Free Agents....are they worth the money?

[CuseCubFan69]

I know a lot of us like to say "The Cubs should go after the big name Free Agents", but, are they worth the money invested? Vlad was. Tejada was, but many are just having average or below average seasons and huge contracts. Furcel was highly overpayed as was Beltran. Randy Johnson is. Thome was while he was overpayed in Philly and now he is starting to earn his cash in Chicago. Is it worth overpaying a former star to get average or below average production?

[Proven Veteran]

If they are legit superstars, it is worth it. It's not worth it if they are just the best guy on the market that year.

[srbin84]

I'd rather overpay for a guy who underperfoms and is a good player instead of a great player than for a guy who is an bad player instead of an average player.

[rawaction]

It's not worth it simply because it doesn't guarantee you anything. You mention Beltran, Furcal, Johnson, and Thome (in Philly) as failing...but what have Vlad and Tejada gotten the Angels and O's respectively? The Angels have had a couple of playoff appearances, but had no shot of winning anything going in. The O's have been at best a 3rd place team in their own division the entire time with Tejada.

 

The way to assemble a winning baseball team is to develop your own talent and to be able to identify other teams' cheap, young talent. That's how the Braves and believe it or not the Yankees have become perrenial playoff participants. That's how the White Sox, Red Sox, and Marlins have won the last 3 World Series.

[srbin84]

It's not worth it simply because it doesn't guarantee you anything. You mention Beltran, Furcal, Johnson, and Thome (in Philly) as failing...but what have Vlad and Tejada gotten the Angels and O's respectively? The Angels have had a couple of playoff appearances, but had no shot of winning anything going in. The O's have been at best a 3rd place team in their own division the entire time with Tejada.

 

The way to assemble a winning baseball team is to develop your own talent and to be able to identify other teams' cheap, young talent. That's how the Braves and believe it or not the Yankees have become perrenial playoff participants. That's how the White Sox, Red Sox, and Marlins have won the last 3 World Series.

 

What's the difference between the Braves signing Andruw Jones to a huge contract and the Cubs signing him to a huge contract?...unless you're saying to get rid of guys when they reach a certain pay rate.

[MPrior]

I'd rather overpay for a guy who underperfoms and is a good player instead of a great player than for a guy who is an bad player instead of an average player.

 

I'd rather be rich than stupid.

[srbin84]

I'd rather overpay for a guy who underperfoms and is a good player instead of a great player than for a guy who is an bad player instead of an average player.

 

I'd rather be rich than stupid.

 

If you signed Jones, you're rich and stupid. I think being less rich, stupid and winning more games is better.

[Rob]

It's not worth it simply because it doesn't guarantee you anything. You mention Beltran, Furcal, Johnson, and Thome (in Philly) as failing...but what have Vlad and Tejada gotten the Angels and O's respectively? The Angels have had a couple of playoff appearances, but had no shot of winning anything going in. The O's have been at best a 3rd place team in their own division the entire time with Tejada.

 

The way to assemble a winning baseball team is to develop your own talent and to be able to identify other teams' cheap, young talent. That's how the Braves and believe it or not the Yankees have become perrenial playoff participants. That's how the White Sox, Red Sox, and Marlins have won the last 3 World Series.

 

What's the difference between the Braves signing Andruw Jones to a huge contract and the Cubs signing him to a huge contract?...unless you're saying to get rid of guys when they reach a certain pay rate.

 

Because the Braves can sign him to a huge, long-term contract at age 24 that takes him through his productive seasons. The Cubs would be signing him for the seasons where he starts getting worse and worse, as we didn't have the opportunity at age 24.

[srbin84]

It's not worth it simply because it doesn't guarantee you anything. You mention Beltran, Furcal, Johnson, and Thome (in Philly) as failing...but what have Vlad and Tejada gotten the Angels and O's respectively? The Angels have had a couple of playoff appearances, but had no shot of winning anything going in. The O's have been at best a 3rd place team in their own division the entire time with Tejada.

 

The way to assemble a winning baseball team is to develop your own talent and to be able to identify other teams' cheap, young talent. That's how the Braves and believe it or not the Yankees have become perrenial playoff participants. That's how the White Sox, Red Sox, and Marlins have won the last 3 World Series.

 

What's the difference between the Braves signing Andruw Jones to a huge contract and the Cubs signing him to a huge contract?...unless you're saying to get rid of guys when they reach a certain pay rate.

 

Because the Braves can sign him to a huge, long-term contract at age 24 that takes him through his productive seasons. The Cubs would be signing him for the seasons where he starts getting worse and worse, as we didn't have the opportunity at age 24.

 

Ok, bad example, maybe a better one is Zambrano, who will get a huge UFA type deal whether he stays with the Cubs or not. I'm strongly opposed to letting him leave because of price.

[mhuber92211]

What has to be included in any major FA signing is the impact of the fnbase. The Vlad signing is what is kept the Angels' momenteum from the '02 series. A new owner right after a championship often equals a "growt" period as evidenced in Florida. We shall see what Washington does.

 

Back to Vlad. He is absolutely, the best FA signing in the last 10 years. Vlad put the Angels back on national TV and has (basically) singlehandedly carried that team into the playoffs and contention. Now the average fan in LA knows and cares about the Angels and there is a presence of the team around the entire So Cal area and not just the O.C.

[srbin84]

What has to be included in any major FA signing is the impact of the fnbase. The Vlad signing is what is kept the Angels' momenteum from the '02 series. A new owner right after a championship often equals a "growt" period as evidenced in Florida. We shall see what Washington does.

 

Back to Vlad. He is absolutely, the best FA signing in the last 10 years. Vlad put the Angels back on national TV and has (basically) singlehandedly carried that team into the playoffs and contention. Now the average fan in LA knows and cares about the Angels and there is a presence of the team around the entire So Cal area and not just the O.C.

 

Good point. I'm also sure I wasn't the only Cub fan who wanted to trade Sosa and sign Vlad at the time.

[TheDude]

If they are legit superstars, it is worth it. It's not worth it if they are just the best guy on the market that year.

 

It's a flawed perspective because the window for evaluating the worth is so narrow that only a handful of players each year actually fall into the window.

 

Typically with a legitmate superstar, by the time they hit market, they've already crested the climax of their value (ages 28-29). They receive contracts that reward past performance for what is likely decreased future performance - in other words destined to have negative worth by a production per dollar analysis.

 

So teams have to gamble on the guys that hit free agency around age 27 (not that many do anyway) that have potential superstar value. See Beltran. These players are exceptionally good, but receive superstar value for potential superstar production. If they remain just exceptionally good and do not evolve as anticipated to superstar producton, they become another example of negative worth for production per dollar.

 

You can count the sure thing free agency signings each year on one hand.

[rjchapma]

Yeah Vlad is pretty bad making the playoffs the last 3 year oh and won a World Series thats pretty bad. Not worth the money oh and a MVP. I dont know what you are talking about him buddy. Hes produced everyyear for them.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Yeah Vlad is pretty bad making the playoffs the last 3 year oh and won a World Series thats pretty bad. Not worth the money oh and a MVP. I dont know what you are talking about him buddy. Hes produced everyyear for them.

 

Vlad did not win a WS. The Angels won in 02 when he was still with the Expos. Not to mention this is only his 3rd season with them, so he has not made the playoffs the last 3 years.

[rjchapma]

my bad, but they made the playoffs last year remeber they lost to the Sox

[Ding Dong Johnson]

my bad, but they made the playoffs last year remeber they lost to the Sox

 

OK, but if you're going to spout inaccuracies for your arguments, you might as well say he's been the WS MVP for the last 80 years and will never age. Vlad is great, but use the truth to make your point.

[rawaction]

For the record, I never said anything about not paying players a ton of money. You pay your own players if they are worthy of those contracts, i.e. young and productive enough to be worth the money. It has never been worth the money to get into a bidding war for high priced free agents.

 

And yes, Vlad has been in the playoffs. I didn't argue that he was a bad signing in any way. But every year in the playoffs he has been on what was easily the 3rd or 4th best team (last year), who didn't have much of a chance to advance. Like has been mentioned, the Angels were a World Series championship team before him and haven't come close with him. So, in actuality, they have actually gotten worse....because they can't go out and add to the team with his salary there (and Colon's). Of course, they've developed an amazing farm system, which will be the reason they get back to being legit contenders in the very near future.

[davearm]

Back to Vlad. He is absolutely, the best FA signing in the last 10 years. Vlad put the Angels back on national TV and has (basically) singlehandedly carried that team into the playoffs and contention. Now the average fan in LA knows and cares about the Angels and there is a presence of the team around the entire So Cal area and not just the O.C.

I don't disagree that Vlad has turned out great for Anaheim.

 

But let's not lose sight of the fact that he very well could have turned into the *worst* FA signing in the last 10 years. He had some pretty serious, chronic back problems while in Montreal. He missed a good chunk of 2002 on the DL, and played through pain before that, IIRC.

 

He was a pretty big gamble, that so far has paid off big.

[anemic offense]

I know a lot of us like to say "The Cubs should go after the big name Free Agents", but, are they worth the money invested? Vlad was. Tejada was, but many are just having average or below average seasons and huge contracts. Furcel was highly overpayed as was Beltran. Randy Johnson is. Thome was while he was overpayed in Philly and now he is starting to earn his cash in Chicago. Is it worth overpaying a former star to get average or below average production?

 

I hope that's a rhetorical question.

 

Anyways, I've never really cared if the Cubs signed "big named FAs" as long as they spent their money wisely. Unfortunately Hendry has proven time and time again to be a baffoon when it comes to FA talent and contracts. Maddux, Jones, Remy, Hawkins, Neifi, Lenny Harris, and Merk (just to name a few) are FAs who either shouldn't have been courted in the first place and/or shoudln't have received their outrageous salaries.(except maybe Hawk, that SHOULD have been a good signing). When a team routinely misses on its FA signings, such as the Cubs have done, it creates black holes which the team has to live with until the contracts expire. This is one of the/if not the biggest reason(s) this team's been mired in futility the last few seasons. The FA performances we've seen (on the overall) have at best been laughable.

[rjchapma]

Im sorry again about the Vlad comment. Again though him and Tejeda are defeintly worth the money. They arent the ones that are making there teams the way they are. They are playing well. Carlos Beltran on the other hand did not produce so I agree that signing was not worth it.

[neely crenshaw]

sometimes the cost isn't in what you pay someone. in free agnets you do have a pretty good idea of what you will get. there are no guarantees someone can get hurt.

i don't think it very smart to overpay for older, chronically injured or one year wonders(beltre,beltran, pavano or jaret wright)but i would rather overpay for a top shelf free agent then a middle of the road guy-(jones) or a bench player (neifi)

look at what our cost was for not signing furcal. yes it would have cost ud 13mil. we were offering around 11. so because we didn't want to spendthat 2 mil, we have to trade 3 prospects to fill the leadoff role with pierre, and then pay him his salary which is double what we paid corey to play center last year. we then have to overpay for a older corey patterson to play right and pay him 6 mil for 3 years! so inorder to save 2 mil a year for 3-4 yeasr we spent 21 mil over the next 3 years...we also then could not move hairston or walker...needed to sign a vet SS just in case cedeno didn't pan out..another 2.5 mil a year for 2 years!

seriously wouldn't we be better(for sure we are at least equal) if we had corey in center, pie in right, furcal at short, and cedeno at 2b. we could have held on to walker or hairston for bench strength or insurance on cedeno. instead to save about 8 mil over 4 years(i think he signed for 4) we spent 23.5 mil for a grand savings of -15.5 mil over 4 years! and we are worse!

and we can also plan to factor in the amount of jones contract we end up paying after we trade him and then add in whatever we pay the next free agent we sign to fill his spot!