RF Options

[jjgman21]

We should've given Jones 1 year w/ a team option for 2007. That way, we have so much more flexibility

 

I agree although I'm guessing he wouldn't have come here for that (not that that's a bad thing!). I don't care that Reggie Sanders could be someone's grandfather, I'd still rather have signed him for 1 year than most of the other options out there this offseason.

 

you might not care how old Sanders is, but you should care that even when a young man, Sanders averaged about 110 games a year due to trips to the DL. further, as flukish as it may seem, Sanders is at about a decade of sucking one year and being good the next. at this point it's no longer a fluke, its a trend.

 

it's as if people pining for Reggie Sanders on a one year deal aren't even seeing the discussion of the Jones-KC negotiations. Sanders signed a two year deal at age 38. what makes people think Reggie would have signed a one year deal with the Cubs, when KC was offering two years?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

it's as if people pining for Reggie Sanders on a one year deal aren't even seeing the discussion of the Jones-KC negotiations. Sanders signed a two year deal at age 38. what makes people think Reggie would have signed a one year deal with the Cubs, when KC was offering two years?

 

Because if we don't go after Jones, then he signs with KC, which eliminates that offer?

[jjgman21]

it's as if people pining for Reggie Sanders on a one year deal aren't even seeing the discussion of the Jones-KC negotiations. Sanders signed a two year deal at age 38. what makes people think Reggie would have signed a one year deal with the Cubs, when KC was offering two years?

 

Because if we don't go after Jones, then he signs with KC, which eliminates that offer?

 

could be. good point.

 

doesn't mean people can just assume that Sanders would jump to signing a one year deal with the Cubs, or that Sanders was all that much better of an option.

[BigbadB]

Sanders has been signing 1 year deals for the last umpteen years.

 

Sanders on a 1 year deal>>>>>>>>>>>Jacque Jones on a 3 year deal.

 

The other plus about Sanders being injury prone, is it gives you the option of bringing up Pie if he is tearing it up.

 

Sanders is a riskier than Jones, but weighing the pros and cons, Sanders is the better bet.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So, now that Jones is hitting .071, how long before we pull the plug and either make a deal or call-up Pie?

[jjgman21]

Sanders has been signing 1 year deals for the last umpteen years.

 

Sanders on a 1 year deal>>>>>>>>>>>Jacque Jones on a 3 year deal.

 

The other plus about Sanders being injury prone, is it gives you the option of bringing up Pie if he is tearing it up.

 

Sanders is a riskier than Jones, but weighing the pros and cons, Sanders is the better bet.

 

except the past two deals he has signed.

 

you have no insight into the what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where, and for how long to sign. it's real easy to criticize a move or a non-move when assuming facts that you don't know to be true.

 

this just in....signing an injury prone player is a good move. gives the youngsters a chance to play on a Dusty Baker managed ball club, don't you know. c'mon. rushing Pie to the big leagues is not a wise move, and the mere suggestion is 20/20 hindsite. if Pie was struggling in Iowa, as I believe he did in winter ball, this great advantage to signing a 38 year old injury prone player would never have crossed your mind. exactly who is your replacement if Pie showed he wasn't ready? who's your replacement if the first two weeks in Iowa for Pie are an aberration?

 

I don't like the Jones signing, but stop framing every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry, and in particular, stop assuming you know all the factors involved in every transaction and non-transaction.

[Guest]

I wanted Jose Cruz for a one year deal. :(

[Transmogrified Tiger]

trade for Gomes now before he really goes off

[jjgman21]

I wanted Jose Cruz for a one year deal. :(

 

that would have been an excellent stop gap, but the Cubs never has the chance to even negotiate with him.

[BigbadB]

except the past two deals he has signed.

 

you have no insight into the what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where, and for how long to sign. it's real easy to criticize a move or a non-move when assuming facts that you don't know to be true.

 

this just in....signing an injury prone player is a good move. gives the youngsters a chance to play on a Dusty Baker managed ball club, don't you know. c'mon. rushing Pie to the big leagues is not a wise move, and the mere suggestion is 20/20 hindsite. if Pie was struggling in Iowa, as I believe he did in winter ball, this great advantage to signing a 38 year old injury prone player would never have crossed your mind. exactly who is your replacement if Pie showed he wasn't ready? who's your replacement if the first two weeks in Iowa for Pie are an aberration?

 

I don't like the Jones signing, but stop framing every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry, and in particular, stop assuming you know all the factors involved in every transaction and non-transaction.

 

Wow! I almost forgot that this isn't a message board for discussing baseball. Silly me. I forgot that if I don't have the insight to know what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where and for how long to sign, then I should probably say nothing. Oh wait, this is a message board. Silly you.

 

For the record, I didn't want Jacque Jones, Reggie Sanders, Juan Encarnacion or Jose Cruz. And if I want to criticize Hendry for his failures in landing the player that would help this team the most, I'll just go ahead and do that. If you wish to defend him as if he has never made a bad move in his life, it's your right. But, please don't tell me or anyone else how we should or shouldn't make posts.

 

You are right. I have no idea whether Reggie Sanders would have signed a 1 year deal. But, if it came down to 2 years with a bottom feeding, going nowhere team or playing on a team that has a chance to go somewhere, I don't think it's completely unreasonable to think he'd take a 1 year deal. If you do, so be it.

 

And I absolutely DO NOT frame every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry. I think you have me confused with someone else. So, feel free to quit exaggerating about what I do or don't do. I will say that I have been 100% against a signing of Jacque Jones from the very first day it was mentioned. If it was a 1 year deal, I wouldn't have made such a big deal of it. It's not a 1 year deal. It's 3 years. I hope Jacque Jones hits .500 and hits 80 HR's this year. But, there is no way I'm just going to sit back and pretend like I have been in favor of his signing just because he's signed. If he proves me wrong for the next 3 years, I'll eat crow and be happy to do so. But, I've been a Cub fan since 1971 and I want to see a World Series championship before I die.

 

I'm sure Hendry wants this Cub team to win just as much as I do. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he's the guy who will get them there. Each year they overspend in cash and years for guys like Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch and Jacque Jones is just that many more years he handcuffs the team from adding players who can make this team a perennial division champion.

[jjgman21]

except the past two deals he has signed.

 

you have no insight into the what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where, and for how long to sign. it's real easy to criticize a move or a non-move when assuming facts that you don't know to be true.

 

this just in....signing an injury prone player is a good move. gives the youngsters a chance to play on a Dusty Baker managed ball club, don't you know. c'mon. rushing Pie to the big leagues is not a wise move, and the mere suggestion is 20/20 hindsite. if Pie was struggling in Iowa, as I believe he did in winter ball, this great advantage to signing a 38 year old injury prone player would never have crossed your mind. exactly who is your replacement if Pie showed he wasn't ready? who's your replacement if the first two weeks in Iowa for Pie are an aberration?

 

I don't like the Jones signing, but stop framing every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry, and in particular, stop assuming you know all the factors involved in every transaction and non-transaction.

 

Wow! I almost forgot that this isn't a message board for discussing baseball. Silly me. I forgot that if I don't have the insight to know what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where and for how long to sign, then I should probably say nothing. Oh wait, this is a message board. Silly you.

 

For the record, I didn't want Jacque Jones, Reggie Sanders, Juan Encarnacion or Jose Cruz. And if I want to criticize Hendry for his failures in landing the player that would help this team the most, I'll just go ahead and do that. If you wish to defend him as if he has never made a bad move in his life, it's your right. But, please don't tell me or anyone else how we should or shouldn't make posts.

 

You are right. I have no idea whether Reggie Sanders would have signed a 1 year deal. But, if it came down to 2 years with a bottom feeding, going nowhere team or playing on a team that has a chance to go somewhere, I don't think it's completely unreasonable to think he'd take a 1 year deal. If you do, so be it.

 

And I absolutely DO NOT frame every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry. I think you have me confused with someone else. So, feel free to quit exaggerating about what I do or don't do. I will say that I have been 100% against a signing of Jacque Jones from the very first day it was mentioned. If it was a 1 year deal, I wouldn't have made such a big deal of it. It's not a 1 year deal. It's 3 years. I hope Jacque Jones hits .500 and hits 80 HR's this year. But, there is no way I'm just going to sit back and pretend like I have been in favor of his signing just because he's signed. If he proves me wrong for the next 3 years, I'll eat crow and be happy to do so. But, I've been a Cub fan since 1971 and I want to see a World Series championship before I die.

 

I'm sure Hendry wants this Cub team to win just as much as I do. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he's the guy who will get them there. Each year they overspend in cash and years for guys like Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch and Jacque Jones is just that many more years he handcuffs the team from adding players who can make this team a perennial division champion.

 

criticizing a move is one thing. discussing baseball on a baseball message board is one thing. making assumptions and viewing things in hindsite them implying those lead to known facts as your foundation to criticize and discuss baseball I suppose are one way to do so. you can go on a rant all you want, but that's exactly what you did, and continue to do.

 

you can discuss things rationally, taking every known fact into account, or you can speculate and come to conclusions based on known facts, or you can just make things up and frame the facts to fit your argument. I encourage you, me, and everyone not to do the later as it may actually lead to meaningful discussions regarding baseball and baseball transactions if we avoid doing so. you can claim I'm mistaking you for improperly framing your arguments, or you can recall our previous discussion regarding the facts you conveniently ignore when discussing Pierre v. Wilkerson over the winter.

 

 

as for the bolded part above, see the bolded part in my statement. brilliant!

[BigbadB]

Okay, now I recall where Goony's signature came from. I may have to borrow it.

[BigbadB]

Please explain how it's considered hindsight to be against the signings of Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch and Jacque Jones from the first day the contract is signed? I believe that would actually be considered foresight. If by some fluke, these 3 players carry the team to the promised land, then I suppose a better fitting description of my opinion would be shortsighted.

 

As far as the Wilkerson/Pierre signings, I apologize, but you'll have to refresh my memory. I wish I could remember every discussion I've had on this message board, but frankly, I can't.

[BigbadB]

I might also point out that I wasn't really giving a negative spin in this thread, unless that's the way you wish to to view it.

 

I gave my honest assessment of the situation. While some people think it will be easy to just trade Jones in the middle of this year or even at the end of this year, I don't see it that way. I could be wrong, but it is my opinion that Jones will be here the next 2 years, at least.

 

Now, I wasn't a fan of the Pierre trade, either. But, he's here. If Hendry lets Pierre walk without offering arbitration at the end of the year, it was clearly a bad trade considering how much was spent for a 1 year rental.

 

That said, if Murton locks down LF like he is showing he can do, there creates a problem of what to do with Pie, Jones and Pierre next year.

 

I don't think I was ranting at all. It's all speculation on my part, but I think the Cubs will offer Pierre arbitration or sign him to a long term deal. The Cubs don't have many positions they can fill going into next year with a lead off hitter. Unless the plan is to make Pie a lead off hitter, which I hope is not the plan.

 

My bringing up the Jones deal as a bad idea is just further speculation on my part that I don't think it will be easy to move him in the offseason, therefore finding a 1 year rental in RF (whoever that may be) made more sense.

[Backtobanks]

except the past two deals he has signed.

 

you have no insight into the what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where, and for how long to sign. it's real easy to criticize a move or a non-move when assuming facts that you don't know to be true.

 

this just in....signing an injury prone player is a good move. gives the youngsters a chance to play on a Dusty Baker managed ball club, don't you know. c'mon. rushing Pie to the big leagues is not a wise move, and the mere suggestion is 20/20 hindsite. if Pie was struggling in Iowa, as I believe he did in winter ball, this great advantage to signing a 38 year old injury prone player would never have crossed your mind. exactly who is your replacement if Pie showed he wasn't ready? who's your replacement if the first two weeks in Iowa for Pie are an aberration?

 

I don't like the Jones signing, but stop framing every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry, and in particular, stop assuming you know all the factors involved in every transaction and non-transaction.

 

Wow! I almost forgot that this isn't a message board for discussing baseball. Silly me. I forgot that if I don't have the insight to know what motivates Reggie Sanders when it comes to when, where and for how long to sign, then I should probably say nothing. Oh wait, this is a message board. Silly you.

 

For the record, I didn't want Jacque Jones, Reggie Sanders, Juan Encarnacion or Jose Cruz. And if I want to criticize Hendry for his failures in landing the player that would help this team the most, I'll just go ahead and do that. If you wish to defend him as if he has never made a bad move in his life, it's your right. But, please don't tell me or anyone else how we should or shouldn't make posts.

 

You are right. I have no idea whether Reggie Sanders would have signed a 1 year deal. But, if it came down to 2 years with a bottom feeding, going nowhere team or playing on a team that has a chance to go somewhere, I don't think it's completely unreasonable to think he'd take a 1 year deal. If you do, so be it.

 

And I absolutely DO NOT frame every transaction in the light most unfavorable to Hendry. I think you have me confused with someone else. So, feel free to quit exaggerating about what I do or don't do. I will say that I have been 100% against a signing of Jacque Jones from the very first day it was mentioned. If it was a 1 year deal, I wouldn't have made such a big deal of it. It's not a 1 year deal. It's 3 years. I hope Jacque Jones hits .500 and hits 80 HR's this year. But, there is no way I'm just going to sit back and pretend like I have been in favor of his signing just because he's signed. If he proves me wrong for the next 3 years, I'll eat crow and be happy to do so. But, I've been a Cub fan since 1971 and I want to see a World Series championship before I die.

 

I'm sure Hendry wants this Cub team to win just as much as I do. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he's the guy who will get them there. Each year they overspend in cash and years for guys like Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch and Jacque Jones is just that many more years he handcuffs the team from adding players who can make this team a perennial division champion.

 

I really don't think that overspending on players like Perez, Rusch, and Jones handcuffs the team. If you looked at the free agents available, Hendry needs to make decisions that are "somewhat" fiscally responsible. Offering Furcal $13 million per year for 4-5 years is ridiculous. Trying to bribe Giles to leave the West Coast with an offer of 17-18 million per year for 3-4 years is ridiculous. As for trades, going after Dunn, Abreu, or Tejada at the cost of Zambrano or Prior plus others is just as ridiculous. Everything I have heard or read has stated that Hendry will have the financial flexibility to add to the team at the trade deadline if they are in contention. I wish players like Rusch, Perez, and Jones were cheaper but if they manage to help the Cubs get into the playoffs, they will be worth the money.

[TheDude]

The writing's on the wall: J.Jones will struggle against lefties this year, and the Cubs will soon have a surplus of quality pitching. Trading pitching for a RF is close to a lock.

 

There is no writing on the wall. Jones is the everyday RF.

[srbin84]

People need to put the Giles thing to rest. It's not the Cubs fault he didn't come here. If paying him a lot more than he got would have brought him here, it wouldn't have been worth it anyway.

[goonys evil twin]

People need to put the Giles thing to rest. It's not the Cubs fault he didn't come here. If paying him a lot more than he got would have brought him here, it wouldn't have been worth it anyway.

 

It's not the Cubs fault? They didn't try to get him at all. I don't know about fault, but the Cubs are at least partially responsible for him not being here. More importantly, they are entirely responsible for the sad state of their outfield.

[Danny82]

And also responsible for the great shape of their infield and bullpen?

[goonys evil twin]

And also responsible for the great shape of their infield and bullpen?

 

And the mediocre shape of the team as a whole. That's what really matters. If this team isn't great, management hasn't done their job well enough.

[srbin84]

People need to put the Giles thing to rest. It's not the Cubs fault he didn't come here. If paying him a lot more than he got would have brought him here, it wouldn't have been worth it anyway.

 

It's not the Cubs fault? They didn't try to get him at all. I don't know about fault, but the Cubs are at least partially responsible for him not being here. More importantly, they are entirely responsible for the sad state of their outfield.

 

He signed for 30 mil/3 years with his hometown team that he never wanted to leave. How much more do you think it would have taken for him to change his mind and come to Chicago? He's 35 years old too. I believe the Blue Jays and maybe even the Yankees offered him more money and he turned it down.

[BigbadB]

Trying to bribe Giles to leave the West Coast with an offer of 17-18 million per year for 3-4 years is ridiculous.

 

At what point did it become 17-18m to convince Giles to leave San Diego? We don't know how much it would have taken. I just wanted Hendry to act like he was interested in knowing what it would take Giles to leave San Diego. If it was too much for Hendry at that point, so be it.

[BigbadB]

I'm not going to get into another Giles argument. It's really not worth it and I don't think there is anything that hasn't been covered already.

 

I think Giles will end up really regretting staying in San Diego. In order to keep him, they traded the guts of the team, which is going to end up biting them badly.

[PortlandCubsFan]

The writing's on the wall: J.Jones will struggle against lefties this year, and the Cubs will soon have a surplus of quality pitching. Trading pitching for a RF is close to a lock.

 

There is no writing on the wall. Jones is the everyday RF.

 

We'll see. Injuries may force the Cubs to address other weaknesses first. I will be happy if Jones' performance against lefties is the weakest link in July. But if Jones is around his career .616 OPS vs. LHP, and the rest of the team is basically healthy -- of course Hendry will try to find a better platoon player for Jones. IIRC, it was mentioned on another thread that there are 15 LH starters in the Central.

 

The alternative -- keeping 6 MLB-ready pitchers in AAA while your RF bats .220 half of the time -- just doesn't make any sense. (A healthy Cubs staff: Z, Prior, Maddux, Wood, Miller. Dempster, Howry, Eyre, Williamson, Ohman, Rusch, Novoa. AAA: Williams, Hill, Marshall, Guzman, Aardsma, Wuertz.)

 

That said, I'd love for Jones to bat .270 against lefties, and improve his value so the Cubs can trade him, and sign Carlos Lee to play alongside Pie and Murton next year.

 

FTR, my choice for 1-year RF stopgap was Preston Wilson.

[PortlandCubsFan]

I wanted Jose Cruz for a one year deal. :(

 

Thinking about it more, that was the RF the Cubs should've signed. Patience, power, defense (dropped fly ball in 2003 NLDS notwithstanding), and inexpensive, allowing them to pursue another FA OF this year, and C.Lee next year.

 

But it seems we didn't ever really have a shot at him.