Spitballing complaint from LaRussa?

[jaydee]

TLR has a mullet. He also wears sunglasses during night games. That is all you need to know about the guy.

[minnesotacubsfan]

EVERY time Pujols hits a HR, someone oughta ask the ump to check the bat...

 

fixed. he is, afterall, 37 yrs old

 

LOL, he's one of the "oldest" looking 25 year olds I've ever seen. I'm guessing that when he was 1 he looked like 13 year old.

 

 

:P

[soccer10k]

EVERY time Pujols hits a HR, someone oughta ask the ump to check the bat...

 

fixed. he is, afterall, 37 yrs old

 

LOL, he's one of the "oldest" looking 25 year olds I've ever seen. I'm guessing that when he was 1 he looked like 13 year old.

 

It's so much fun making Hispanic "How Old Are They Really?" jokes. They're always funny.

[wolf stansson]

Some of you are starting to sound like a lof Cardinals fans I know. They suffer from big city envy and apparently you are jealous of some sort of conspiratorial favoritism from umpires, the team's ability to coax decent years out of crappy players (which I think is more exaggerated than realistic), and Albert Pujols being really good and really young.

[gflore34]

Some of you are starting to sound like a lof Cardinals fans I know. They suffer from big city envy and apparently you are jealous of some sort of conspiratorial favoritism from umpires, the team's ability to coax decent years out of crappy players (which I think is more exaggerated than realistic), and Albert Pujols being really good and really young.

 

Exaggeration? What of Womack in '04 or Nunez last season?

[CubinNY]

I don't think the Cardinals get anymore calls then the Cubs do. That is just nonsense, quite frankly. Howerver, that has nothing to do with what LaRussa did. I don't think it is standard operating porcedure in baseball either. Usually when this thing happens they find something incriminating on the guy, ala Cybil Tavaras.

 

What LaRussa did was just poor sportsmanship. He appears to be a very petty human being.

[gflore34]

I don't think the Cardinals get anymore calls then the Cubs do. That is just nonsense, quite frankly. Howerver, that has nothing to do with what LaRussa did. I don't think it is standard operating porcedure in baseball either. Usually when this thing happens they find something incriminating on the guy, ala Cybil Tavaras.

 

What LaRussa did was just poor sportsmanship. He appears to be a very petty human being.

 

I agree, if anything, the Umpires are inconsistent, their strike zone appears to change from inning to inning. As for LaRussa I think you've got him pegged.

[cubfan1955]

I think LaRussa learned long ago that the squeaky wheel gets the most grease and personally I'd like to see Baker going out and doing a little more disagreeing with the umpires. That can and does lead to getting a close call later in the game...unless you tick them off too bad in the first argument. It's called "playing the umpires" and LaRussa is really good at it.

 

As far as LaRussa and the Cardinals accusing Maddux of cheating, I don't believe they really believe he was cheating. Watching the St. Louis news at 10 pm last night LaRussa and the Cardinals interviewed were nothing but complementary of Maddux domination of them. LaRussa even went so far as to say the game was never a "contest".

 

No I still don't like the smug b*****d but I didn't hear him complaining post game that Maddux was cheating.

[CubinNY]

I think LaRussa learned long ago that the squeaky wheel gets the most grease and personally I'd like to see Baker going out and doing a little more disagreeing with the umpires. That can and does lead to getting a close call later in the game...unless you tick them off too bad in the first argument. It's called "playing the umpires" and LaRussa is really good at it.

 

As far as LaRussa and the Cardinals accusing Maddux of cheating, I don't believe they really believe he was cheating. Watching the St. Louis news at 10 pm last night LaRussa and the Cardinals interviewed were nothing but complementary of Maddux domination of them. LaRussa even went so far as to say the game was never a "contest".

 

No I still don't like the smug b*****d but I didn't hear him complaining post game that Maddux was cheating.

 

That's the point. I don't think LaRussa thought Maddux was scuffing the ball either. He was trying some silly little league poor sportsmanship stuff.

 

It looked to me a little like the ump gave Maddux a little larger strike zone on the next two pitches too.

 

And Maddux continuted to pound on them like a rented mule.

[jjgman21]

obviously I do think the Cards get some favoritism, and there really isn't much that can change my mind about it. see the examples I gave above, throw in a little Aram being called out when he was safe, and there's the swing in the series.

 

go back a couple weeks and see the strikezone Ponson got, then compare to Rolen's 6 strike AB in the first inning against Marshall. claim it was the way the ball came out of Marshall's hand and that it 'confused' the ump, and I'll point to the Cubs relievers that didn't get the same calls Ponson got.

 

go back in time and see Darryl Kile getting a strike called every time he threw the curve anywhere near the plate. see the call that prevented the series in 2003 from being a 5 game sweep. I could go through player after player that had their BB and K rates significantly improve once they became a Cardinal, only to have them return to their career norm after they leave the Cardinals.

 

but everytime I bring it up, I see the obligatory knee jerk labeling of 'conspiracy.' I never claimed there is a conspiracy. I've never said anything about the umps being in cahoots with each other or any certain team. but the fact is, we all know that certain players get special treatment (Clemens, Bonds, Maddux/Glavine back in the day, Schilling beating up Questech because he wasn't getting the corner calls he was used to). it is not a stretch to say that may go for certain teams as well.

 

I don't believe it is even a conscious thing that makes the umps give favorable calls to certain players or certain teams, much less a conspiracy. it is simply an ingrained mindset of everybody who follows baseball. "Clemens good. hits corners." "Bonds thinks not strike. must not be strike."

 

similarly "Cards make big play/pitch when need, Cubs fail." it's an ingrained mindset we've all heard all of our lives. that subconscious thought translating to results during a baseball game is not an absurd notion at all. it's pretty much elementary psychology.

[cubfan1955]

I think LaRussa learned long ago that the squeaky wheel gets the most grease and personally I'd like to see Baker going out and doing a little more disagreeing with the umpires. That can and does lead to getting a close call later in the game...unless you tick them off too bad in the first argument. It's called "playing the umpires" and LaRussa is really good at it.

 

As far as LaRussa and the Cardinals accusing Maddux of cheating, I don't believe they really believe he was cheating. Watching the St. Louis news at 10 pm last night LaRussa and the Cardinals interviewed were nothing but complementary of Maddux domination of them. LaRussa even went so far as to say the game was never a "contest".

 

No I still don't like the smug b*****d but I didn't hear him complaining post game that Maddux was cheating.

 

That's the point. I don't think LaRussa thought Maddux was scuffing the ball either. He was trying some silly little league poor sportsmanship stuff.

 

It looked to me a little like the ump gave Maddux a little larger strike zone on the next two pitches too.

 

And Maddux continuted to pound on them like a rented mule.

 

LaRussa is the classic example of loving to dish it out but can't take it if someone does the same thing to him. And his pitching coach is even worse.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

LaRussa is the classic example of loving to dish it out but can't take it if someone does the same thing to him.

 

Bingo.

[cubweiser03]

'Gamesmanship' doesnt give TLR carte blanche to be an ass. TLR sells it as 'Gamesmanship' and thinks its cute.

 

Im checking Pujols bat and having the ump check up on Carpenter. TLR started it, double the douche up.

[Jehrico]

You guys are funny.

 

 

Here's the score for everyone who is scoring at home but is unable to look at anything unbiased:

 

The Cubs and Cardinals are both guilty of throwing at each other's batters. Both managers pull this crap with opposing pitchers. Last year I thought Dusty was going to charge the mound on Carp. Insinuating that Tony promotes steroid use among his players is ludicrous. Acting like this issue between Tony and Maddux is a big deal is dumb. It's not. It's a result of a bunch of you people hating Tony. Nothing more.

 

No, it's not. Do a little research...TLR has made more accusations over the past few years than the other 29 teams in baseball combined. There hasn't been anymore insinuations going the other way than would be normal despite the fact you guys had two blatantly obvious cheaters in your bullpen (Kline and Tavares). It just doesn't add up.

[Andy]

obviously I do think the Cards get some favoritism, and there really isn't much that can change my mind about it. see the examples I gave above, throw in a little Aram being called out when he was safe, and there's the swing in the series.

 

go back a couple weeks and see the strikezone Ponson got, then compare to Rolen's 6 strike AB in the first inning against Marshall. claim it was the way the ball came out of Marshall's hand and that it 'confused' the ump, and I'll point to the Cubs relievers that didn't get the same calls Ponson got.

 

go back in time and see Darryl Kile getting a strike called every time he threw the curve anywhere near the plate. see the call that prevented the series in 2003 from being a 5 game sweep. I could go through player after player that had their BB and K rates significantly improve once they became a Cardinal, only to have them return to their career norm after they leave the Cardinals.

 

but everytime I bring it up, I see the obligatory knee jerk labeling of 'conspiracy.' I never claimed there is a conspiracy. I've never said anything about the umps being in cahoots with each other or any certain team. but the fact is, we all know that certain players get special treatment (Clemens, Bonds, Maddux/Glavine back in the day, Schilling beating up Questech because he wasn't getting the corner calls he was used to). it is not a stretch to say that may go for certain teams as well.

 

I don't believe it is even a conscious thing that makes the umps give favorable calls to certain players or certain teams, much less a conspiracy. it is simply an ingrained mindset of everybody who follows baseball. "Clemens good. hits corners." "Bonds thinks not strike. must not be strike."

 

similarly "Cards make big play/pitch when need, Cubs fail." it's an ingrained mindset we've all heard all of our lives. that subconscious thought translating to results during a baseball game is not an absurd notion at all. it's pretty much elementary psychology.

Good post. I would also add the absurd Murton "out" call and the Pierre "check swing" from the Wrigley series to that list.

 

I wonder if it's the same conventional wisdom that leads ESPN to excuse the purely and simply awful calls on Murt and Pierre as they did in the Wrigley series.

[jjgman21]

obviously I do think the Cards get some favoritism, and there really isn't much that can change my mind about it. see the examples I gave above, throw in a little Aram being called out when he was safe, and there's the swing in the series.

 

go back a couple weeks and see the strikezone Ponson got, then compare to Rolen's 6 strike AB in the first inning against Marshall. claim it was the way the ball came out of Marshall's hand and that it 'confused' the ump, and I'll point to the Cubs relievers that didn't get the same calls Ponson got.

 

go back in time and see Darryl Kile getting a strike called every time he threw the curve anywhere near the plate. see the call that prevented the series in 2003 from being a 5 game sweep. I could go through player after player that had their BB and K rates significantly improve once they became a Cardinal, only to have them return to their career norm after they leave the Cardinals.

 

but everytime I bring it up, I see the obligatory knee jerk labeling of 'conspiracy.' I never claimed there is a conspiracy. I've never said anything about the umps being in cahoots with each other or any certain team. but the fact is, we all know that certain players get special treatment (Clemens, Bonds, Maddux/Glavine back in the day, Schilling beating up Questech because he wasn't getting the corner calls he was used to). it is not a stretch to say that may go for certain teams as well.

 

I don't believe it is even a conscious thing that makes the umps give favorable calls to certain players or certain teams, much less a conspiracy. it is simply an ingrained mindset of everybody who follows baseball. "Clemens good. hits corners." "Bonds thinks not strike. must not be strike."

 

similarly "Cards make big play/pitch when need, Cubs fail." it's an ingrained mindset we've all heard all of our lives. that subconscious thought translating to results during a baseball game is not an absurd notion at all. it's pretty much elementary psychology.

Good post. I would also add the absurd Murton "out" call and the Pierre "check swing" from the Wrigley series to that list.

 

I wonder if it's the same conventional wisdom that leads ESPN to excuse the purely and simply awful calls on Murt and Pierre as they did in the Wrigley series.

 

and keep in mind that checkswing call by the home plate umpire came the day after the previous home plate ump did the exact same thing. made the call himself, without checking with the corner ump, and got it wrong.

[soccer10k]

Good post. I would also add the absurd Murton "out" call and the Pierre "check swing" from the Wrigley series to that list.

 

I wonder if it's the same conventional wisdom that leads ESPN to excuse the purely and simply awful calls on Murt and Pierre as they did in the Wrigley series.

 

and keep in mind that checkswing call by the home plate umpire came the day after the previous home plate ump did the exact same thing. made the call himself, without checking with the corner ump, and got it wrong.

 

That's the worst part. On a call like that the home plate ump MUST check with the third base ump because the third base ump has a much better look at it. Same goes for a righty and the first base ump.

 

Also something that just started to bother me. If the home plate umpire and the catcher can ask the corner ump for help on a call, why shouldn't a batter be able to ask for help as well if the call goes against him? Because in that situation, the home plate ump thought he was right, and the catcher obviously isn't going to say anything. I think the hitter should be able to ask for help on a close call like that. It's only fair.

[wolf stansson]

similarly "Cards make big play/pitch when need, Cubs fail." it's an ingrained mindset we've all heard all of our lives. that subconscious thought translating to results during a baseball game is not an absurd notion at all. it's pretty much elementary psychology.

Wow. That is ridiculous paranoia. So you're saying that these umpires who more than likely could care less about the Cubs or the Cards have a deeply ingrained bias towards the Cards due to the history of the two teams? That is preposterous. In no way is that elementary psychology there Freud.

 

But if you want to get technical and psychoanalyze this we can:

 

What is elementary psychology is the inferiority complex being displayed in this thread.

 

What some of you are exhibiting is known as "cultural cringe" which is an inferiority complex that exists throughout members of a group or entire culture. Inferiority complexes lead to neurosis in many cases. Neurosis is a mental imbalance that leads to distress and anxiety (IE - paranoia: the umps, media, and Tony LaRussa are out to get us/Maddux) but doesn't interfere with the person's ability to function in everyday life.

 

 

 

That being said, I think all of this does not apply. I think some of you are just taking this incident far too seriously.

[wolf stansson]

Exaggeration? What of Womack in '04 or Nunez last season?

Lucky. If you want to do the work, figure out by what measure of improvement Cardinals FA signees experience as opposed to the FA signees of similar skill sets and salary that go to other teams. I'm willing to bet it's not much different.

[jjgman21]

similarly "Cards make big play/pitch when need, Cubs fail." it's an ingrained mindset we've all heard all of our lives. that subconscious thought translating to results during a baseball game is not an absurd notion at all. it's pretty much elementary psychology.

Wow. That is ridiculous paranoia. So you're saying that these umpires who more than likely could care less about the Cubs or the Cards have a deeply ingrained bias towards the Cards due to the history of the two teams? That is preposterous. In no way is that elementary psychology there Freud.

 

But if you want to get technical and psychoanalyze this we can:

 

What is elementary psychology is the inferiority complex being displayed in this thread.

 

What some of you are exhibiting is known as "cultural cringe" which is an inferiority complex that exists throughout members of a group or entire culture. Inferiority complexes lead to neurosis in many cases. Neurosis is a mental imbalance that leads to distress and anxiety (IE - paranoia: the umps, media, and Tony LaRussa are out to get us/Maddux) but doesn't interfere with the person's ability to function in everyday life.

 

 

 

That being said, I think all of this does not apply. I think some of you are just taking this incident far too seriously.

 

what a wildly inappropriate response. and it's Pavlov, not Freud.

 

check in with me the next time any corner call ever goes against the Cardinals.

[wolf stansson]

what a wildly inappropriate response. and it's Pavlov, not Freud.

 

check in with me the next time any corner call ever goes against the Cardinals.

So...what? Like a few times a game? Umpires are fallable. The calls against the Cubs resonate in your mind because you are a Cubs fan. The calls for the Cubs do not because you think that is the way they should be.

 

 

BTW - Pavlov came up with the concept of conditional reflexes. Things that are as much physiological as they are psychological. What you are talking about is sunconscious bias: more Freudian or Jungian than Pavlovian who wasn't even a psychologist.

[bhogg]

I'm a cub fan that doesn't hate Larussa.

 

Heck, I kinda like what he was trying to do wth Maddux. He was just trying to get into his head. Maddux probably took it as a compliment.

 

 

In the book, "Three Nights in August" it speaks about LaRussa arguing balls and strikes (against maddux and the cubs) to the point of intentionally getting tossed just so he could get the ump to think a little more about calling that wide strike.

 

Did it work? Who really knows. That particular game, the Cards kept their heads above water and beat the Cub bullpen.

 

 

Again, I'd say it's just LaRussa trying to rattle our guy. No big deal.

[soccer10k]

I'm a cub fan that doesn't hate Larussa.

 

Heck, I kinda like what he was trying to do wth Maddux. He was just trying to get into his head. Maddux probably took it as a compliment.

 

 

In the book, "Three Nights in August" it speaks about LaRussa arguing balls and strikes (against maddux and the cubs) to the point of intentionally getting tossed just so he could get the ump to think a little more about calling that wide strike.

 

Did it work? Who really knows. That particular game, the Cards kept their heads above water and beat the Cub bullpen.

 

 

Again, I'd say it's just LaRussa trying to rattle our guy. No big deal.

 

That's a strategy that some managers/coaches try to employ. You always hear of basketball coaches purposefully saying the right things to referees to get themselves tossed in hopes of firing up their team. They usually figure that the team can't play any worse so why not get tossed. Same thing in baseball. Either to fire up your team or make the umps thing about certain calls. Definately an interesting strategy though.

[Jehrico]

I'm a cub fan that doesn't hate Larussa.

 

Heck, I kinda like what he was trying to do wth Maddux. He was just trying to get into his head. Maddux probably took it as a compliment.

 

 

In the book, "Three Nights in August" it speaks about LaRussa arguing balls and strikes (against maddux and the cubs) to the point of intentionally getting tossed just so he could get the ump to think a little more about calling that wide strike.

 

Did it work? Who really knows. That particular game, the Cards kept their heads above water and beat the Cub bullpen.

 

 

Again, I'd say it's just LaRussa trying to rattle our guy. No big deal.

 

That's a strategy that some managers/coaches try to employ. You always hear of basketball coaches purposefully saying the right things to referees to get themselves tossed in hopes of firing up their team. They usually figure that the team can't play any worse so why not get tossed. Same thing in baseball. Either to fire up your team or make the umps thing about certain calls. Definately an interesting strategy though.

 

I've got 72 people directly underneath me. I wish I could say something to my boss, get sent home for the day, and have my 72 people get fired up and increase productivity.