I gotta say I'm liking the youth movement

[Danny82]

The thing that people tend to forget is that most, if not all, of the youngsters that Cub fans were clammoring to get playing time in the past (Hill, Harris, Choi, Dubois, etc) really haven't done anything of note now that they have moved on from the Cubs. Maybe they really weren't that good.

 

Maybe it is more of an instance of now Baker has younger players who are better than those other guys and more worthy of getting regular time.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The thing that people tend to forget is that most, if not all, of the youngsters that Cub fans were clammoring to get playing time in the past (Hill, Harris, Choi, Dubois, etc) really haven't done anything of note now that they have moved on from the Cubs. Maybe they really weren't that good.

 

Maybe it is more of an instance of now Baker has younger players who are better than those other guys and more worthy of getting regular time.

 

By the same token, the people who played instead of them(Karros, Hollandsworth, Harris, etc.) haven't done much either. No one ever guaranteed the younger players were guaranteed studs, they only argued they were as good or better than the players they were benched for.

[SoonerCubFan]

The thing that people tend to forget is that most, if not all, of the youngsters that Cub fans were clammoring to get playing time in the past (Hill, Harris, Choi, Dubois, etc) really haven't done anything of note now that they have moved on from the Cubs. Maybe they really weren't that good.

 

Maybe it is more of an instance of now Baker has younger players who are better than those other guys and more worthy of getting regular time.

 

By the same token, the people who played instead of them(Karros, Hollandsworth, Harris, etc.) haven't done much either. No one ever guaranteed the younger players were guaranteed studs, they only argued they were as good or better than the players they were benched for.

 

In actuality, these are really about the only potential issues in the Baker era, and they are all weak in comparison with the young players who have been given more plenty of opportunity in recent years. The Karros/Choi platoon was fine at that stage in their careers and was working well until Choi bounced his head off the Wrigley turf. The Dubois/Hollandsworth issue isn't even worth a debate IMO one way or the other. OTOH, Lenny Harris ever starting in the field over ANYONE, young or old, good or not, is a point that must be conceded. If this is the sum of arguments attemtping to brand Baker as pro-geezer, it is not very convincing.

[Andy]

I love the youthful exuberance. I think Murt and Cedeno will be starting for the Cubs for a long time coming and I can't wait to see it. Murt's the best pure young hitter I've personally seen break in with the Cubs.

[CubsInNC]

 

Z has repeatedly proven himself in the past. Marshall hasn't had anything CLOSE to Williams' meltdown against the Cards.

 

I'm not trying to find fault in the fact that Z is still there. Or really that Marshall is either.

 

Just trying to say that the team is going younger and showing patience with some, but not others. I'm not saying that Williams shouldn't be in AAA. Just saying that if he isn't starting up here, he should be there, and starting. I don't like the in-and-out of the rotation thing that the Cubs have done with some young pitchers. I don't know if that treatment is what killed Cruz and his mental toughness, or it was Cruz himself. But with Williams, and our likely need of him next year, I don't want him to potentially be damaged from that treatment. His performance tells me he'll never be a #1 or 2, but he could be a serviceable 4/5 and still could be valuable if we use him in the way that best utilizes (and showcases) his talent.

 

I'd say the same about Marshall/Guz/etc as well. If they're here, and not in the role we will want them at AAA/AA starting. They're most valuable as SP, and it could be detrimental to them and/or their trade value to be used any other way.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Since the front office made it clear that they were going to stick with Murton and Cedeno, and to this date, they're performing, I'm ecstatic. I'm frustrated that the way they had to ensure that Dusty would use them as they management desired, was to have no viable long-term backup plan should either fail.

 

Not that there was a lot out there on the market that would have been better.

 

It's just very hypocritical of them, in my opinion to have done that with those 2, but to have yo-yo'd Jerome Williams around so much over the last 2 years. Yes, I realize that this year his starting performance(s) have been bad. But Z, Marshall, and Rusch have all had bad performances and aside from Rusch, we accept the other 2 being in the SR.

 

Hopefully Williams can go down to AAA, re-find it there, and come back be the pitcher he's capable of. I have this feeling we'll need him again, and soon.

 

Z has repeatedly proven himself in the past. Marshall hasn't had anything CLOSE to Williams' meltdown against the Cards.

 

Similarly, Marshall hasn't had anything close to Williams' 383 innings of above average(110 ERA+) performance at the major league level.

[srbin84]

I like Marshall and think he is doing a great job, but let's not get too caught up in his early success. Scott Downs had a very similar start to his career.

[erik316wttn]

I like Marshall and think he is doing a great job, but let's not get too caught up in his early success. Scott Downs had a very similar start to his career.

 

I always liked Downs for whatever reason.

[srbin84]

I like Marshall and think he is doing a great job, but let's not get too caught up in his early success. Scott Downs had a very similar start to his career.

 

I always liked Downs for whatever reason.

 

Me too, actually. Those were the days of Randy Johnson and a young lefty starter doing anything decent with the ability to strike people out was interesting. I did like the trade though, I though Rondell could have been a really good player, like Carl Everett in his prime. Oh well.

[cubbieinexile]

 

 

In actuality, these are really about the only potential issues in the Baker era, and they are all weak in comparison with the young players who have been given more plenty of opportunity in recent years. The Karros/Choi platoon was fine at that stage in their careers and was working well until Choi bounced his head off the Wrigley turf. The Dubois/Hollandsworth issue isn't even worth a debate IMO one way or the other. OTOH, Lenny Harris ever starting in the field over ANYONE, young or old, good or not, is a point that must be conceded. If this is the sum of arguments attemtping to brand Baker as pro-geezer, it is not very convincing.

 

I think you are over-simplifying the argument against Dusty. He handled Murton badly last year. He handled Dubois badly last year. He has handled the entire core of young pitchers badly. The Corey Patterson situation was a fiasco. The way Choi was handled and the comments Baker made about him was not as simple as a Karros-Choi platoon makes it look. Baker was bashing or at the very least talking negatively about Choi in the press from practically the get go, and he was giving Karros starts against righties from the beginning. Playing Lenny was a mistake, but so was playing Tom Goodwin and Ramon Martinez. Yo-yoing Mark Bellhorn and then basically forcing him out. Playing Neifi Perez at all at the end of last year instead of well any other youngster in the world.

 

David Kelton has gotten a grand total of 22 AB's for the Cubs yet Lenny Harris has 131 AB for the Cubs and Tom goodwin 276 AB's.

 

Like someone else said it isn't really important that the young player never developed into anything. What was/is important was that the players Baker was playing instead were already nobodies and were going to continue being nobodies. They were known mediocrities, he gave AB's to players that were going to help the Cubs lose games instead of giving AB's to young players who could very well be something.