Bruce's Take

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Thanks for the nice thread. I appreciate it. You guys have once again shown yourselves to be fair and knowledgeable.

 

I've taken a little criticism for my comments on Dusty, but I wrote them in the spirt of "fair is fair." If you give Hendry this extension and he put together this roster, then I think it would be unfair to blame this all on the manager.

 

Maybe Maddux can get you guys a win tonight!

 

Bruce, you have my permission to start a fist fight with anyone associated with the team. Awesome work as usual, my friend.

[Banedon]

Thanks for the nice thread. I appreciate it. You guys have once again shown yourselves to be fair and knowledgeable.

 

I've taken a little criticism for my comments on Dusty, but I wrote them in the spirt of "fair is fair." If you give Hendry this extension and he put together this roster, then I think it would be unfair to blame this all on the manager.

 

Maybe Maddux can get you guys a win tonight!

 

Bruce, there's a lot of talk on talk radio locally, on the ESPN Radio morning show today, and obviously here on the board today about Dusty's ability to lead this team successfully. Is there any sense that Dusty job might be in trouble?

[goonys evil twin]

Thanks for the nice thread. I appreciate it. You guys have once again shown yourselves to be fair and knowledgeable.

 

I've taken a little criticism for my comments on Dusty, but I wrote them in the spirt of "fair is fair." If you give Hendry this extension and he put together this roster, then I think it would be unfair to blame this all on the manager.

 

Maybe Maddux can get you guys a win tonight!

 

I prefer the 2 wrongs don't make a right theory to the fair is fair theory. Yes, if Hendry "earned" an extension with the roster he's put together, then Baker has probably earned one as well. But I think it was a big mistake to extend Hendry so early, and it would only compound the problem by having Baker brought back. These guys just don't work well together. Maybe it's because Hendry is so willing to go after guys Baker likes. Maybe Hendry would be better if he had a guy who wasn't asking for fast versatile players all the time. I don't know. What we do know is that Hendry and Baker together means disappointment.

[CubfaninCA]

i think there's a few teams that will take jones for 2 years.

 

Really? Who?

 

Teams like kc, pittsburgh, and detroit seem to always be in the market for guys like jones. There's probably a few other teams that can be added to the list.

[Banedon]

i think there's a few teams that will take jones for 2 years.

 

Really? Who?

 

Teams like kc, pittsburgh, and detroit seem to always be in the market for guys like jones. There's probably a few other teams that can be added to the list.

 

kc, pittsburgh and detroit would love a guy like Jones if his contract was almost up, because they like to shed commitment and payroll. Jones doesn't do that for them. They've got enough crappy players. They don't need more crappy players with long contracts.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Oh, who's spot is Theriot taking?

[soapy]

Alright soapy and bbb..

 

To get Wilkerson would have to had to give up someone of soriano's caliber & bowden loves sori type of player.

 

Well, if Soriano was so available, maybe Hendry could have acquired him and flipped him to Washington. If not, I don't know why you are so convinced the Cubs don't have the prospects to trade for Wilkerson. I don't know if Hendry even inquired, never heard that he did.

 

Bradley - Colleti didn't want to deal w/ the Cubs and what stud prospect you giving up for him?

 

Wow, you have some pretty good inside knowledge there. Bradley plus another prospect (Antonio Perez) were traded for a player from the Texas League (Ethier). I have a hard time believe the Cubs couldn't top or equal that.

 

Mench - Pretty sure there was a Mench for Walker rumor.

 

I remember some rumors about that as well. I'd like to know if Hendry made an offer (that did or didn't include Walker).

 

abreu, burrell, floyd, huff, gonzo, green might be available at the deadline. i think az, ny and philly wanted to hang onto them in the offseason. hence they're still there. who knows what tb's doing.

 

Dealing with TB certainly seems to be difficult. You may be right about the others, but you seem to just dismiss them as, "well, they probably weren't available. I'm sure Hendry tried." But who knows? I never heard about Hendry even sniffing any of these deals. Instead I heard Hendry talk about guys catching the ball and I heard Baker talk about speed. I heard praise heaped toward two terrible players in Jones and Pierre. I watched Hendry overpay for absolute garbage (Perez, Rusch, etc.) and claim the team didn't have the resources to go out and get guys like Brian Giles, Vlad (a few years back), Ordonez, Drew, etc. They have/had the resources. He didn't allocate them properly.

 

giles & dunn - riiight

Outstanding arguement

 

kearns - hendry's been negotiating with this forever. does cincy deal anyone? give up hill, i guess.

They dealt Casey and Pena, so yes, they still deal. I'd have to think some quality pitching prospects could have landed you Kearns or Pena or, if you upped the ante, Dunn.

 

nomar - at the expense of walker or cedeno?

I agree. I wasn't in favor of bringing back Nomar.

 

coco crisp - boston gave up marte. that's a lot. so give up pie?

Again, likely agree. I wouldn't give up Pie, but it's definitely a name Hendry could have looked into (if he didn't).

 

sanders - doesn't help us more than jones.

If nothing else, Sanders doesn't tie your hands for three years, like Jones. Sure, you can probably trade Jones at some point, but you're likely going to eat a large portion of his contract. It was a stupid signing, no matter how you want to spin it.

 

Really, even Patterson in RF was a better option then signing Jones. Not that Patterson is productive enough to be a RFer (he isn't), but he's still better then Jones.

[CubfaninCA]

Alright soapy and bbb..

 

To get Wilkerson would have to had to give up someone of soriano's caliber & bowden loves sori type of player.

 

Well, if Soriano was so available, maybe Hendry could have acquired him and flipped him to Washington. If not, I don't know why you are so convinced the Cubs don't have the prospects to trade for Wilkerson. I don't know if Hendry even inquired, never heard that he did.

 

Bradley - Colleti didn't want to deal w/ the Cubs and what stud prospect you giving up for him?

 

Wow, you have some pretty good inside knowledge there. Bradley plus another prospect (Antonio Perez) were traded for a player from the Texas League (Ethier). I have a hard time believe the Cubs couldn't top or equal that.

 

Mench - Pretty sure there was a Mench for Walker rumor.

 

I remember some rumors about that as well. I'd like to know if Hendry made an offer (that did or didn't include Walker).

 

abreu, burrell, floyd, huff, gonzo, green might be available at the deadline. i think az, ny and philly wanted to hang onto them in the offseason. hence they're still there. who knows what tb's doing.

 

Dealing with TB certainly seems to be difficult. You may be right about the others, but you seem to just dismiss them as, "well, they probably weren't available. I'm sure Hendry tried." But who knows? I never heard about Hendry even sniffing any of these deals. Instead I heard Hendry talk about guys catching the ball and I heard Baker talk about speed. I heard praise heaped toward two terrible players in Jones and Pierre. I watched Hendry overpay for absolute garbage (Perez, Rusch, etc.) and claim the team didn't have the resources to go out and get guys like Brian Giles, Vlad (a few years back), Ordonez, Drew, etc. They have/had the resources. He didn't allocate them properly.

 

giles & dunn - riiight

Outstanding arguement

 

kearns - hendry's been negotiating with this forever. does cincy deal anyone? give up hill, i guess.

They dealt Casey and Pena, so yes, they still deal. I'd have to think some quality pitching prospects could have landed you Kearns or Pena or, if you upped the ante, Dunn.

 

nomar - at the expense of walker or cedeno?

I agree. I wasn't in favor of bringing back Nomar.

 

coco crisp - boston gave up marte. that's a lot. so give up pie?

Again, likely agree. I wouldn't give up Pie, but it's definitely a name Hendry could have looked into (if he didn't).

 

sanders - doesn't help us more than jones.

If nothing else, Sanders doesn't tie your hands for three years, like Jones. Sure, you can probably trade Jones at some point, but you're likely going to eat a large portion of his contract. It was a stupid signing, no matter how you want to spin it.

 

Really, even Patterson in RF was a better option then signing Jones. Not that Patterson is productive enough to be a RFer (he isn't), but he's still better then Jones.

 

now vlad was the big fish that got away. of course, the trib doesn't have the cajones to sign someone who had vlad's injury problems and sosa was in rf back then.

 

i'll wager to get some of the other guys like kearns or wilkerson, hendry would have to give up pie or guzman or both. then he'd be damned for giving up the youth.

 

admittedly, he blew a lot on a guy w/ a .355 career obp and it's not working. just like lawton became a bum when he got to wrigley.

 

patterson needed a change of scenery.

Edited May 8, 2006 by CubfaninCA

[BigbadB]

admittedly, he blew a lot on a guy w/ a .355 obp and it's not working.

 

Pierre? His OBP was .326 last year.

[CubfaninCA]

admittedly, he blew a lot on a guy w/ a .355 obp and it's not working.

 

Pierre? His OBP was .326 last year.

 

i meant career obp. my bad. need to edit.

[DesMoinesCub]

Just for the sake of throwing it out there...

 

Would anyone do a Soriano trade now to have him play 2nd base until Lee gets back?

 

When Lee returns, you can put Soriano in the OF and take Jones (and his hefty 3 year contract out of the line-up).

 

Pierre-CF

Cedano-SS

Walker-1B

ARam-3B

Soriano-2B

Murton-LF

Barrett-C

Jones-RF (we all know Dusty won't bat him this low)

 

Pierre-CF

Walker-2B

Lee-1B

ARam-3B

Soriano-LF or RF

Murton-RF of LF

Barrett-C

Cedano-SS

 

 

I haven't put much thought into it, but it does provide a little bit of pop and some protection for ARam. Depends what we have to give up, and if he is available. IMO, I don't mind Soriano as long as he is not a top of the order hitter. Again, haven't put much thought into it, just wanted to see/hear what others thought.

[LoneStarCubFan]

Problem is Dusty isn't going to bench Jones. He'll be this year's Todd Hollandsworth/Neifi Perez.

[RynoRules]

Thanks for the nice thread. I appreciate it. You guys have once again shown yourselves to be fair and knowledgeable.

 

I've taken a little criticism for my comments on Dusty, but I wrote them in the spirt of "fair is fair." If you give Hendry this extension and he put together this roster, then I think it would be unfair to blame this all on the manager.

 

Maybe Maddux can get you guys a win tonight!

 

Note: Bruce's post count going way up recently. Don't know if this is a good sign or not.

 

:)

[RyCubsFan]

Just for the sake of throwing it out there...

 

Would anyone do a Soriano trade now to have him play 2nd base until Lee gets back?

 

I'd love to have Soriano on the Cubs. Offer Jones, Rich Hill, and Wuertz...or something like that...

 

I'd play him in RF though in place of Jones. I'd then call up Pie to start in Center. I'd start either Hairston or Theriot at second, whoever hits better. Another idea is to trying starting Hoffpauir at first and Walker at 2nd.

 

SS Cedeno

1B Walker

3B Ramirez

RF Soriano

LF Murton

C Barrett

CF Pie

2B Theriot

[goonys evil twin]

Just for the sake of throwing it out there...

 

Would anyone do a Soriano trade now to have him play 2nd base until Lee gets back?

 

I'd love to have Soriano on the Cubs. Offer Jones, Rich Hill, and Wuertz...or something like that...

 

I'd play him in RF though in place of Jones. I'd then call up Pie to start in Center. I'd start either Hairston or Theriot at second, whoever hits better. Another idea is to trying starting Hoffpauir at first and Walker at 2nd.

 

It would be great if they could trade Jones, but I'm lukewarm on a Soriano acquisition. If they feel the need to resign him this offseason, they could end up doubling the mistake that was the Jones signing. Soriano is simply not a $10 million player. And he could be looking at a 4/40 type deal this offseason, maybe more.

 

If they do sign him, you pretty much have to play him at 2nd. Pierre isn't going to be benched. You'd put Pie in RF and see what happens. There's no reason to go out of your way to get Hairston or Theriot in the lineup.

[Banedon]

I wonder if Soriano would be making nearly the money that he does if he'd come up with a different organization other than the Yankees.

[USSoccer]

Just for the sake of throwing it out there...

 

Would anyone do a Soriano trade now to have him play 2nd base until Lee gets back?

 

I'd love to have Soriano on the Cubs. Offer Jones, Rich Hill, and Wuertz...or something like that...

 

I'd play him in RF though in place of Jones. I'd then call up Pie to start in Center. I'd start either Hairston or Theriot at second, whoever hits better. Another idea is to trying starting Hoffpauir at first and Walker at 2nd.

 

It would be great if they could trade Jones, but I'm lukewarm on a Soriano acquisition. If they feel the need to resign him this offseason, they could end up doubling the mistake that was the Jones signing. Soriano is simply not a $10 million player. And he could be looking at a 4/40 type deal this offseason, maybe more.

 

If they do sign him, you pretty much have to play him at 2nd. Pierre isn't going to be benched. You'd put Pie in RF and see what happens. There's no reason to go out of your way to get Hairston or Theriot in the lineup.

 

 

Goony,

 

You don't have to worry about where Soriano plays until Lee comes back in July. At that point you can worry about where to put him depending on what Jones is doing, Pie is doing, Walker, etc.

 

It's not a terrible idea, depending on the player cost.

[RyCubsFan]

If they do sign him, you pretty much have to play him at 2nd. Pierre isn't going to be benched. You'd put Pie in RF and see what happens. There's no reason to go out of your way to get Hairston or Theriot in the lineup.

 

 

We need to stop running out Jones and Pierre everyday. It's killing this team.

 

Soriano actually looks very good this year here in DC. I've always been fairly critical of him b/c of his poor plate discipline, and then again b/c of the LF/2B fiasco, but he does look good this year. The fans in Washington are really taking to him. He plays hard with energy and he's hitting well. He's simply a much better hitter than JJones.

 

Why not bench Pierre?

 

I agree that it's not exciting to have either Theriot or Hairston in the lineup. With a Soriano trade, two possible suggestions from the farm could prevent that?

 

1. Try Nic Jackson in RF (and Pie for CF). Soriano would then be at 2nd.

2. Try Hoffpauir at first, Walker at 2nd, and Soriano in RF

 

1B Walker or Hoffpauir

2B Soriano or Walker

SS Cedeno

3B Ramirez

LF Murton

CF Pie

RF Jackson or Soriano

 

A lot more pop in this lineup than our current one.

[stitchface]

My problem with calling up Pie is that he really doesn't offer much to solve the Cubs offensive problems. He is OBP limited, anddoesn't have much power, yet. I would leave him alone in AAA myself. Call up Buck Coats if you want to make a statement.

[goonys evil twin]

Goony,

 

You don't have to worry about where Soriano plays until Lee comes back in July. At that point you can worry about where to put him depending on what Jones is doing, Pie is doing, Walker, etc.

 

It's not a terrible idea, depending on the player cost.

 

What do you mean "you don't have to worry about where he plays"? The poster suggested RF right away and I just said 2B is the best bet. I was talking about immediately, if he were signed. And pretty much all my concerns about a Soriano trade involve future use. He's disgustingly overpaid as a corner OF, he's a defensive liablity at 2B, and he doesn't deserve the contract he's going to get. Not to mention he does nothing to address the enormous OBP problem on this team.

[RyCubsFan]

My problem with calling up Pie is that he really doesn't offer much to solve the Cubs offensive problems. He is OBP limited, anddoesn't have much power, yet. I would leave him alone in AAA myself. Call up Buck Coats if you want to make a statement.

 

I'm quite confident his OBP will be much higher than JP's. Not to mention, his slugging % will be much higher than Pierre's, who simply slaps at the ball.

 

He also has a MUCH stronger arm in CF than Pierre.

[goonys evil twin]

Soriano actually looks very good this year here in DC. I've always been fairly critical of him b/c of his poor plate discipline, and then again b/c of the LF/2B fiasco, but he does look good this year. The fans in Washington are really taking to him. He plays hard with energy and he's hitting well. He's simply a much better hitter than JJones.

 

Soriano's line of .286/.336/.526 is not all that impressive. He has always been, and will always be, an OBP liability. He does offer plus power for a 2B. As a corner OF, not so much. Jones hurts this team, but Jones/Soriano is better than Theriot-Hairston/Soriano. I'd love to replace Jones, but doing so with weak hitters isn't going to help the team.

[USSoccer]

Goony,

 

You don't have to worry about where Soriano plays until Lee comes back in July. At that point you can worry about where to put him depending on what Jones is doing, Pie is doing, Walker, etc.

 

It's not a terrible idea, depending on the player cost.

 

What do you mean "you don't have to worry about where he plays"? The poster suggested RF right away and I just said 2B is the best bet. I was talking about immediately, if he were signed. And pretty much all my concerns about a Soriano trade involve future use. He's disgustingly overpaid as a corner OF, he's a defensive liablity at 2B, and he doesn't deserve the contract he's going to get. Not to mention he does nothing to address the enormous OBP problem on this team.

 

Maybe I didn't get a chance to read your post carefully. I'm at work, so bear with me.

 

Your knocks on Soriano are dead on. However, if you're looking for an offensive boost for this year only, he plays 2B until Lee comes back and RF or 2B as the situation warrants. Let him walk after 2006. He'd be a help short term for the offense, I think.

[BigbadB]

To me, Soriano is a patch. He's not a difference maker. He's also in a 1 year contract. How much do you want to give up for a guy who could be gone at the end of this year? Can his bat (and his bat alone) be enough to turn this organization around? Personally, I don't think so.

[CubfaninCA]

Just for the sake of throwing it out there...

 

Would anyone do a Soriano trade now to have him play 2nd base until Lee gets back?

 

When Lee returns, you can put Soriano in the OF and take Jones (and his hefty 3 year contract out of the line-up).

 

Pierre-CF

Cedano-SS

Walker-1B

ARam-3B

Soriano-2B

Murton-LF

Barrett-C

Jones-RF (we all know Dusty won't bat him this low)

 

Pierre-CF

Walker-2B

Lee-1B

ARam-3B

Soriano-LF or RF

Murton-RF of LF

Barrett-C

Cedano-SS

 

 

I haven't put much thought into it, but it does provide a little bit of pop and some protection for ARam. Depends what we have to give up, and if he is available. IMO, I don't mind Soriano as long as he is not a top of the order hitter. Again, haven't put much thought into it, just wanted to see/hear what others thought.

 

I like the progressive thinking. I don't think Washington would take Jones, but maybe Pierre. I'd give them Pierre, Hill and a filler.

 

Cedeno, Walker, Lee, ARam, Sori, Jones, Murton & Barrett could be formidable. Not sure who will play rf tho, as Jones will be moved to cf.