5/3 Cubs (Maddux) at Arizona (Batista) 8:40PM CSN; XM188

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I'm not comparing Guzman to anybody. I'm just replying to the thread that said Dusty is over working our starting staff and I'm saying he's not. As for Guzman? If he can't pitch 100 pitches he doesn't belong in the majors. Can you agree with me on that?

 

Although Dusty has overworked his starters in the past, 2003 being the most famous example, the point was more about the bullpen than the starters.

 

Our bullpen is far from overworked. In fact, some guys are going so long between appearances that they're not sharp.

 

It's nearly impossible to overwork a 7 man bullpen. You could overwork 1 or 2 guys by continually going to them in every situation, but the pen itself isn't going to get overworked with so many bodies.

 

That's not true! If your starters are averaging only 5 innings a start you will overwork a bullpen. Out of a 7 man bullpen only 2-3 of those get consistent work.

 

We play what, 19 games in a row? If we average 5 IP per start, then that's 76 IP for a 7 man bullpen over 19 games. That's about 11 IP per man over 19 games. Some will pitch more than others, but even in that extreme scenario it's far from wearing out the pen. Add in the fact that we also have other arms at AAA that we've been cycling in to add to that bullpen if need be, and there's very little justification for the overworked pen.

[Jon]

"Ozzie isn't exactly known for his good starting pitcher management. "

 

Well he did win a World Series with his starting pitching last year, so he must be doing something right. Sorry I just don't see pitching 104 pitches irresponsible. Again (and for the last time) if you can't pitch 100 pitches you shouldn't be starting.

He also won a World Series with a bad offense, but that doesn't mean it was the right offense to have. And throwing too many pitches usually won't take a toll on previously healthy pitchers in one or two seasons. The risk is for future health.

 

Angel was brought up out of a perceived necessity. His pitching wasn't 100% yet and they knew that. They also knew just how much time he's spent rehabbing over the past three years. You have to adjust standards based on who the pitcher is. Of course, with Angel, you're worried about his immediate health. It's the same reasoning why (hopefully) Wood's pitch count will be limited at least for a few starts when he gets back. You're not going to leave him out of the rotation until he's actually 100% in terms of pitching.

[Jon]

I think its dumb to think 100 pitches are really a whole lot.

 

 

Whatever happened to the old schoolers? Whatever happened to the old days when pitchers actually pitched instead of sat on the DL and cried about being hurt?

 

Wood, Prior, Burnett, Pavano, Beckett are just a few that come to mind that have spent ALOT of time on the DL and in simulated games.

 

I think athletes as a whole in all sports are becoming soft. Honestly, that is why our era of sports in my opinion is weak.

 

On the topic of old school I heard a Fergie Jenkins interview, on days of his starts, he used to throw, get this, 100 pitches in the bullpen session prior to game.

Of course, there's a reason why he's in the HOF. If you try to do what Jenkins did with your entire pitching staff, it'll get thinned out real quickly. The entire system, too. You might find a pitcher or two who can handle that kind of workload, but you're going to have a real bad rotation.

[C.C.]

 

Your missing the point! It's April! No starter or relievers are overworked at this point, but common sense is if our starters can't average more then 5 innings a start the pen will be overworked! Why can't you see that?

 

No, you're missing the point.

 

Right now is the worst case scenario. If what has happened over the last 5 days were to continue to happen for the rest of the season, there's no reason anyone in a 7-man bullpen should be overworked.

 

For some reason, you think Angel Guzman should be fine throwing 105 pitches every five days, but you worry that if Dempster had to throw 29 pitches every five days.

 

Not a single reliever has thrown more than 90 pitches in the past five days, but you say that the bullpen will get burned out at this rate. Yet you say pitchers shouldn't start unless they can throw 100 pitches.

 

Your position makes no sense in light of the fact that research shows it's easier on a pitcher to throw fewer pitches with more frequent appearances than it is to throw more pitches with longer periods of rest.

 

You again are missing the point! You said that Dusty is overworking the starting pitching so far this year, and I said he isn't at all. You said that 105 pitches is excessive for a starter and I said it's not. I said if a starter can't pitch 100 pitches then he shouldn't be starting. Simple as that. As for Guzman? Again if he can't pitch 100 pitches he shouldn't be starting.

 

If the starting staff continues to on average not make it past the 5th inning then yes indeed the pen will burn out. If the staff gets in the habit of getting further into game, then this is a moot point! But your point being that 100 pitches is too much for a starter is crazy! Are we straight on this?

 

One last point our starters are 15th out of 16 teams with innings pitched so far this year. If things don't improve then again our pen will burn out.

Edited May 3, 2006 by C.C.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Your missing the point! It's April! No starter or relievers are overworked at this point, but common sense is if our starters can't average more then 5 innings a start the pen will be overworked! Why can't you see that?

 

No, you're missing the point.

 

Right now is the worst case scenario. If what has happened over the last 5 days were to continue to happen for the rest of the season, there's no reason anyone in a 7-man bullpen should be overworked.

 

For some reason, you think Angel Guzman should be fine throwing 105 pitches every five days, but you worry that if Dempster had to throw 29 pitches every five days.

 

Not a single reliever has thrown more than 90 pitches in the past five days, but you say that the bullpen will get burned out at this rate. Yet you say pitchers shouldn't start unless they can throw 100 pitches.

 

Your position makes no sense in light of the fact that research shows it's easier on a pitcher to throw fewer pitches with more frequent appearances than it is to throw more pitches with longer periods of rest.

 

You again are missing the point! You said that Dusty is overworking the starting pitching so far this year, and I said he isn't at all. You said that 105 pitches is excessive for a starter and I said it's not. I said if a starter can't pitch 100 pitches then he shouldn't be starting. Simple as that. As for Guzman? Again if he can't pitch 100 pitches he shouldn't be starting.

 

If the starting staff continues to on average not make it past the 5th inning then yes indeed the pen will burn out. If the staff gets in the habit of getting further into game, then this is a moot point! But your point being that 100 pitches is too much for a starter is crazy! Are we straight on this?

 

So...

 

A starter throwing 100 pitches every 5 days = A-OK

 

A reliever throwing < 90 pitches every 5 days = pen burnout

 

That's the point of contention.

[C.C.]

 

Your missing the point! It's April! No starter or relievers are overworked at this point, but common sense is if our starters can't average more then 5 innings a start the pen will be overworked! Why can't you see that?

 

No, you're missing the point.

 

Right now is the worst case scenario. If what has happened over the last 5 days were to continue to happen for the rest of the season, there's no reason anyone in a 7-man bullpen should be overworked.

 

For some reason, you think Angel Guzman should be fine throwing 105 pitches every five days, but you worry that if Dempster had to throw 29 pitches every five days.

 

Not a single reliever has thrown more than 90 pitches in the past five days, but you say that the bullpen will get burned out at this rate. Yet you say pitchers shouldn't start unless they can throw 100 pitches.

 

Your position makes no sense in light of the fact that research shows it's easier on a pitcher to throw fewer pitches with more frequent appearances than it is to throw more pitches with longer periods of rest.

 

You again are missing the point! You said that Dusty is overworking the starting pitching so far this year, and I said he isn't at all. You said that 105 pitches is excessive for a starter and I said it's not. I said if a starter can't pitch 100 pitches then he shouldn't be starting. Simple as that. As for Guzman? Again if he can't pitch 100 pitches he shouldn't be starting.

 

If the starting staff continues to on average not make it past the 5th inning then yes indeed the pen will burn out. If the staff gets in the habit of getting further into game, then this is a moot point! But your point being that 100 pitches is too much for a starter is crazy! Are we straight on this?

 

So...

 

A starter throwing 100 pitches every 5 days = A-OK

 

A reliever throwing < 90 pitches every 5 days = pen burnout

 

That's the point of contention.

 

Are you seriously comparing Relievers and Starters? It's too different animals here. You can't compare a starter throwing every 5 days to reliever throwing every other day. All I'm saying (once again) that if our starters continue the trend of not going deep in games, then our relievers will burn out.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Are you seriously comparing Relievers and Starters? It's too different animals here. You can't compare a starter throwing every 5 days to reliever throwing every other day. All I'm saying (once again) that if our starters continue the trend of not going deep in games, then our relievers will burn out.

 

I already showed you that even in the most dire circumstances that the pen wouldn't get burned out. Also, the 4 starters currently in our rotation are averaging just under 6 IP per start, which means over 19 straight games each member of the pen would throw about 8 IP, or less than every other game. You keep proclaiming that the relievers will get burnt out, show some reasoning why.

[cheapseats]

Are you seriously comparing Relievers and Starters? It's too different animals here. You can't compare a starter throwing every 5 days to reliever throwing every other day. All I'm saying (once again) that if our starters continue the trend of not going deep in games, then our relievers will burn out.

 

Yes.

 

Starters and relievers are two different animals. Relieving is easier on a pitcher's arm than starting. That's why Smoltz became a closer for a while. That's why Wood was in the bullpen last year.

 

There is NO EVIDENCE that throwing a small number of pitches every other day can injure a pitcher. There is, however, quite a bit of evidence that throwing too many pitches per outing can hurt a pitcher.

[C.C.]

Are you seriously comparing Relievers and Starters? It's too different animals here. You can't compare a starter throwing every 5 days to reliever throwing every other day. All I'm saying (once again) that if our starters continue the trend of not going deep in games, then our relievers will burn out.

 

Yes.

 

Starters and relievers are two different animals. Relieving is easier on a pitcher's arm than starting. That's why Smoltz became a closer for a while. That's why Wood was in the bullpen last year.

 

There is NO EVIDENCE that throwing a small number of pitches every other day can injure a pitcher. There is, however, quite a bit of evidence that throwing too many pitches per outing can hurt a pitcher.

 

"There is NO EVIDENCE that throwing a small number of pitches every other day can injure a pitcher."

LOL! Tell that to Eric Gagne, Chad Fox, Lightenberg, Williamson, Tom Gordon, Izzy, and the list goes on....What are you talking about? Only Starters have arm trouble? Gimme a break! Relievers come into games with maxium output on every pitch. Starters don't. You can't compare the two. Didn't Steve Stone say that if Wood was a Reliever he wouldn't last two months because if he can't pitch every 5th day how can he be expected to pitch every other day...

[cheapseats]

 

"There is NO EVIDENCE that throwing a small number of pitches every other day can injure a pitcher."

LOL! Tell that to Eric Gagne, Chad Fox, Lightenberg, Williamson, Tom Gordon, Izzy, and the list goes on....What are you talking about? Only Starters have arm trouble? Gimme a break! Relievers come into games with maxium output on every pitch. Starters don't. You can't compare the two. Didn't Steve Stone say that if Wood was a Reliever he wouldn't last two months because if he can't pitch every 5th day how can he be expected to pitch every other day...

 

Sure, relievers get hurt. No one is saying that only starting pitchers get injured. But correlation is not causation.

 

If the relievers you mentioned were hurt solely because they were used too frequently, then why do starters ever get injured? They have at least four days off in between outings, after all, so they should never get hurt by your logic.

[goonys evil twin]

Guzman is starting because the team is desperate. Sure, most guys should be able to go 100. But Guzman is a special circumstance. Likewise, Marshall, with no history of big inning in a season is somebody to look out for overworking (in general, every young pitcher should be protected from overwork, no 23 year old should be throwing 120 pitch games). Because of Guzman's special circumstance you have to take special care of his arm. Ideally he could go 100+ with ease, but these aren't ideal times. The bullpen is not at risk of being overworked right now, and there are reinforcements in AAA if any one guy does get overextended early (not to mention, now we have a starter in the long relief role).

 

Worrying about overworking your relievers, who are by definition your least valuable arms, instead of worrying about your starters, who are much more valuable, is just plain foolish.

[Jon]

Only one of the next six games will be on WGN. That makes me mad.

[otis89]

Only one of the next six games will be on WGN. That makes me mad.

 

Ditto. Our lying cable company still tells us we get CSN even though we don't.

[Balsa]

Sorry, I must be new here. This isn't the game thread is it?

[Soul]

"Ozzie isn't exactly known for his good starting pitcher management. "

 

Well he did win a World Series with his starting pitching last year, so he must be doing something right. Sorry I just don't see pitching 104 pitches irresponsible. Again (and for the last time) if you can't pitch 100 pitches you shouldn't be starting.

He also won a World Series with a bad offense, but that doesn't mean it was the right offense to have. And throwing too many pitches usually won't take a toll on previously healthy pitchers in one or two seasons. The risk is for future health.

 

Angel was brought up out of a perceived necessity. His pitching wasn't 100% yet and they knew that. They also knew just how much time he's spent rehabbing over the past three years. You have to adjust standards based on who the pitcher is. Of course, with Angel, you're worried about his immediate health. It's the same reasoning why (hopefully) Wood's pitch count will be limited at least for a few starts when he gets back. You're not going to leave him out of the rotation until he's actually 100% in terms of pitching.

 

Hmmmmm......it doesn't? Object is to win the World Series, isn't it? Who cares if you have a world-beater offense if you can get that done? Maybe I'm missing something here....

[Fred Hornkohl]

Worthless stats of the day for a Worthless Wednesday.........

 

CUBS are 2-2 on Wednesdays

CUBS are 0-0 vs. Arizona

CUBS are 6-3 when they've lost their last 1 game(s)

CUBS are 7-2 in games that start a series

CUBS are 2-0 in games that open a road trip

CUBS are 7-3 at night

CUBS are 6-5 on the road

CUBS are 10-2 when they get a quality start.... 4-9 when they don't

CUBS are 6-9 when the opponenent gets a quality start.... 8-2 when they don't

CUBS are 11-3 when they score first in the game.... 3-8 when they don't

CUBS are 7-1 when they score in the first inning.... 7-10 when they don't

CUBS are 11-4 when they don't allow any runs is the first inning.... 3-7 when they do

CUBS are 11-2 when they score at least 4 runs.... 3-9 when they don't

CUBS are 10-2 when they allow fewer than 4 runs.... 4-9 when they don't

CUBS are 11-2 when they outhit the opponents.... 2-7 when they get outhit.... and 1-2 when the hits are even

CUBS are on a pace to win 91 games this year..... compared to 79 last year

CUBS are on a pace to score 719 runs this year..... compared to 703 last year

CUBS are on a pace to hit 136 home runs this year..... compared to 194 last year

CUBS are on a pace to draw 441 walks this year..... compared to 419 last year

CUBS are drving in 21.8% of their runners on base compared to 18.4% last year

CUBS are scoring 0.399 runs per baserunner compared to 0.365 last year

Maddux is on a pace to win 32 games :shock:

CUBS are 9-1 when they get at least 8 hits..... 5-10 when they don't

CUBS are 13-5 when they draw at least 2 walks.... 1-6 when they don't

CUBS are 13-8 when they hit at least 1 double.... 1-3 when they don't

CUBS are 5-1 when they hit at least 2 home runs.... 9-10 when they don't

CUBS are 9-0 when they allow fewer than 4 walks.... 5-11 when they don't

CUBS are 9-3 when the opponent GIDPs.... 5-8 when they don't

CUBS are 0-4 when the opponent triples.... 14-7 when they don't

CUBS are 2-6 when the opponent hits at least 2 HRs.... 12-5 when they don't

CUBS are 1-4 when the opponent hits a sacrifice fly.... 13-7 when they don't

CUBS are 4-6 when they hit an opposing batter.... 10-5 when they don't

CUBS are 13-2 when they average 18 pitches per inning or less..... 1-9 when they don't

 

CUBS are 5-0 when Maddux starts

Maddux is 0 of 1 in quality starts

Maddux's ERA pitching to Barrett is 0.99.... pintching to Blanco it's 3.00

CUBS score 4.44 R/G overall.... 5.20 R/G when Maddux pitches

CUBS hit 0.84 HR/G overall.... 1.20 HR/G when Maddux pitches

 

CUBS' offensive support of Maddux.....

 

04/03 - 05/02      AB    R    H   2b   3b   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
CUBS w/Maddux     161   26   46   10    2    6   78   23   10   17  0.286  0.324  0.484  0.808
CUBS overall      817  111  206   38    6   21  319  101   68  137  0.252  0.311  0.390  0.701

 

Maddux's last 5 starts (5-0).....

 

Maddux                  IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
04/07  vs. St. L       6.3    4    1    1    2    1    1    87  2.84  1.42  1.42  0.95  1.42
04/12  vs. Cincy       6.0    3    1    1    2    7    0    86  3.00 10.50  0.00  0.83  1.50
04/17  vs. L.A.        8.0    3    1    1    0    6    0    87  0.00  6.75  0.00  0.38  1.13
04/23  vs. St. L       7.0    5    0    0    1    4    0    93  1.29  5.14  0.00  0.86  0.00
04/28  vs. Milw        6.0    8    2    2    1    6    0    89  1.50  9.00  0.00  1.50  3.00

overall               33.3   23    5    5    6   24    1   442  1.62  6.48  0.27  0.87  1.35

 

Maddux's starts against Arizona last year (0-2)......

 

Maddux                  IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
04/05  vs. Ariz        5.0    6    5    5    1    6    2    84  1.80 10.80  3.60  1.40  9.00
07/31  vs. Ariz        4.0    8    6    6    1    1    1    68  2.25  2.25  2.25  2.25 13.50

total  vs. Ariz        9.0   14   11   11    2    7    3   152  2.00  7.00  3.00  1.78 11.00

season               225.0  239  112  106   36  136   29  3098  1.44  5.44  1.16  1.22  4.24

 

CUBS' season series vs. Arizona last year (2-5) .......

 

Gm#    Date       Opponent         Score  Starter
 1  Mon 04/04  @ Arizona          16- 6  Zambrano      
 2  Tue 04/05  @ Arizona       N   4- 5  Maddux        
 3  Wed 04/06  @ Arizona       N   3- 8  Dempster      
102  Thu 07/28    Arizona           0- 6  Williams      
103  Fri 07/29    Arizona           4- 3  Prior        
104  Sat 07/30    Arizona           2- 3  Hill        
105  Sun 07/31    Arizona           6-13  Maddux      

 

CUBS' season series vs. Arizona .......

 

Gm#    Date       Opponent         Score  Starter
26  Wed 05/03  @ Arizona       N    -    Maddux        
27  Thu 05/04  @ Arizona       N    -    Hill        
105  Mon 07/31    Arizona       N    -             
106  Tue 08/01    Arizona       N    -             
107  Wed 08/02    Arizona       N    -             
108  Thu 08/03    Arizona            -             

 

CUBS' offense during vs. Arizona in 2005.....

 

vs. Ariz           AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Blanco              2    1    2    0    0    1    5    2    1    0  1.000  1.000  2.500  3.500
Dubois              1    1    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    0  1.000  1.000  1.000  2.000
Murton              7    0    2    0    1    0    4    0    2    1  0.286  0.444  0.571  1.016
Walker             24    4   11    1    0    0   12    2    2    0  0.458  0.500  0.500  1.000
Barrett            25    3    8    3    1    1   16    5    1    4  0.320  0.346  0.640  0.986
Macias              8    2    3    1    0    0    4    0    1    1  0.375  0.444  0.500  0.944
Gerut               4    0    1    1    0    0    2    0    1    2  0.250  0.400  0.500  0.900
Lee                28    4    9    2    0    1   14    6    3    5  0.321  0.387  0.500  0.887
Ramirez            21    4    5    1    0    1    9    6    3    6  0.238  0.333  0.429  0.762
Patterson          14    3    5    0    0    0    5    2    1    3  0.357  0.400  0.357  0.757
Hollandsworth      16    2    4    1    0    1    8    4    0    5  0.250  0.250  0.500  0.750
Cedeno              6    2    2    0    0    0    2    0    0    2  0.333  0.333  0.333  0.667
Burnitz            30    5    7    3    0    0   10    1    1    8  0.233  0.258  0.333  0.591
Perez              17    0    3    2    0    0    5    1    1    0  0.176  0.222  0.294  0.516
Garciaparra        14    2    2    0    0    0    2    3    0    2  0.143  0.143  0.143  0.286
Hairston           17    1    2    0    0    0    2    1    1    0  0.118  0.167  0.118  0.284
Perez              17    0    3    2    0    0    5    1    1    0  0.176  0.222  0.294  0.516

totals vs. Ariz   248   35   69   16    2    5  104   33   18   43  0.278  0.327  0.419  0.746

overall          5585  704 1505  313   23  190 2434  676  417  910  0.269  0.324  0.436  0.759

 

CUBS' pitchers vs. Arizona in 2005......

 

vs. Ariz             IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Bartosh             2.0    0    0    0    1    1    0    29  4.50  4.50  0.00  0.50  0.00
Fox                 1.0    0    0    0    0    1    0    11  0.00  9.00  0.00  0.00  0.00
Leicester           1.0    1    0    0    1    1    0    17  9.00  9.00  0.00  2.00  0.00
Williams            5.3    7    1    1    4    5    1   122  6.75  8.44  1.69  2.06  1.69
Hill                6.0    5    2    2    2    4    1   104  3.00  6.00  1.50  1.17  3.00
Rusch               5.3    5    2    2    6    5    0    98 10.13  8.44  0.00  2.06  3.38
Prior               7.3    7    3    3    2    8    0   119  2.45  9.82  0.00  1.23  3.68
Novoa               1.7    2    1    1    1    2    0    37  5.40 10.80  0.00  1.80  5.40
Zambrano            4.7    7    3    3    4    8    1   106  7.71 15.43  1.93  2.36  5.79
Remlinger           4.0    3    3    3    3    7    1    76  6.75 15.75  2.25  1.50  6.75
Hawkins             1.0    1    1    1    0    1    1    16  0.00  9.00  9.00  1.00  9.00
Wellemeyer          1.0    3    1    1    0    1    0    18  0.00  9.00  0.00  3.00  9.00
Wuertz              3.0    4    3    3    4    4    0    70 12.00 12.00  0.00  2.67  9.00
Maddux              9.0   14   11   11    2    7    3   152  2.00  7.00  3.00  1.78 11.00
Mitre               3.0    3    4    4    1    6    3    51  3.00 18.00  9.00  1.33 12.00
Dempster            4.7   11    7    7    4    7    0    97  7.71 13.50  0.00  3.21 13.50
Ohman               1.0    2    2    2    2    0    1    36 18.00  0.00  9.00  4.00 18.00

totals vs. Ariz    61.0   75   44   44   37   68   12  1159  5.46 10.03  1.77  1.84  6.49

ovefrall         1439.3 1357  714  671  576 1255  186 23680  3.60  7.85  1.16  1.34  4.20

 

The CUBS have not hit a home run in their last four games. The last time they went four games without hitting a home run was 30 July through 04 August 2005......

 

Gm#    Date       Opponent         Score  Starter
104  Sat 07/30    Arizona           2- 3  Hill        
105  Sun 07/31    Arizona           6-13  Maddux        
106  Tue 08/02  @ Philadelphia  N   2- 1  Zambrano      
107  Wed 08/03  @ Philadelphia  N   3- 4  Williams      
108  Thu 08/04  @ Philadelphia      4- 6  Prior        

 

Go CUBS !!

Edited May 3, 2006 by Fred Hornkohl

[Drew Doughty]

Only one of the next six games will be on WGN. That makes me mad.

 

I get the Padre games thanks to living in Las Vegas 8)

[Bruce Miles]

Sorry, I must be new here. This isn't the game thread is it?

 

Exactly. So let's get to the lineups:

 

Cubs

Pierre, CF

Cedeno, SS

Walker, 1B

Ramirez, 3B

Murton, LF

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Perez, 2B

Maddux, P

 

Arizona

Counsell, SS

Byrnes, CF

Tracy, 3B

Gonzalez, LF

Jackson, 1B

Green, RF

Estrada, C

Hudson, 2B

Batista, P

[Fred Hornkohl]

Bruce, you're da man !!

[Jon]

"Ozzie isn't exactly known for his good starting pitcher management. "

 

Well he did win a World Series with his starting pitching last year, so he must be doing something right. Sorry I just don't see pitching 104 pitches irresponsible. Again (and for the last time) if you can't pitch 100 pitches you shouldn't be starting.

He also won a World Series with a bad offense, but that doesn't mean it was the right offense to have. And throwing too many pitches usually won't take a toll on previously healthy pitchers in one or two seasons. The risk is for future health.

 

Angel was brought up out of a perceived necessity. His pitching wasn't 100% yet and they knew that. They also knew just how much time he's spent rehabbing over the past three years. You have to adjust standards based on who the pitcher is. Of course, with Angel, you're worried about his immediate health. It's the same reasoning why (hopefully) Wood's pitch count will be limited at least for a few starts when he gets back. You're not going to leave him out of the rotation until he's actually 100% in terms of pitching.

 

Hmmmmm......it doesn't? Object is to win the World Series, isn't it? Who cares if you have a world-beater offense if you can get that done? Maybe I'm missing something here....

The goal is to put together the best team possible, not just rely on great pitching performances. For every 2005 White Sox team, there are quite a few more 2005 Cubs teams. Having a bad offense doesn't exactly give you much insurance if the pitching doesn't work out just as you hoped.

[Flames24Rulz]

Sorry, I must be new here. This isn't the game thread is it?

 

Exactly. So let's get to the lineups:

 

Cubs

Pierre, CF

Cedeno, SS

Walker, 1B

Ramirez, 3B

Murton, LF

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Perez, 2B

Maddux, P

 

Arizona

Counsell, SS

Byrnes, CF

Tracy, 3B

Gonzalez, LF

Jackson, 1B

Green, RF

Estrada, C

Hudson, 2B

Batista, P

 

Thanks Bruce!

 

Neifi in the lineup always = a very bad thing.

[sunnydoo]

Look at it this way guys, at least the Cards or Astros will lose tonight.

 

Get ready for my Neifury!!!!!

[Jon]

Sorry, I must be new here. This isn't the game thread is it?

 

Exactly. So let's get to the lineups:

 

Cubs

Pierre, CF

Cedeno, SS

Walker, 1B

Ramirez, 3B

Murton, LF

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Perez, 2B

Maddux, P

 

Arizona

Counsell, SS

Byrnes, CF

Tracy, 3B

Gonzalez, LF

Jackson, 1B

Green, RF

Estrada, C

Hudson, 2B

Batista, P

 

Thanks Bruce!

 

Neifi in the lineup always = a very bad thing.

At least Mabry isn't in there. I'm sure that Dusty saw that Batista has been destroyed by left-handed hitting so far this year (1.024 OPS).

[Omar]

Sorry, I must be new here. This isn't the game thread is it?

 

Exactly. So let's get to the lineups:

 

Cubs

Pierre, CF

Cedeno, SS

Walker, 1B

Ramirez, 3B

Murton, LF

Jones, RF

Barrett, C

Perez, 2B

Maddux, P

 

Arizona

Counsell, SS

Byrnes, CF

Tracy, 3B

Gonzalez, LF

Jackson, 1B

Green, RF

Estrada, C

Hudson, 2B

Batista, P

 

Thanks Bruce!

 

Neifi in the lineup always = a very bad thing.

 

Thank god he's at the very bottom.

[Roast]

Well, the good thing about maddux starting is, we dont have to score. Maddux will pitch a perfect game and hit a solo homer. We will win.