I gotta say I'm liking the youth movement

[erik316wttn]

Finally, after years and years of clamoring for young kids instead of washed-up, overpaid veterans, we finally got our wish. And I love the results.

 

Murton rocks, Cedeno could be one of the best top of the order hitters in the league in a few years. That kid can flat-out FLY. Marshall is doing ok and looks to only get better, Guzman making his start today...

 

See, Dusty? You don't need 38-year-old veterans to win.

[badger1679666666]

I agree. Now if only we could apply that philosophy to Neifury, Jockstrap, and [expletive].

[Ding Dong Johnson]

After seeing Da Gooz pitch 3 years ago, I've been waiting a long time for this day. I hope he looks as good today as he did back then.

[J.R.]

I can agree with this optimistic thread.

[CubsInNC]

Since the front office made it clear that they were going to stick with Murton and Cedeno, and to this date, they're performing, I'm ecstatic. I'm frustrated that the way they had to ensure that Dusty would use them as they management desired, was to have no viable long-term backup plan should either fail.

 

Not that there was a lot out there on the market that would have been better.

 

It's just very hypocritical of them, in my opinion to have done that with those 2, but to have yo-yo'd Jerome Williams around so much over the last 2 years. Yes, I realize that this year his starting performance(s) have been bad. But Z, Marshall, and Rusch have all had bad performances and aside from Rusch, we accept the other 2 being in the SR.

 

Hopefully Williams can go down to AAA, re-find it there, and come back be the pitcher he's capable of. I have this feeling we'll need him again, and soon.

[badgercub]

Since the front office made it clear that they were going to stick with Murton and Cedeno, and to this date, they're performing, I'm ecstatic. I'm frustrated that the way they had to ensure that Dusty would use them as they management desired, was to have no viable long-term backup plan should either fail.

 

Not that there was a lot out there on the market that would have been better.

 

It's just very hypocritical of them, in my opinion to have done that with those 2, but to have yo-yo'd Jerome Williams around so much over the last 2 years. Yes, I realize that this year his starting performance(s) have been bad. But Z, Marshall, and Rusch have all had bad performances and aside from Rusch, we accept the other 2 being in the SR.

 

Hopefully Williams can go down to AAA, re-find it there, and come back be the pitcher he's capable of. I have this feeling we'll need him again, and soon.

 

Williams hasn't even been with the Club for one full year. And I don't think they yo yo'd him around. When he joined the Cubs last year he was out of shape and was pitching with San Fran's AAA club and going through some emotional problems. Was he used properly last year is up for debate, but I wouldn't really say he was yo yo'd around.

[CubDad4Ever]

Except for that 40 year old , we would have been sunk without. I want players who can perform period. Obviously cheap talent (youth) can have great value if they can bring it. I want perfomance and value it from anyone who can bring it . Coach L

[UMFan83]

I agree, but I'm a bit skeptical. It's been well known that over the last 40 years, we've only been about to produce a handful of position players in our system. All the sudden in one year, we produce two studs? Technically, Matt Murton has not been produced by us, as is obvious by his patience at the plate, but still.

 

If they do both turn out to be studs, kudos for brining them up properly, and kudos for playing them both when they looked ready.

[cubbieinexile]

It truly is amazing that the Cubs are 5 games up right now. Even with the offense not clicking and without Prior and now without DLee. Right now about half the lineup is practically a blackhole while the other half is performing somewhat not totally but somewhat. Hopefully Pierre and ARam can pick it up or else these clsoe games that are going the Cubs way now might start going the opposing teams way as the season continues on.

 

As for Williams I was never impressed with him. He always seemed like a guy who is always just a centimeter away from disaster.

[badgercub]

It truly is amazing that the Cubs are 5 games up right now. Even with the offense not clicking and without Prior and now without DLee. Right now about half the lineup is practically a blackhole while the other half is performing somewhat not totally but somewhat. Hopefully Pierre and ARam can pick it up or else these clsoe games that are going the Cubs way now might start going the opposing teams way as the season continues on.

 

As for Williams I was never impressed with him. He always seemed like a guy who is always just a centimeter away from disaster.

 

The execution and pitching have been excellent. When you have a guy like Dontrelle on the mound (or you are facing any teams ace) you need to be able to execute because 1 or 2 runs may be all you are going to get. I even liked it that Dusty had Barrett lay down a sacriifice last night to move Aramis over, with the wind blowing in and Dontrelle on the mound runs were at a premium. Also it was good to see Hairston execute the squeeze. Those are the little things the Cubs need to do because their margin of error is little with all of the injuries. Great Win last night!!!

[Wilson A2000]

See, Dusty? You don't need 38-year-old veterans to win.

 

But a certain 40 year old veteran certainly doesn't hurt

[wade]

Having young guys that perform certainly helps to keep a team good for several years since

 

They're a ways a way from free agency

 

They're low salaries provide payroll flexibility

 

They're entering prime years instead of exiting

 

They're aften less likely to get hurt

 

I like it!

[badger1679666666]

They're aften less likely to get hurt

 

I like it!

 

If one of them gets hurt on a freak injury tonight, I'm hunting you down.

[wade]

They're aften less likely to get hurt

 

I like it!

 

If one of them gets hurt on a freak injury tonight, I'm hunting you down.

 

Yikes! Everybody's after me today!

 

Did you like how I spelled "often" "aften"?

[SoonerCubFan]

Finally, after years and years of clamoring for young kids instead of washed-up, overpaid veterans, we finally got our wish. And I love the results.

 

Murton rocks, Cedeno could be one of the best top of the order hitters in the league in a few years. That kid can flat-out FLY. Marshall is doing ok and looks to only get better, Guzman making his start today...

 

See, Dusty? You don't need 38-year-old veterans to win.

 

IMO, the constant clamor about Baker and vets over kids is and always has been inaccurate. He never had much young talent come up in SF (from the mid-90s to early 00s the only Giants prospect in the BA Top 50 was Jerome Williams), and when he did (Aurilia, Mueller, Clayton, Benard, etc.) they played. Rod Beck was a closer at age 24 in Baker's first year in SF. He fostered lesser talent guys like Ortiz, Estes, Reuter, etc. into productive SP's. The Cubs' young talent has always gotten PT under Baker. Patterson was a regular from Day 1, Choi and Hill had their shots, Zambrano and Prior have been fixtures in the rotation when healthy, he gives each young bullpen arms plenty (probably too much) of rope. Murton and Cedeno have played regularly since arriving, with wise usage to put them in the best situations for them to succeed early. Marshall appears to be developing quite properly under Baker. In short, I have no problem with Dusty's willingness to use TALENTED young players.

 

The bigger issue remains organizational in getting ML-ready talent developed in the first place, as well as planning the transition.

[Danny82]

Since the front office made it clear that they were going to stick with Murton and Cedeno, and to this date, they're performing, I'm ecstatic. I'm frustrated that the way they had to ensure that Dusty would use them as they management desired, was to have no viable long-term backup plan should either fail.

 

Not that there was a lot out there on the market that would have been better.

 

It's just very hypocritical of them, in my opinion to have done that with those 2, but to have yo-yo'd Jerome Williams around so much over the last 2 years. Yes, I realize that this year his starting performance(s) have been bad. But Z, Marshall, and Rusch have all had bad performances and aside from Rusch, we accept the other 2 being in the SR.

 

Hopefully Williams can go down to AAA, re-find it there, and come back be the pitcher he's capable of. I have this feeling we'll need him again, and soon.

 

Z has repeatedly proven himself in the past. Marshall hasn't had anything CLOSE to Williams' meltdown against the Cards.

[rawaction]

The team overall is younger. It's not just that they are giving Murton and Cedeno a chance to play everyday. It's also that the organization finally looks to have some sort of a plan. Other than the Maddux signing, Hendry has not gone out and given multi-year deals to players in their post-prime years. Gotta love the fact that the Cubs position players (outside of Mabry) and pitching staff (other than Maddux) are all 32 and under.

[badger1679666666]

The team overall is younger. It's not just that they are giving Murton and Cedeno a chance to play everyday. It's also that the organization finally looks to have some sort of a plan. Other than the Maddux signing, Hendry has not gone out and given multi-year deals to players in their post-prime years. Gotta love the fact that the Cubs position players (outside of Mabry) and pitching staff (other than Maddux) are all 32 and under.

 

Jones? Neifi? Rusch?

 

(Just 3 horrible deadweight signings/extensions)

[rawaction]

The team overall is younger. It's not just that they are giving Murton and Cedeno a chance to play everyday. It's also that the organization finally looks to have some sort of a plan. Other than the Maddux signing, Hendry has not gone out and given multi-year deals to players in their post-prime years. Gotta love the fact that the Cubs position players (outside of Mabry) and pitching staff (other than Maddux) are all 32 and under.

 

Jones? Neifi? Rusch?

 

(Just 3 horrible deadweight signings/extensions)

 

I wasn't arguing over whether the signings were good or bad. Just that they aren't old.

[badger1679666666]

The team overall is younger. It's not just that they are giving Murton and Cedeno a chance to play everyday. It's also that the organization finally looks to have some sort of a plan. Other than the Maddux signing, Hendry has not gone out and given multi-year deals to players in their post-prime years. Gotta love the fact that the Cubs position players (outside of Mabry) and pitching staff (other than Maddux) are all 32 and under.

 

Jones? Neifi? Rusch?

 

(Just 3 horrible deadweight signings/extensions)

 

I wasn't arguing over whether the signings were good or bad. Just that they aren't old.

 

Man I need a remedial reading comprehension class lately.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The Cubs opening day lineup for 2006, every player was under 30 years old, as was half the bullpen, half the bench, and three of the starting pitchers (Williams, Z and Marshall, though he didn't get here until mid-April). Add in Prior, Wood, Guzman--the Cubs are actually a very young team.

[cubbieinexile]

Don't know if it is totally Baker but this organization has had a pretty bad track record with giving youngsters a shot. I don't think Baker every gave Choi a true shot nor Hill. Nor can I see how one should credit Baker for playing Zambrano. Zambrano was in the rotation by the end of 2002 before Baker got there and going into 2003 Baker really had no other option outside of youth in replacing him in the rotation or for that matter anyone but youth for that whole year for the rotation. Hendry didn't give him old guys to play with in the rotation like he did for Baker and his bench.

 

But I think the real damning point for Baker is that even when he finally managed a team that was out of it he still refused to give youngsters a shot. One could argue that Baker was always managing teams that had a shot he couldn't afford to break in a youngster but that excuse was basically removed last year. Despite that he still went with vets over the future.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The Cubs opening day lineup for 2006, every player was under 30 years old, as was half the bullpen, half the bench, and three of the starting pitchers (Williams, Z and Marshall, though he didn't get here until mid-April). Add in Prior, Wood, Guzman--the Cubs are actually a very young team.

 

Lee is 30, Walker is 32, Jones is 31

[SoonerCubFan]

Don't know if it is totally Baker but this organization has had a pretty bad track record with giving youngsters a shot. I don't think Baker every gave Choi a true shot nor Hill. Nor can I see how one should credit Baker for playing Zambrano. Zambrano was in the rotation by the end of 2002 before Baker got there and going into 2003 Baker really had no other option outside of youth in replacing him in the rotation or for that matter anyone but youth for that whole year for the rotation. Hendry didn't give him old guys to play with in the rotation like he did for Baker and his bench.

 

But I think the real damning point for Baker is that even when he finally managed a team that was out of it he still refused to give youngsters a shot. One could argue that Baker was always managing teams that had a shot he couldn't afford to break in a youngster but that excuse was basically removed last year. Despite that he still went with vets over the future.

 

Choi was getting most of the PT in early 2003 prior to his concussion, over Karros for example. He simply didn't perform in his opportunity and still hasn't post-trade. Hill was actually never a factor during his one common year with Baker, spending the season in the minors, so he's not a godd example on either side. He had plenty of opportunity in ST that year though, and didn't deserve to play ahead of Grudz in any event. Since going to Pittsburgh, they've given him even less chances than the Cubs despite not being competitive.

 

As for late 2005, I don't know what more could have been done. Cedeno was playing a lot prior to his season-ending injury. As soon as the Cubs dropped out contention Lawton was dealt and Murton got plenty of ABs in the best possible scenario for him to develop properly. Not one other young player was "blocked" from PT last year, unless one wants to suggest DuBois, who was actually getting a comparable number of ABs to Hollandsworth prior to his trade. Mitre, Hill, Koronka, etc. got a lot of starts between them. Wuertz, Wellemeyer, Van Buren, Bartosh all got a lot of PT when on the roster, even to the team's detriment.

Edited April 26, 2006 by SoonerCubFan

[SoonerCubFan]

I guess the real test will be when we do start getting Wood and Prior back - does anyone think Dusty will start Rusch over Marshall??