for a pile of garbage part III.

 

Funny how a similar wariness doesn't keep Beane from doing it.

 

what big strike has he made recently?? frank thomas? DL Bradley? Antonio Perez?

 

who'd he get for hudson & mulder again?

Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas for Hudson

Dan Haren, Kiko Calero (has been very good), and Daric Barton. (potential to be real good)

 

Looks like Atlanta fleeced the A's but Cardinals did give up a good amount of talent.

 

think he met his match in schuerholtz. haren's era is 5.00 this year. calero's at a respectable 4.15.

 

perhaps he should have kept one of his arms and not put a bunch of money into kendall. and how about kotsay $7 million? payton $4 million? Loazia $6 million?

 

beane's ability to draft really well will probably save the organization from his poor moves.

[YearofDaCubs]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

he should get a tons of credit for dealing off choi for lee. that was pretty controversial.

Hendry isn't an absolute monkey. He has done some good with his trades back then. Unfortunately, he hasn't done squat recently.

 

true. his last big strike was murton.

 

i think gm's are more wary of him now & don't want their trade to be Lee or Aram for a pile of garbage part III.

 

Funny how a similar wariness doesn't keep Beane from doing it.

 

what big strike has he made recently?? frank thomas? DL Bradley? Antonio Perez?

 

who'd he get for hudson & mulder again?

Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas for Hudson

Dan Haren, Kiko Calero (has been very good), and Daric Barton. (potential to be real good)

 

Looks like Atlanta fleeced the A's but Cardinals did give up a good amount of talent.

 

think he met his match in schuerholtz. haren's era is 5.00 this year. calero's at a respectable 4.15.

 

perhaps he should have kept one of his arms and not put a bunch of money into kendall. and how about kotsay $7 million? payton $4 million? Loazia $6 million?

 

beane's ability to draft really well will probably save the organization from his poor moves.

Those are pretty bad contracts. Loaiza? That was a huge stretch there. You're right, Beane is far from perfect.

[CubfaninCA]

Win totals for Oakland since 1998 (their last losing season) starting with 1999: 87, 91, 102, 103, 96, 91, 88 for an average of 94 per year which includes 3 division titles and 1 wild card appearance. Yup, that would suck to be a fan of a winning team every year. Don't try to say that the A's haven't won anything in the postseason. The fact is that they win. Whatever Beane is doing it works and works well.

 

who's trying to say that?

[Careless]

Yes, there's been a drop since 2003, but what isn't being mentioned is that everything went right in 2003 and the team overachieved. Prior & Wood actually didn't get hurt. The Cubs pulled some reliever from the Mexican League, or wherever he was, and he was a stud. Patterson was awesome until he got hurt, then Lofton came in and played like a young man. Farnsworth was real good. Remlinger was solid, etc.....

 

Altogether, Hendry inherited a pile of crap team in 2002, and people got their expectations way too high in 2004. His biggest mistake is not firing Baker after last year cause Baker's on his way to ruining this season.

Pulled him right off the 2002 roster. what a pickup!

[soccer10k]

Win totals for Oakland since 1998 (their last losing season) starting with 1999: 87, 91, 102, 103, 96, 91, 88 for an average of 94 per year which includes 3 division titles and 1 wild card appearance. Yup, that would suck to be a fan of a winning team every year. Don't try to say that the A's haven't won anything in the postseason. The fact is that they win. Whatever Beane is doing it works and works well.

 

who's trying to say that?

 

I got the impression you were:

 

what big strike has he made recently?? frank thomas? DL Bradley? Antonio Perez?

 

who'd he get for hudson & mulder again?

 

If I misinterpreted that statement I apologize.

[CubfaninCA]

Win totals for Oakland since 1998 (their last losing season) starting with 1999: 87, 91, 102, 103, 96, 91, 88 for an average of 94 per year which includes 3 division titles and 1 wild card appearance. Yup, that would suck to be a fan of a winning team every year. Don't try to say that the A's haven't won anything in the postseason. The fact is that they win. Whatever Beane is doing it works and works well.

 

who's trying to say that?

 

I got the impression you were:

 

what big strike has he made recently?? frank thomas? DL Bradley? Antonio Perez?

 

who'd he get for hudson & mulder again?

 

If I misinterpreted that statement I apologize.

 

no problem. i just can't recall beane really swindling some gm recently. oakland lives off that farm system. props to beane for that.

[RynoRules]

Refresh my memory, did Jim Hendry make a cursory offer towards Brian Giles this offseason, or did he just completely blow the man off?

 

Also, the Lee deal was heavily based on circumstances. Remember, Florida was originally going to trade him to Baltimore when the deal fell through at the last minute. Hendry decided to swoop in at that moment and made a trade. He should get credited for his timing, but I do have to wonder how lucky he got.

 

I mean, cripes, the man didn't roster Andy Sisco because he wanted to send Sisco a message, only to have it blow up in his face. While Sisco is sucking wind this season, he was one of the most talented and promising pitchers in this system. He let him go for nothing.

 

How about the great deals he got for Todd Wellemeyer, Bear Bay, Jason Dubois, Juan Cruz, Jermaine Van Buren, John Koronka, and Jon Leicester?

 

Yech.

 

Holy cow! I am actually killing Hendry for just about evrything he has done the last two years (including much of what you cited above)!!! I just don't like the argument that what he has done well (Lee, ARam, Nomar) has been a simple product of circumstance and that he essentially "happened to be there". Why can't I be balanced in my assessment? I doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

[srbin84]

Dusty is a bad manager, but Hendry deserves more blame. His unwillingness to trade propects until their value has gone down, and his unwillingness to overpay to make immediate, impact moves when they are needed have killed this team year after year.

[Monco]

Dusty is a bad manager, but Hendry deserves more blame. His unwillingness to trade propects until their value has gone down, and his unwillingness to overpay to make immediate, impact moves when they are needed have killed this team year after year.

I agree except with the last part.He did overpay for Pierre and Jones.He should not have to overpay for a player in the offseason. Maybe at the deadline to put you over.

[srbin84]

Dusty is a bad manager, but Hendry deserves more blame. His unwillingness to trade propects until their value has gone down, and his unwillingness to overpay to make immediate, impact moves when they are needed have killed this team year after year.

I agree except with the last part.He did overpay for Pierre and Jones.He should not have to overpay for a player in the offseason. Maybe at the deadline to put you over.

 

Right now is yet another example. Hendry needs to make a deal for offense. He needed to three weeks ago.