Getting sick of Juan Pierre.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Something else to think about too for all of you stat geeks out there....

 

do you guys really think it is an accident that the Cubs lead the league in average with runners on and with runners in scoring position?

 

Yes, it's probably some sort of an anomaly considering how far we're into the season. This also ignores the fact that Pierre has been beyond terrible at getting on base thus far.

 

How do you really quantify the effect that Pierre has on the basepaths when the pitcher starts paying more attention to him than the hitter at the plate with your silly little numbers? Just look at TWalks numbers that have decreased over the last week since he was put in the #3 spot and Cedeno getting hot in the #2? Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it.

 

It's been what, 5 games since Lee got hurt? And again, Pierre isn't getting on base to wreak havoc and distract pitchers or whatever.

 

And what's the deal with the condescension?

Edited April 26, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[TruffleShuffle]

Something else to think about too for all of you stat geeks out there....

 

Ah yes, "geeks", like knowing and understanding baseball statistics and how they relate to the game is somehow a negative thing.

 

do you guys really think it is an accident that the Cubs lead the league in average with runners on and with runners in scoring position?

 

Yes, I do think it's an accident. Check back with us in October, or at some point after the Cubs have played more than an eighth of the season.

 

How do you really quantify the effect that Pierre has on the basepaths when the pitcher starts paying more attention to him than the hitter at the plate with your silly little numbers?

 

Haha, silly little numbers. I'd argue that your statistically insignificant reference to the Cubs leading the league with runners on and RISP is about the silliest statistical reference made in this thread, but apparently stats aren't silly when they go toward proving your point.

 

Now, let's try to realize that almost every player on the Cubs has a higher OBP than Pierre - meaning that he, by himself, probably constitutes less than 10% of the total baserunners that the Cubs have had this year. So you're willing to attribute the Cubs leading the league in batting average with runners on, and with RISP, based on a player who has made up less than 10% of the total baserunners on the year? That's quite a stretch, to put it kindly.

[A New Era]

Please hit the ball out of the infield some time you freaking girl.

 

I disapprove of these sexist comments and I demand Modzilla :roll:

 

Aawww ModZirrAA!! ::readies camera::

[abuck1220]

 

How do you really quantify the effect that Pierre has on the basepaths when the pitcher starts paying more attention to him than the hitter at the plate with your silly little numbers?

 

hard to tell. he hasn't been on base much. i'll get back to you when he breaks the .300 OBP mark.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Read stat lines to educate yourself and you will know why. As Karros said last nite, Wrigley in April blows for hitters.

 

Juan Pierre .340/.354 away compared to .179/.207 at home.

 

When the weather heats up, so will Juan and ARam...just going to have to be patient until then.

 

cubs as a team, home= 323 obp/420 slg

cubs as a team, away= 317obp/415slg

 

educated.

 

I don't see what that proves. Pierre's legs are what gets him a lot of infield singles. Cold weather hurts that aspect of his game, big time, which isn't the case for the majority of the team, which doesn't largely depend on speed to get a base hit.

 

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

[rocket]

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

 

And maybe those 7 extra times on base would lead to 3 more runs, and maybe an extra victory.

 

I don't know how you can argue that Juan Pierre's low OBP isn't a big deal.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Read stat lines to educate yourself and you will know why. As Karros said last nite, Wrigley in April blows for hitters.

 

Juan Pierre .340/.354 away compared to .179/.207 at home.

 

When the weather heats up, so will Juan and ARam...just going to have to be patient until then.

 

cubs as a team, home= 323 obp/420 slg

cubs as a team, away= 317obp/415slg

 

educated.

 

I don't see what that proves. Pierre's legs are what gets him a lot of infield singles. Cold weather hurts that aspect of his game, big time, which isn't the case for the majority of the team, which doesn't largely depend on speed to get a base hit.

 

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

[nilodnayr]

Something else to think about too for all of you stat geeks out there....

 

do you guys really think it is an accident that the Cubs lead the league in average with runners on and with runners in scoring position?

 

How do you really quantify the effect that Pierre has on the basepaths when the pitcher starts paying more attention to him than the hitter at the plate with your silly little numbers? Just look at TWalks numbers that have decreased over the last week since he was put in the #3 spot and Cedeno getting hot in the #2? Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/base-stealer-intangibles-part-1/

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/base-stealer-intangibles-part-2/

 

Not that youre going to believe all of that because its written by a "stats geek", but theres an empiracle answer to your second question.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

 

And maybe those 7 extra times on base would lead to 3 more runs, and maybe an extra victory.

 

I don't know how you can argue that Juan Pierre's low OBP isn't a big deal.

 

Where have I argued that his low OBP isn't a big deal? I've simply indicated that it's fairly doable to up his numbers with a couple more hits/walks. He's had less than 200 AB so far. Ease up. When we get to the ASB and he's below a .325 OBP, I'll be very worried.

[nilodnayr]

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

 

And maybe those 7 extra times on base would lead to 3 more runs, and maybe an extra victory.

 

I don't know how you can argue that Juan Pierre's low OBP isn't a big deal.

 

Where have I argued that his low OBP isn't a big deal? I've simply indicated that it's fairly doable to up his numbers with a couple more hits/walks. He's had less than 200 AB so far. Ease up. When we get to the ASB and he's below a .325 OBP, I'll be very worried.

 

If its that easy, why doesnt everyone get a couple more hits/walks?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

 

And maybe those 7 extra times on base would lead to 3 more runs, and maybe an extra victory.

 

I don't know how you can argue that Juan Pierre's low OBP isn't a big deal.

 

Where have I argued that his low OBP isn't a big deal? I've simply indicated that it's fairly doable to up his numbers with a couple more hits/walks. He's had less than 200 AB so far. Ease up. When we get to the ASB and he's below a .325 OBP, I'll be very worried.

 

If its that easy, why doesnt everyone get a couple more hits/walks?

 

It's not easy, but in Pierre's case he has just missed a few infield singles, which I blame on the cold weather. You have to take the nature of the player's game into account. Pierre's is dependent on speed, which is very much affected by the cold.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

 

The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

 

The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40.

 

That's over 20% of our games, which isn't a negligible figure.

[donobr]

Lofton was a freebie and is playing better

[abuck1220]

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

 

The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40.

 

That's over 20% of our games, which isn't a negligible figure.

 

WHO CARES IF IT'S COLD...50 DEGREE WEATHER DOESN'T MAKE YOU SLOW!

 

where are you coming up with this stuff?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[nilodnayr]

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

 

And maybe those 7 extra times on base would lead to 3 more runs, and maybe an extra victory.

 

I don't know how you can argue that Juan Pierre's low OBP isn't a big deal.

 

Where have I argued that his low OBP isn't a big deal? I've simply indicated that it's fairly doable to up his numbers with a couple more hits/walks. He's had less than 200 AB so far. Ease up. When we get to the ASB and he's below a .325 OBP, I'll be very worried.

 

If its that easy, why doesnt everyone get a couple more hits/walks?

 

It's not easy, but in Pierre's case he has just missed a few infield singles, which I blame on the cold weather. You have to take the nature of the player's game into account. Pierre's is dependent on speed, which is very much affected by the cold.

 

And maybe when the weather is a bit warmer he will hit the ball truer off the bat and it will get to the infielder, whos arm is a bit warmer so he can throw the ball better...seems like quite a bit of conjecture.

[bring stone back]

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

 

The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40.

 

That's over 20% of our games, which isn't a negligible figure.

 

WHO CARES IF IT'S COLD...50 DEGREE WEATHER DOESN'T MAKE YOU SLOW!

 

where are you coming up with this stuff?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Have you ever ran before?

 

Bad weather does have an impact. I'm not using that as an excuse for his slow start, but it does play a role. I think it's the fact the he's still finding his niche with a new team and the season is only 19 games old.

[Outshined_One]

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

 

The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40.

 

That's over 20% of our games, which isn't a negligible figure.

 

It is a figure that should be taken into account, but at the same time, this April (and winter overall) has been one of the warmest I can remember in the past few years.

 

I mean, Sunny, Lake Mendota didn't fully freeze over this year. This is the first time it's ever happened in the time I've been up at Madison and a good number of people were making a big deal out of it. The weather has really not been that bad.

 

Also, how many of those 5 games were played at Wrigley?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

He's getting thrown out by 1/2 a step in quite a few of his ABs. he's making outs all over the place?

 

The difference between his .286 OBP and a reasonable OBP of .350 is about 5 hits over 79 AB (taking 1-2 more walks). You noticed that? It's like one more hit every four games. He's not really making outs all over the place.

 

And maybe those 7 extra times on base would lead to 3 more runs, and maybe an extra victory.

 

I don't know how you can argue that Juan Pierre's low OBP isn't a big deal.

 

Where have I argued that his low OBP isn't a big deal? I've simply indicated that it's fairly doable to up his numbers with a couple more hits/walks. He's had less than 200 AB so far. Ease up. When we get to the ASB and he's below a .325 OBP, I'll be very worried.

 

If its that easy, why doesnt everyone get a couple more hits/walks?

 

It's not easy, but in Pierre's case he has just missed a few infield singles, which I blame on the cold weather. You have to take the nature of the player's game into account. Pierre's is dependent on speed, which is very much affected by the cold.

 

And maybe when the weather is a bit warmer he will hit the ball truer off the bat and it will get to the infielder, whos arm is a bit warmer so he can throw the ball better...seems like quite a bit of conjecture.

 

Conjecture my foot. Try running in sub 50 degree weather opposed to 80 degree weather. It's a big difference, especially when you are standing in the field all game or sitting in the dugout. If you don't move around a lot, your muscles tend to get tight. Tight muscles slow you down and increase the chances of an injury.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And maybe when the weather is a bit warmer he will hit the ball truer off the bat and it will get to the infielder, whos arm is a bit warmer so he can throw the ball better...seems like quite a bit of conjecture.

 

Conjecture my foot. Try running in sub 50 degree weather opposed to 80 degree weather. It's a big difference, especially when you are standing in the field all game or sitting in the dugout. If you don't move around a lot, your muscles tend to get tight. Tight muscles slow you down and increase the chances of an injury.

 

What about nilo's point about the fielder? By the same logic isn't his arm colder and tighter, leading to slower throws?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I don't get it. Pierre's not getting thrown out by half a step in half his at bats, he's just making outs all over the place.

 

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game

 

Why are you exaggerating?

 

In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre.

 

The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40.

 

That's over 20% of our games, which isn't a negligible figure.

 

It is a figure that should be taken into account, but at the same time, this April (and winter overall) has been one of the warmest I can remember in the past few years.

 

I mean, Sunny, Lake Mendota didn't fully freeze over this year. This is the first time it's ever happened in the time I've been up at Madison and a good number of people were making a big deal out of it. The weather has really not been that bad.

 

Also, how many of those 5 games were played at Wrigley?

 

Does Pierre need to play better? Absolutely. I just don't see this as anything to worry about. A couple decent games and his numbers will start to look a whole lot better.

 

Pierre's also used to Florida at this time of the season (unless he's on the road). Big difference in climates.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

And maybe when the weather is a bit warmer he will hit the ball truer off the bat and it will get to the infielder, whos arm is a bit warmer so he can throw the ball better...seems like quite a bit of conjecture.

 

Conjecture my foot. Try running in sub 50 degree weather opposed to 80 degree weather. It's a big difference, especially when you are standing in the field all game or sitting in the dugout. If you don't move around a lot, your muscles tend to get tight. Tight muscles slow you down and increase the chances of an injury.

 

What about nilo's point about the fielder? By the same logic isn't his arm colder and tighter, leading to slower throws?

 

We're talking about 1/2 a step or less from home to first. That's well within the realm of influence. Substantially changing Pierre's arm speed to a noticeable level b/c of weather is a pretty tough argument to make. They don't exactly keep radar gun readings on centerfielders. I would guess his velocity does suffer some small amount in cold weather unless his arm is nice and warmed up. It's just not a noticeable difference.

 

Why do they keep track of temperature and weather conditions in track? Because it affects results to a measurable level in those cases.

[nilodnayr]

 

Conjecture my foot. Try running in sub 50 degree weather opposed to 80 degree weather. It's a big difference, especially when you are standing in the field all game or sitting in the dugout. If you don't move around a lot, your muscles tend to get tight. Tight muscles slow you down and increase the chances of an injury.

 

I play hockey...thank God they keep the ice rink at a balmy 80, otherwise I dont think I would be able to move out there.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And maybe when the weather is a bit warmer he will hit the ball truer off the bat and it will get to the infielder, whos arm is a bit warmer so he can throw the ball better...seems like quite a bit of conjecture.

 

Conjecture my foot. Try running in sub 50 degree weather opposed to 80 degree weather. It's a big difference, especially when you are standing in the field all game or sitting in the dugout. If you don't move around a lot, your muscles tend to get tight. Tight muscles slow you down and increase the chances of an injury.

 

What about nilo's point about the fielder? By the same logic isn't his arm colder and tighter, leading to slower throws?

 

We're talking about 1/2 a step or less from home to first. That's well within the realm of influence. Substantially changing Pierre's arm speed to a noticeable level b/c of weather is a pretty tough argument to make. They don't exactly keep radar gun readings on centerfielders. I would guess his velocity does suffer some small amount in cold weather unless his arm is nice and warmed up. It's just not a noticeable difference.

 

Why do they keep track of temperature and weather conditions in track? Because it affects results to a measurable level in those cases.

 

I'm talking about the fielders throwing out Pierre at first.

[nilodnayr]

And maybe when the weather is a bit warmer he will hit the ball truer off the bat and it will get to the infielder, whos arm is a bit warmer so he can throw the ball better...seems like quite a bit of conjecture.

 

Conjecture my foot. Try running in sub 50 degree weather opposed to 80 degree weather. It's a big difference, especially when you are standing in the field all game or sitting in the dugout. If you don't move around a lot, your muscles tend to get tight. Tight muscles slow you down and increase the chances of an injury.

 

What about nilo's point about the fielder? By the same logic isn't his arm colder and tighter, leading to slower throws?

 

We're talking about 1/2 a step or less from home to first. That's well within the realm of influence. Substantially changing Pierre's arm speed to a noticeable level b/c of weather is a pretty tough argument to make. They don't exactly keep radar gun readings on centerfielders. I would guess his velocity does suffer some small amount in cold weather unless his arm is nice and warmed up. It's just not a noticeable difference.

 

Why do they keep track of temperature and weather conditions in track? Because it affects results to a measurable level in those cases.

 

I meant the infielder's arm whos throwing the ball to firstbase. They also keep track of attendance, and length of game.