Hendry, Wood, Prior (& Dusty) Theory

[Scott G. F.]

If Wood and Prior come back and pitched well Dusty gets an extention and we Cubs fans suffer longer. Wood and Prior (and I believe Hendry) are stalling their come backs and letting the case to fire Dusty get stronger (Prior is ailing from unheard of illnesses now). There is enough season left for a new manager to come in and take the reigns of this underacheieveing team and make the playoffs and even the World Series.

 

Enter Lou Piniella. He's sitting around doing nothing here in Tampa. Let there be no doubt that he IS the answer to the Cubs WS appearence. Lou was put into a losing situation here in Tampa and made the best out of it. In Chicago, I believe his brand of managing will spark this current Cubs team. Lou has fire and passion. Dusty looks like he's sleeping (which infuriates me!). Lou has won the WS before not just got there!

 

I predict the Cubs will fire DB by May 21 and replace him with Lou Piniella.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Scott G. F.

[goonys evil twin]

I highly doubt Wood and Prior are stalling to get Dusty fired. And I doubt even more that Lou is the answer to our WS prayers.

[Scott G. F.]

I highly doubt Wood and Prior are stalling to get Dusty fired. And I doubt even more that Lou is the answer to our WS prayers.

 

Noted

[soapy]

I find it hard to believe (the Wood, Prior, Hendry conspiracy theory). I have to believe if the team continues to suffer, it puts Hendry on the hot seat as well. He's the guy who brought in Pierre and Jones and was depending on Wood and Prior to be healthy in the first place, not Dusty.

 

Also, Lou isn't much different from Dusty philosophy-wise. No thanks.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Davey Johnson > Lou Piniella.

[Scott G. F.]

Davey Johnson > Lou Piniella.

 

Vance,

I like DJ too. But seeing what Lou brought to the D-Rays and what he did with less then nothing impressed me since it was local.

 

It is true Lou like vets too but Tampa didn't have many of them and he worked with that.

 

The Cubs need fire and passion not a surfer '"dude you gotta do better man" attitude.

 

Ozzie G of the White Sox sparked his team. I say Lou would do the same for the Cubs.

[goonys evil twin]

But seeing what Lou brought to the D-Rays and what he did with less then nothing impressed me since it was local.

 

What did he bring them besides anger? They sucked and never took a step forward.

[SouthSideRyan]

Did I miss something? What did Piniella do with the D-Rays?

 

Dusty > Piniella

[Scott G. F.]

But seeing what Lou brought to the D-Rays and what he did with less then nothing impressed me since it was local.

 

What did he bring them besides anger? They sucked and never took a step forward.

 

I disagree. Look at the D Rays record during his stint. They improved. They cleaned the riff-raff off the books. He didn't have pithcing which is there problem now along with unwilling to make a deal or spend money. which is why Lou left, the D Rays promised to spend more on the team and they didn't, he go out. Enter Joe Madden (who?).

[NorthsideAvenger]

If Wood and Prior come back and pitched well Dusty gets an extention and we Cubs fans suffer longer. Wood and Prior (and I believe Hendry) are stalling their come backs and letting the case to fire Dusty get stronger (Prior is ailing from unheard of illnesses now). There is enough season left for a new manager to come in and take the reigns of this underacheieveing team and make the playoffs and even the World Series.

 

Enter Lou Piniella. He's sitting around doing nothing here in Tampa. Let there be no doubt that he IS the answer to the Cubs WS appearence. Lou was put into a losing situation here in Tampa and made the best out of it. In Chicago, I believe his brand of managing will spark this current Cubs team. Lou has fire and passion. Dusty looks like he's sleeping (which infuriates me!). Lou has won the WS before not just got there!

 

I predict the Cubs will fire DB by May 21 and replace him with Lou Piniella.

 

Why do we want the WHITE version of Dusty Baker?

 

I'd rather see if Valentin could be gotten. If not...I like Larry Bowa for the SHORT-TERM, and perhaps Chris Speier for the long-term.

[Scott G. F.]

Did I miss something? What did Piniella do with the D-Rays?

 

Dusty > Piniella

 

With the D Rays he brought more a winning attitude then before.

Now with the Reds he won the World Series. In Seattle he took them, year in and year out, to the playoff's, tieing the best regular season win total in baseball ever.

[srbin84]

I like the idea of getting Lou Piniella. He brings the intensity and fire that this team needs. He is the complete opposite of Dusty Baker. Instead of making excuses for his players, he puts them in line and is a no nonsense kind of guy. Making the argument that he wouldn't be a good hire because of his record in TAMPA BAY is flat out laughable.

[goonys evil twin]

Did I miss something? What did Piniella do with the D-Rays?

 

Dusty > Piniella

 

With the D Rays he brought more a winning attitude then before.

Now with the Reds he won the World Series. In Seattle he took them, year in and year out, to the playoff's, tieing the best regular season win total in baseball ever.

 

More of a winning attitude? They won 63, 70 and 67 games under his watch. That's no better than what Larry Rothschild did down there. Yes, in Cincy he won the World Series, 16 years ago. And he didn't get back to the playoffs.

 

He was in Seattle for 10 seasons and went to the playoffs 4 times, not year in year out as you claim (sounds like how Dusty claims his record looks). He had 2 of the greatest players in baseball history for 7+ seasons and the most dominant starter in the AL during that era. Not to mention he had the greatest DH ever. He had loads of talent to work with for several years.

 

Then, he figured he couldn't get his team to the promised land and left for more money and a less stressful environment. He's 63 years old and melted down in Tampa.

[RynoRules]

The only reason I like the Piniella idea is b/c I believe that one of this team's problems is that they make a lot of b.s. excuses for themselves (enabled by Baker). For certain, Lou would not put up with that.

 

And in terms of comparing Lou to Davey Johnson, let's be fair: Johnson's WS title was 20 years ago, and he had several chances with very talented Baltimore teams in the 90's.

 

EDIT: Apologies. He had two chances with talented Balt teams in the 90's:

 

1997 AL East 98-64 (.605) DIV 1 Davey Johnson

1996 AL East 88-74 (.543) WC 2 Davey Johnson

 

 

And two more with two Dodgers teams that were less talented:

 

2000 NL West 86-76 (.531) 2 Davey Johnson

1999 NL West 77-85 (.475) 3 Davey Johnson

 

He still had tons more talent than Lou did in TB. Neither guy is a perfect fit, IMO.

Edited May 11, 2006 by RynoRules

[Big Fergie J]

Davey Johnson > Lou Piniella.

 

I agree with this call.

 

IMHO, I don't see The Trib making this move. I think they will make a push for Bobby Valentine, who I believe has 1 year left on his Chiba Lotte Marines contract.

 

For some reason I believe management will be influenced by how well The White Sox did with Guillen and go for a manager that is a little fiery.....but not Piniella

[srbin84]

Did I miss something? What did Piniella do with the D-Rays?

 

Dusty > Piniella

 

With the D Rays he brought more a winning attitude then before.

Now with the Reds he won the World Series. In Seattle he took them, year in and year out, to the playoff's, tieing the best regular season win total in baseball ever.

 

More of a winning attitude? They won 63, 70 and 67 games under his watch. That's no better than what Larry Rothschild did down there. Yes, in Cincy he won the World Series, 16 years ago. And he didn't get back to the playoffs.

 

He was in Seattle for 10 seasons and went to the playoffs 4 times, not year in year out as you claim (sounds like how Dusty claims his record looks). He had 2 of the greatest players in baseball history for 7+ seasons and the most dominant starter in the AL during that era. Not to mention he had the greatest DH ever. He had loads of talent to work with for several years.

 

Then, he figured he couldn't get his team to the promised land and left for more money and a less stressful environment. He's 63 years old and melted down in Tampa.

 

He was managing a AAA team in Tampa. Everything else he has done is great. When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes. The Cubs are the perfect example of this type of team. They are a lazy team because of their manager, so they need someone who will not take any crap and put them in line when they make a mistake instead of kissing their butt and telling them it's ok and everything is gonna be alright.

[Laura]

When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes.

 

That's part of the reason they brought in Dusty after Don Baylor (& Bruce Kimm).

 

They figured Dusty wouldn't have arguements with players via the media.

[Scott G. F.]

Did I miss something? What did Piniella do with the D-Rays?

 

Dusty > Piniella

 

With the D Rays he brought more a winning attitude then before.

Now with the Reds he won the World Series. In Seattle he took them, year in and year out, to the playoff's, tieing the best regular season win total in baseball ever.

 

More of a winning attitude? They won 63, 70 and 67 games under his watch. That's no better than what Larry Rothschild did down there. Yes, in Cincy he won the World Series, 16 years ago. And he didn't get back to the playoffs.

 

He was in Seattle for 10 seasons and went to the playoffs 4 times, not year in year out as you claim (sounds like how Dusty claims his record looks). He had 2 of the greatest players in baseball history for 7+ seasons and the most dominant starter in the AL during that era. Not to mention he had the greatest DH ever. He had loads of talent to work with for several years.

 

Then, he figured he couldn't get his team to the promised land and left for more money and a less stressful environment. He's 63 years old and melted down in Tampa.

 

63. 70 and 67 regarding the D Rays is good.

 

10 Years in Seattle 4 playoffs. Better then any any Cubs manager. I'd take it. Most dominate starter? Wood, Prior, Zambo under LP could be even better.

 

I hate the DB excuses and spin. I hate when personal and professional responsibility are through out the window. Lou wouldn't put up with that and put the fire into this team.

 

It's needed.

[Scott G. F.]

When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes.

 

That's part of the reason they brought in Dusty after Don Baylor (& Bruce Kimm).

 

They figured Dusty wouldn't have arguements with players via the media.

 

In hind-site it's kind of funny now isn't it?

[goonys evil twin]

And in terms of comparing Lou to Davey Johnson, let's be fair: Johnson's WS title was 20 years ago, and he had several chances with very talented Baltimore teams in the 90's.

 

Johnson's was 20 and Lou's was 16. So what? They were both very long ago. And Johnson was with Baltimore for 2 years. His first year he improved the team by 17 wins and won the wild card. He got 10 more wins in his 2nd year, when Baltimore won 98. He was 2-2 in playoffs series with Bmore, then he was gone, when Angelos's overpaid bunch of over the hill veterans disintigrated. He did not have "several chances". He finished 1st or 2nd in 12 of 14 seasons as a manager, a lot of which took place before the 3 division and wild card format made that easier to accomplish. Lou was 1st or 2nd 8 of 19 times and had a lot of 3, 4 and 5th place finishes during the 3 division era. Davey also had a higher winning percentage.

 

I'm not sure it's possible to say definitively which manager was better, but Johnson had more success.

[srbin84]

When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes.

 

That's part of the reason they brought in Dusty after Don Baylor (& Bruce Kimm).

 

They figured Dusty wouldn't have arguements with players via the media.

 

Well, that's not the kind of reason I was talking about. In all sports, the philosophy of following coddling managers with disciplinarians has been proven to be a successful one.

[srbin84]

And in terms of comparing Lou to Davey Johnson, let's be fair: Johnson's WS title was 20 years ago, and he had several chances with very talented Baltimore teams in the 90's.

 

Johnson's was 20 and Lou's was 16. So what? They were both very long ago. And Johnson was with Baltimore for 2 years. His first year he improved the team by 17 wins and won the wild card. He got 10 more wins in his 2nd year, when Baltimore won 98. He was 2-2 in playoffs series with Bmore, then he was gone, when Angelos's overpaid bunch of over the hill veterans disintigrated. He did not have "several chances". He finished 1st or 2nd in 12 of 14 seasons as a manager, a lot of which took place before the 3 division and wild card format made that easier to accomplish. Lou was 1st or 2nd 8 of 19 times and had a lot of 3, 4 and 5th place finishes during the 3 division era. Davey also had a higher winning percentage.

 

I'm not sure it's possible to say definitively which manager was better, but Johnson had more success.

 

Of course he did. He coached much better teams. What did you expect from those Tampa teams: .500 record........playoffs?!?

[Scott G. F.]

When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes.

 

That's part of the reason they brought in Dusty after Don Baylor (& Bruce Kimm).

 

They figured Dusty wouldn't have arguements with players via the media.

 

Well, that's not the kind of reason I was talking about. In all sports, the philosophy of following coddling managers with disciplinarians has been proven to be a successful one.

 

I believe that too. I believe that's why the pitching coach Acosta was fired during the Baylor years and pissed off Wood. Wood responds to a challenge or being called out by his manager. I believe so do alot of the Cubs current players. They are not, ARE NOT responding to the coddling that DB is doing.

[CubinNY]

When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes.

 

That's part of the reason they brought in Dusty after Don Baylor (& Bruce Kimm).

 

They figured Dusty wouldn't have arguements with players via the media.

 

Well, that's not the kind of reason I was talking about. In all sports, the philosophy of following coddling managers with disciplinarians has been proven to be a successful one.

 

Data please.

 

The Cubs don't need a disciplinarian, they need a guy who can fillout a lineup card, manage a pitching staff, and properly handle a 25 man roster.

[goonys evil twin]

He was managing a AAA team in Tampa. Everything else he has done is great. When you fire a manager or head coach in any sport, it's good to bring in a different type of manager to change things sometimes. The Cubs are the perfect example of this type of team. They are a lazy team because of their manager, so they need someone who will not take any crap and put them in line when they make a mistake instead of kissing their butt and telling them it's ok and everything is gonna be alright.

 

He chose to go to Tampa. And he wasn't any better in Seattle than Dusty was in San Fran (and both men won because of the ability to pencil in all time greats every day - and neither reached the promised land despite all that talent).

 

 

Everybody likes to talk about how smart it is to change the makeup of the team by changing the personality of the manager, but what proof do you have that it works? Philly was a moderately talented team that struggled under Francona, who was considered a soft excuse making players managers. So they brought in Bowa and still struggled. A lot of people just assume that ranting and raving and intensity will equal great success, I disagree.