Pierre Extension possibilty....?

[XZero771679666304]

If Pierre is what the Cubs need, which I think he is; I don't see any correlation between Pierre and Pie (other than CF).

 

If Pie is the all-world player that he's put up to be, playing RF might be okay for him.

 

I contend that with Jones, we have a guy who we can conceivably get rid of via trade (if needed). His contract is not so outrageous that if a deal is close, we could eat some contract.

 

 

It's already been established that Pie is not a lead off hitter, so if Pierre leaves and Pie is called up as a replacement, who is a likely lead off candidate? Sadly it is Pie and we're looking another CPatt situation square in the eye.

 

 

I agree. I would personally like to see if Pie could play rightfield if the Cubs do resign Pierre. And Pierre hasn't been awesome but he's been doing thus far than anyone last year.

 

 

I would like to see Pierre bring his performance up before he is given an extension. Having said that, I would not mind seeing Pie in RF and Pierre (given he improves) in CF. How to accommodate that (trade Jones?), I don't know.

 

I think Lee, Ramirez and Barrett provide enough raw power, provided the men aound them get on base. And if we make through Lee's absence in good shape, Hendry and Baker should recognize Walker, because unlike Neifi, he will have really saved us.

[RyCubsFan]

If Pierre is what the Cubs need, which I think he is; I don't see any correlation between Pierre and Pie (other than CF).

 

If Pie is the all-world player that he's put up to be, playing RF might be okay for him.

 

I contend that with Jones, we have a guy who we can conceivably get rid of via trade (if needed). His contract is not so outrageous that if a deal is close, we could eat some contract.

 

 

It's already been established that Pie is not a lead off hitter, so if Pierre leaves and Pie is called up as a replacement, who is a likely lead off candidate? Sadly it is Pie and we're looking another CPatt situation square in the eye.

 

 

 

Pie is a much better defender than Pierre. He would be a much better center fielder.

 

Hairston/Walker/stopgap should be able to lead off next year until EPatt is ready to step in....even Cedeno... After all, they all seem to get on base more than Pierre.

[mhuber92211]

Out of curiousity how does Pierre's start match with other Leadoff hitters in the league?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Out of curiousity how does Pierre's start match with other Leadoff hitters in the league?

 

Going into today's game, he was 21st of 24 in OBP(Duffy, Reyes and Pods were worse), and 20th in OPS(Duffy, Pods, Furcal, and Brady Clark were worse).

[Warpticon]

Out of curiousity how does Pierre's start match with other Leadoff hitters in the league?

 

According to espn, Pierre is 16th out of 24 qualifiers in BA, 21st in OBP, and 18th in SLG coming into today. He's also tied for last in walks and tied for 16th in runs.

[soccer10k]

Out of curiousity how does Pierre's start match with other Leadoff hitters in the league?

 

Going into today's game, he was 21st of 24 in OBP(Duffy, Reyes and Pods were worse), and 20th in OPS(Duffy, Pods, Furcal, and Brady Clark were worse).

 

Well, I guess it's good we didn't waste $10 mil a year on him. I can only imagine how much people on this board would be complaining if Furcalcoholic was doing that on the Cubs.

[frostwyrm]

Out of curiousity how does Pierre's start match with other Leadoff hitters in the league?

 

According to espn, Pierre is 16th out of 24 qualifiers in BA, 21st in OBP, and 18th in SLG coming into today. He's also tied for last in walks and tied for 16th in runs.

 

If that is how he finishes the season then he is not only bad, but he has no business being an everyday player, certainly not for a contender. Why would anybody be talking extension based on these numbers? I don't get it.

[jjgman21]

not a huge fan of Pierre. wouldn't want to see him extended. but I have to wonder how many weeks in a row someone is going to say "his speed didn't necessarily cause that error." I think I've seen that or something like it about 5-6 times this year already. at what point does it become apparent that his speed does lead to alot of times on base because of errors?

 

I think if another batter hits that grounder today, Miles plays that ball alot differently and gets the easy out at first. instead, he came in to get it because of Pierre's speed, picked out a bad hop to play the ball, and it got through.

[RynoRules]

Out of curiousity how does Pierre's start match with other Leadoff hitters in the league?

 

According to espn, Pierre is 16th out of 24 qualifiers in BA, 21st in OBP, and 18th in SLG coming into today. He's also tied for last in walks and tied for 16th in runs.

 

If that is how he finishes the season then he is not only bad, but he has no business being an everyday player, certainly not for a contender. Why would anybody be talking extension based on these numbers? I don't get it.

 

I agree - if he finishes this way. Problem is that its the 4th week in April. May be we should revisit this at the Break.

[frostwyrm]

Besides being overrated, Pierre is not the type of the player who will age well. If he loses a step, or even half a step, his whole game falls apart to the point of rendering him unfit to play in the majors, even as bench player. He shouldn't get more than a 2 year deal from any smart GM, and when he gets over 30 he should only get 1 year deals.

[CubinNY]

Besides being overrated, Pierre is not the type of the player who will age well. If he loses a step, or even half a step, his whole game falls apart to the point of rendering him unfit to play in the majors, even as bench player. He shouldn't get more than a 2 year deal from any smart GM, and when he gets over 30 he should only get 1 year deals.

 

His one tool is speed. I see his career path kind of Like Kenny Lofton's.

[frostwyrm]

Besides being overrated, Pierre is not the type of the player who will age well. If he loses a step, or even half a step, his whole game falls apart to the point of rendering him unfit to play in the majors, even as bench player. He shouldn't get more than a 2 year deal from any smart GM, and when he gets over 30 he should only get 1 year deals.

 

His one tool is speed. I see his career path kind of Like Kenny Lofton's.

Yep, I was thinking exactly the same thing. There's a good reason why Lofton has been on one year contracts for a while now. It's because at his age he's liable to lose another step any day now and become utterly worthless. He does deserve one year offers, but that's all. In another couple of years Pierre will be the same.

[jjgman21]

Besides being overrated, Pierre is not the type of the player who will age well. If he loses a step, or even half a step, his whole game falls apart to the point of rendering him unfit to play in the majors, even as bench player. He shouldn't get more than a 2 year deal from any smart GM, and when he gets over 30 he should only get 1 year deals.

 

His one tool is speed. I see his career path kind of Like Kenny Lofton's.

Yep, I was thinking exactly the same thing. There's a good reason why Lofton has been on one year contracts for a while now. It's because at his age he's liable to lose another step any day now and become utterly worthless. He does deserve one year offers, but that's all. In another couple of years Pierre will be the same.

 

actually, by that logic, the Cubs should sign him up for three or four years. Lofton put up fantastic numbers the first three or four years after he was first eligible for free agency, and at a similar age.

 

not that I advocate such a thing, but it is logically inconsistent and/or premature to say 'his career path will be like Kenny Lofton, therefore only sign him to one year contracts.'

[CubinNY]

Besides being overrated, Pierre is not the type of the player who will age well. If he loses a step, or even half a step, his whole game falls apart to the point of rendering him unfit to play in the majors, even as bench player. He shouldn't get more than a 2 year deal from any smart GM, and when he gets over 30 he should only get 1 year deals.

 

His one tool is speed. I see his career path kind of Like Kenny Lofton's.

Yep, I was thinking exactly the same thing. There's a good reason why Lofton has been on one year contracts for a while now. It's because at his age he's liable to lose another step any day now and become utterly worthless. He does deserve one year offers, but that's all. In another couple of years Pierre will be the same.

 

actually, by that logic, the Cubs should sign him up for three or four years. Lofton put up fantastic numbers the first three or four years after he was first eligible for free agency, and at a similar age.

 

not that I advocate such a thing, but it is logically inconsistent and/or premature to say 'his career path will be like Kenny Lofton, therefore only sign him to one year contracts.'

 

What is it with you?

 

A career path like Kenny Lofton does not mean exactly. Only similar.

 

Be that as it may, I could well see Pierre get a three year deal next year. I just hope it isn't with the Cubs.

[frostwyrm]

not that I advocate such a thing, but it is logically inconsistent and/or premature to say 'his career path will be like Kenny Lofton, therefore only sign him to one year contracts.'

I don't think so. Lofton's and Pierre's skillsets are close to identical. Lofton has been fortunate enough to retain his speed into his late 30's, but most players don't. Pierre will be 29 in August. He might deserve one more multiyear deal. After that it would be a foolish gamble to sign him for more than one year.

[jjgman21]

 

What is it with you?

 

 

what is with you? why do you constantly make comments like this to people.

 

the poster obviously doesn't want Pierre signed long term, and used Kenny Lofton's career as a reason for one year contracts, when Kenny Lofton's career indicated that it may be wise to sign Pierre to a long term deal. my post raised a valid point. if you don't like it, move on. if you want to raise a counter point, do so without the prickish comments.

[goonys evil twin]

Why would anybody compare Pierre to Kenny Lofton? I don't see much of a similarity at all. Other than the superficial (fast, black, lefthanded centerfielder), their games aren't much alike. Kenny was a significantly more well rounded player. Juan is all slap and run. Lofton hit homers, slugged well into the 400s nearly every year, and drew a lot more walks and strikeouts. Kenny exceeded a .400 OBP by his 2nd full season (age 26) and did it 3 more times in his career. He was .360 or higher every year until his age 34 season. For his career, one of his most similar comparisons, according to baseballreference.com, is Ken Griffey (Sr., not Jr.), and Damon is close behind.

 

Pierre is Willie Wilson.

 

There's no comparison here people. If there were, I would strongly advocate a 3-4 year contract.

[jjgman21]

Why would anybody compare Pierre to Kenny Lofton? I don't see much of a similarity at all. Other than the superficial (fast, black, lefthanded centerfielder), their games aren't much alike. Kenny was a significantly more well rounded player. Juan is all slap and run. Lofton hit homers, slugged well into the 400s nearly every year, and drew a lot more walks and strikeouts. Kenny exceeded a .400 OBP by his 2nd full season (age 26) and did it 3 more times in his career. He was .360 or higher every year until his age 34 season. For his career, one of his most similar comparisons, according to baseballreference.com, is Ken Griffey (Sr., not Jr.), and Damon is close behind.

 

Pierre is Willie Wilson.

 

There's no comparison here people. If there were, I would strongly advocate a 3-4 year contract.

 

I agree 100%.

[RynoRules]

Why would anybody compare Pierre to Kenny Lofton? I don't see much of a similarity at all. Other than the superficial (fast, black, lefthanded centerfielder), their games aren't much alike. Kenny was a significantly more well rounded player. Juan is all slap and run. Lofton hit homers, slugged well into the 400s nearly every year, and drew a lot more walks and strikeouts. Kenny exceeded a .400 OBP by his 2nd full season (age 26) and did it 3 more times in his career. He was .360 or higher every year until his age 34 season. For his career, one of his most similar comparisons, according to baseballreference.com, is Ken Griffey (Sr., not Jr.), and Damon is close behind.

 

Pierre is Willie Wilson.

 

There's no comparison here people. If there were, I would strongly advocate a 3-4 year contract.

 

I agree - Lofton was a more powerful hitter with a better arm in CF. He plays CF like he's swatting at flies (Pierre is better in that regard), but its his one wekaness.

 

That said, I think Pierre is better than Willie Wilson, though not by much:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wilsowi02.shtml

 

Not a bad comparison.

[frostwyrm]

Why would anybody compare Pierre to Kenny Lofton? I don't see much of a similarity at all. Other than the superficial (fast, black, lefthanded centerfielder), their games aren't much alike. Kenny was a significantly more well rounded player. Juan is all slap and run. Lofton hit homers, slugged well into the 400s nearly every year, and drew a lot more walks and strikeouts. Kenny exceeded a .400 OBP by his 2nd full season (age 26) and did it 3 more times in his career. He was .360 or higher every year until his age 34 season. For his career, one of his most similar comparisons, according to baseballreference.com, is Ken Griffey (Sr., not Jr.), and Damon is close behind.

 

Pierre is Willie Wilson.

 

There's no comparison here people. If there were, I would strongly advocate a 3-4 year contract.

 

Lofton's power is a thing of the past. Only thing he does better than Pierre now is take walks. If you want to talk about the Lofton from 5 years ago, then yeah, he's a lot different from Pierre.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why would anybody compare Pierre to Kenny Lofton? I don't see much of a similarity at all. Other than the superficial (fast, black, lefthanded centerfielder), their games aren't much alike. Kenny was a significantly more well rounded player. Juan is all slap and run. Lofton hit homers, slugged well into the 400s nearly every year, and drew a lot more walks and strikeouts. Kenny exceeded a .400 OBP by his 2nd full season (age 26) and did it 3 more times in his career. He was .360 or higher every year until his age 34 season. For his career, one of his most similar comparisons, according to baseballreference.com, is Ken Griffey (Sr., not Jr.), and Damon is close behind.

 

Pierre is Willie Wilson.

 

There's no comparison here people. If there were, I would strongly advocate a 3-4 year contract.

 

Lofton's power is a thing of the past. Only thing he does better than Pierre now is take walks. If you want to talk about the Lofton from 5 years ago, then yeah, he's a lot different from Pierre.

 

Well, yeah, he's not comparing 39 year old Lofton to Pierre, he's comparing them when they were at the same point in their careers.

 

And to further the Lofton-Pierre disparity, Pierre has cracked a 100 OPS+ just once in his career, while Lofton has been below 100 just 3 times in 14 seasons.

[CubinNY]

Nobody was comparing their skill sets at the same age, at least I wasn't.

[goonys evil twin]

Why would anybody compare Pierre to Kenny Lofton? I don't see much of a similarity at all. Other than the superficial (fast, black, lefthanded centerfielder), their games aren't much alike. Kenny was a significantly more well rounded player. Juan is all slap and run. Lofton hit homers, slugged well into the 400s nearly every year, and drew a lot more walks and strikeouts. Kenny exceeded a .400 OBP by his 2nd full season (age 26) and did it 3 more times in his career. He was .360 or higher every year until his age 34 season. For his career, one of his most similar comparisons, according to baseballreference.com, is Ken Griffey (Sr., not Jr.), and Damon is close behind.

 

Pierre is Willie Wilson.

 

There's no comparison here people. If there were, I would strongly advocate a 3-4 year contract.

 

Lofton's power is a thing of the past. Only thing he does better than Pierre now is take walks. If you want to talk about the Lofton from 5 years ago, then yeah, he's a lot different from Pierre.

 

Well if you are talking about career paths, you are talking about them at similar ages. It doesn't make any sense to say a 28 year old Pierre's career path is going to be the same as the 38 year old Lofton.

[goonys evil twin]

Nobody was comparing their skill sets at the same age, at least I wasn't.

 

You compared their career path, which insinuates comparing them at similar ages. Lofton is going to be out of baseball in a year or two. You can't compare Pierre now with Lofton now.

[frostwyrm]

Nobody was comparing their skill sets at the same age, at least I wasn't.

 

You compared their career path, which insinuates comparing them at similar ages. Lofton is going to be out of baseball in a year or two. You can't compare Pierre now with Lofton now.

 

I think this is just a case of miscommunication. What CubinNY and I were implying is that looking forward Pierre's career path is going to look like the last 4-5 years of Lofton's career. Obviously their careers are different looking backwards. And I was comparing their skillsets as they have been in the recent past. They're very similar players now, other than Lofton walking a bit more.