Lee (fractures, 8-12 weeks) and Eyre (day to day) hurt

[YearofDaCubs]

Despite what some people are saying, the season is NOT over. This is a huge blow, but good teams can overcome huge blows, and the Cubs have shown that they are a good team this year. The other players simply must step up and earn their salaries. The key is to tread water and be within striking distance. The second half of the season could be very good, once Lee and the injured pitchers are back. If the current players can't get it done, Hendry will make a move. He's shown that in the past.

 

Reason for frustration and disappointment? Yes. Reason to mail in the season? No. I simply refuse to accept a third consecutive lost season due to injuries without putting up a fight.

No one is suggesting the Cubs will mail it in or that they won't put up a fight. We're saying this team isn't good enough to do it effectively enough to win consistently.

 

Pitching will be the key over the long haul. The club can thrive with less offense if it's pitchers aren't giving up too many runs (LOL, I know that's a big DUH).

 

I'm optimistic about this team primarily because there are three good pitchers who aren't that far away from making a positive impact.

You are assuming they will be making a positive impact but in reality when all three are coming off inuries and two of the pitchers have severe injuries we don't know what we will be getting.

 

You're assuming that they won't make a positive impact. I know they can't be any worse than having Glendon, Jerome, and Sean in the rotation. At least Kerry, Mark, and Wade have the ability to overpower hitters and because of their reputations/ prior success they will give batters reason to pause instead of licking their chops at the thought of facing them.

Did you not see how bad Miller was when he was with the Red SOx last year? He was throwing 86mph fastballs not fooling anybody. Thinking he will come back and have a positive impact when he looked so bad last year is a stretch. I personally think Prior will be fine if he comes back but to me Wood is also a ? mark. He had shoulder surgery and changed his mechanics. I would err on the side of caution when all these changes are taking place on a pitcher.

 

Alot of what you say is true, but you do realize Miller was pitching with a bad arm last year, which is why he had surgery. Right?

He had two options right after he left the Astros, to rest the shoulder or have surgery, he decided to rest it and that didn't work out so well. So this significant injury he's had is from 2004 and some people expect him to have surgery and come back and be the same pitcher that he was in 2004 pre injury form? I'm skeptical.

[Roast]

So wanna hear a story? No? Good.

 

I come home from work. Sit down. Turn on the TV. "Derrek Lee out 2 months"

 

"WHAT THE...NOOOOOO!!!!. Bye bye season"

 

:(

 

 

I know we still have a shot and this isnt the end, but it sure feels like it. I'm gonna kick the next goat i see's ass.

[srbin84]

I don't see a problem with trading for a 1B and trading him for something else when Lee comes back.

[Blueheart05]

Despite what some people are saying, the season is NOT over. This is a huge blow, but good teams can overcome huge blows, and the Cubs have shown that they are a good team this year. The other players simply must step up and earn their salaries. The key is to tread water and be within striking distance. The second half of the season could be very good, once Lee and the injured pitchers are back. If the current players can't get it done, Hendry will make a move. He's shown that in the past.

 

Reason for frustration and disappointment? Yes. Reason to mail in the season? No. I simply refuse to accept a third consecutive lost season due to injuries without putting up a fight.

No one is suggesting the Cubs will mail it in or that they won't put up a fight. We're saying this team isn't good enough to do it effectively enough to win consistently.

 

Pitching will be the key over the long haul. The club can thrive with less offense if it's pitchers aren't giving up too many runs (LOL, I know that's a big DUH).

 

I'm optimistic about this team primarily because there are three good pitchers who aren't that far away from making a positive impact.

You are assuming they will be making a positive impact but in reality when all three are coming off inuries and two of the pitchers have severe injuries we don't know what we will be getting.

 

You're assuming that they won't make a positive impact. I know they can't be any worse than having Glendon, Jerome, and Sean in the rotation. At least Kerry, Mark, and Wade have the ability to overpower hitters and because of their reputations/ prior success they will give batters reason to pause instead of licking their chops at the thought of facing them.

Did you not see how bad Miller was when he was with the Red SOx last year? He was throwing 86mph fastballs not fooling anybody. Thinking he will come back and have a positive impact when he looked so bad last year is a stretch. I personally think Prior will be fine if he comes back but to me Wood is also a ? mark. He had shoulder surgery and changed his mechanics. I would err on the side of caution when all these changes are taking place on a pitcher.

 

Miller didn't have surgery to correct the problem while he was with the Red Sox... We won't know the exact impact until they return but I see no reason to be overly pessimistic. This team wasn't going anywhere with DLee and the current rotation so why should I, all of a sudden, become pessimistic about the pitching that's on the way? The fandom has been pointing to their return for weeks and there's no reason to abandon that idea.

 

 

You and I simply have a different approach; I prefer to think of the upside while you're admittedly more skeptical. I'm also realistic. I don't expect that those guys will be tossing shutouts every night but if they are able to harness their potential it's certainly better than what the team is currently featuring.

[YearofDaCubs]

Despite what some people are saying, the season is NOT over. This is a huge blow, but good teams can overcome huge blows, and the Cubs have shown that they are a good team this year. The other players simply must step up and earn their salaries. The key is to tread water and be within striking distance. The second half of the season could be very good, once Lee and the injured pitchers are back. If the current players can't get it done, Hendry will make a move. He's shown that in the past.

 

Reason for frustration and disappointment? Yes. Reason to mail in the season? No. I simply refuse to accept a third consecutive lost season due to injuries without putting up a fight.

No one is suggesting the Cubs will mail it in or that they won't put up a fight. We're saying this team isn't good enough to do it effectively enough to win consistently.

 

Pitching will be the key over the long haul. The club can thrive with less offense if it's pitchers aren't giving up too many runs (LOL, I know that's a big DUH).

 

I'm optimistic about this team primarily because there are three good pitchers who aren't that far away from making a positive impact.

You are assuming they will be making a positive impact but in reality when all three are coming off inuries and two of the pitchers have severe injuries we don't know what we will be getting.

 

You're assuming that they won't make a positive impact. I know they can't be any worse than having Glendon, Jerome, and Sean in the rotation. At least Kerry, Mark, and Wade have the ability to overpower hitters and because of their reputations/ prior success they will give batters reason to pause instead of licking their chops at the thought of facing them.

Did you not see how bad Miller was when he was with the Red SOx last year? He was throwing 86mph fastballs not fooling anybody. Thinking he will come back and have a positive impact when he looked so bad last year is a stretch. I personally think Prior will be fine if he comes back but to me Wood is also a ? mark. He had shoulder surgery and changed his mechanics. I would err on the side of caution when all these changes are taking place on a pitcher.

 

Miller didn't have surgery to correct the problem while he was with the Red Sox... We won't know the exact impact until they return but I see no reason to be overly pessimistic. This team wasn't going anywhere with DLee and the current rotation so why should I, all of a sudden, become pessimistic about the pitching that's on the way? The fandom has been pointing to their return for weeks and there's no reason to abandon that idea.

 

 

You and I simply have a different approach; I prefer to think of the upside while you're admittedly more skeptical. I'm also realistic. I don't expect that those guys will be tossing shutouts every night but if they are able to harness their potential it's certainly better than what the team is currently featuring.

Saying these injured pitchers are going to come back and have a postive impact is being optimistic about the situation. All I am saying is I'm skeptical and taking a wait and see approach instead of thinking these guys are going to come back and give us the impact we need to start winning more games.

[Blueheart05]

Despite what some people are saying, the season is NOT over. This is a huge blow, but good teams can overcome huge blows, and the Cubs have shown that they are a good team this year. The other players simply must step up and earn their salaries. The key is to tread water and be within striking distance. The second half of the season could be very good, once Lee and the injured pitchers are back. If the current players can't get it done, Hendry will make a move. He's shown that in the past.

 

Reason for frustration and disappointment? Yes. Reason to mail in the season? No. I simply refuse to accept a third consecutive lost season due to injuries without putting up a fight.

No one is suggesting the Cubs will mail it in or that they won't put up a fight. We're saying this team isn't good enough to do it effectively enough to win consistently.

 

Pitching will be the key over the long haul. The club can thrive with less offense if it's pitchers aren't giving up too many runs (LOL, I know that's a big DUH).

 

I'm optimistic about this team primarily because there are three good pitchers who aren't that far away from making a positive impact.

You are assuming they will be making a positive impact but in reality when all three are coming off inuries and two of the pitchers have severe injuries we don't know what we will be getting.

 

You're assuming that they won't make a positive impact. I know they can't be any worse than having Glendon, Jerome, and Sean in the rotation. At least Kerry, Mark, and Wade have the ability to overpower hitters and because of their reputations/ prior success they will give batters reason to pause instead of licking their chops at the thought of facing them.

Did you not see how bad Miller was when he was with the Red SOx last year? He was throwing 86mph fastballs not fooling anybody. Thinking he will come back and have a positive impact when he looked so bad last year is a stretch. I personally think Prior will be fine if he comes back but to me Wood is also a ? mark. He had shoulder surgery and changed his mechanics. I would err on the side of caution when all these changes are taking place on a pitcher.

 

Miller didn't have surgery to correct the problem while he was with the Red Sox... We won't know the exact impact until they return but I see no reason to be overly pessimistic. This team wasn't going anywhere with DLee and the current rotation so why should I, all of a sudden, become pessimistic about the pitching that's on the way? The fandom has been pointing to their return for weeks and there's no reason to abandon that idea.

 

 

You and I simply have a different approach; I prefer to think of the upside while you're admittedly more skeptical. I'm also realistic. I don't expect that those guys will be tossing shutouts every night but if they are able to harness their potential it's certainly better than what the team is currently featuring.

Saying these injured pitchers are going to come back and have a postive impact is being optimistic about the situation. All I am saying is I'm skeptical and taking a wait and see approach instead of thinking these guys are going to come back and give us the impact we need to start winning more games.

 

Right now the starters have an ERA around 4. I don't see Wood, Miller, and Prior being worse collectively. Thus, I don't see how their return can't be viewed as a positive; both on the field and in the clubhouse.

[YearofDaCubs]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

[XZero771679666304]

 

Right now the starters have an ERA around 4. I don't see Wood, Miller, and Prior being worse collectively. Thus, I don't see how their return can't be viewed as a positive; both on the field and in the clubhouse.

 

Exactly. From all accounts, Kerry looks really, really good. When he comes back, he is going to be an upgrade over whoever he replaces. It's not like Rusch and Marshall are tearing it up, or even pitching well. Saying Wood, Miller and Prior will make a positive impact if they return healthy is a statement of probability, not optimism.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

[YearofDaCubs]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

Exactly.

[sethuel1]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

Exactly.

huh?

[badger1679666666]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

Exactly.

 

They don't anymore.

[XZero771679666304]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

And as Miller was, Kerry was pitching at well less than 100%. Those numbers probably are not indiciative of what we can expect, at least in Kerry's case.

[badger1679666666]

Well, here we go. A lot of us really clamoured for a big middle of the order type hitter last offseason and we got Jones instead.

 

This is going to take lots and lots of career-best streaks, to overcome. Unless our pitching is lights out, we're in some serious trouble for the next couple months.

 

 

 

yup.

 

 

wtg hendry...you got your man

 

What "big middle of the order type hitters" were available last offseason? And I mean available so Brian Giles doesn't count.

 

I'm still waiting for an answer to this question.

[YearofDaCubs]

So you guys think these guys are going to come back from shoulder surgery and gain their pre-injury form? I'mnot saying that they won't but I'm not assuming anything at this point.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

Exactly.

 

I don't follow. You're not expecting them to be better that what we have based on their ERAs from last season, but you're conceding 2 of them were injured?

[wastra]

Well, here we go. A lot of us really clamoured for a big middle of the order type hitter last offseason and we got Jones instead.

 

This is going to take lots and lots of career-best streaks, to overcome. Unless our pitching is lights out, we're in some serious trouble for the next couple months.

 

What "big middle of the order type hitters" were available last offseason? And I mean available so Brian Giles doesn't count.

 

LOL. Perhaps I should have said "for the past 3 years."

[YearofDaCubs]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

Exactly.

 

I don't follow. You're not expecting them to be better that what we have based on their ERAs from last season, but you're conceding 2 of them were injured?

I'm taking the cautious approach here. I'm just saying that it's not guaranteed that these guys are going to come back and light it up especially when two of them are coming off a significant injury which needed surgery.

[Blueheart05]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

I don't feel a need to use ERA's from last year particularly because they were pitching injured and at this point,we have to figure that at least two of them had the problem corrected surgically. I'm looking for middle ground between what they've done lately and what they've exhibited career wise.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Blueheart05

[XZero771679666304]

So you guys think these guys are going to come back from shoulder surgery and gain their pre-injury form? I'mnot saying that they won't but I'm not assuming anything at this point.

 

Multiple sources are reporting that Wood looks really good. I think it is a safe bet he will be in physically better shape than he was last year when he returns. And whenever Wood has been healthy, he's been very, very good. Expecting him to better a 4.5+ era is in no way unrealistic.

 

I think the fact that they had their labrums repaired and are successfully recovering is a good indicator that they will probably be better than they were last year. It's only logical.

[badger1679666666]

So you guys think these guys are going to come back from shoulder surgery and gain their pre-injury form? I'mnot saying that they won't but I'm not assuming anything at this point.

 

Honestly, I think Woody is gonna ball like he hasn't since 2003. I don't think Miller is gonna do anything worthy though.

[XZero771679666304]

Well, here's the ERA from last year:

 

Kerry Wood: 4.23

Mark Prior: 3.67

Wade Miller: 4.95

 

2 of them had partially torn or frayed labrums.

Exactly.

 

I don't follow. You're not expecting them to be better that what we have based on their ERAs from last season, but you're conceding 2 of them were injured?

I'm taking the cautious approach here. I'm just saying that it's not guaranteed that these guys are going to come back and light it up especially when two of them are coming off a significant injury which needed surgery.

 

The point here is that even coming off injury, they are so much more talented than the pitchers that they will be replacing that they won't have to light it up to be an upgrade. They have both been repaired, and at the least we know Kerry is healthy now.

 

The chances of them being as bad or worse after being repaired than they were injured is pretty slim.

[Skers and Cubbies]

Well, Lee is out for a while now this will seem a dumb question.

But didn't Barrett play at 1st for a while or was he on the hot corner?

I think he was at third but i'm not sure.

So Mike Sweeney could be bought off the royals....Dear god did i just say that......Desperation is a stinky cologne.

[BCVM22]

Well, Lee is out for a while now this will seem a dumb question.

But didn't Barrett play at 1st for a while or was he on the hot corner?

I think he was at third but i'm not sure.

So Mike Sweeney could be bought off the royals....Dear god did i just say that......Desperation is a stinky cologne.

 

Barrett was drafted as a shortstop, came up through the Expos' system primarily as a third baseman, was converted to catcher late, split his rookie year between third base and catcher, and became a full-time catcher in 2001.

 

As for first base, he's made 6 career appearances there, 2 of them starts, for a total of 21 and two-thirds innings at the position, all of which were in 2002. He hasn't appeared at a position other than catcher since then.

[TruffleShuffle]

What about Prior and Guzman or Hill for Teixeira? Would Texas go for it?

 

Yes, I am sure Texas would be thrilled to trade a 25 year old stud who put up the 7th best OPS+ in the AL last year, for a major leaguer who can't stay healthy, plus either a minor leaguer who can't stay healthy, or a minor leaguer who might make it as a 4th starter. There may not be enough alcohol in the world to get Jon Daniels to consider that deal.