Aramis Ramirez or Scott Rolen?

[CubinNY]

I'm sure that discussion is deleted by now, I think threads only go back to June or July now. Either way, if it wasn't you, I'd love to know why I just substituted your name in there.

 

So would I. Is your memory infalable or something?

 

No, but your memory of obscure articles re David Wright apparently is.

 

What is this? Pick on CubinNY day?

Now what are you talking about? The article was not obscure it was a spring training article on the Mets.

 

IIRC, you have criticized posters in the past when they fail to support their positions with "hard evidence". I thought it was interesting that you were arguing that you shouldn't have to do so to please other posters.

 

Did you read the entire thread?

 

Paste the "hard evidence" that say that Wright will be (or even MIGHT BE) moving to first base. Also paste the "hard evidence" that any scouts think that Wright can't hack it defensively at third base.

 

That's all.

 

I already did. And moving to 1st base eventually dosen't mean he will be working out at frist base anytime soon.

 

The spring training article said there was talk but the talk had quieted. Well, that is a nice way of saying people aren't convinced he is going to be good. And people are still talking. I live right outside of NYC I hear stuff all the time. I get the local paper. I am sorry I won't go and search the archives for a NY Times article that you won't read anyway. Just like the Newsday article that you wouldn't read.

 

The numbers say he wasn't good last year. He will improve but time will tell if he will become a better than average defensive third baseman.

[CubinNY]

http://mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050720&content_id=1138591&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym

 

His defense has prompted speculation outside the Shea Stadium offices that Wright could be shifted to first base.

Hopefully, this will end the mock cross examination garbage.

 

Thank you.

[K-Town]

http://mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050720&content_id=1138591&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym

 

His defense has prompted speculation outside the Shea Stadium offices that Wright could be shifted to first base.

Hopefully, this will end the mock cross examination garbage.

 

 

How does it end it? For one, it references "speculation outside of Shea Stadium offices". What the heck does that mean? Furthermore, an article posted by CubinNY (dated later than the one that you posted) says that those thoughts (of moving him to first base) were "quickly dismissed". The article that you posted was from July of last year. He played excellent defense the 2nd half of last year, and has yet to commit an error this year. He's not moving. That's my only point.

[UK1679666180]

Sure he's not moving, they have Delgado.

 

I don't see why a poster has to prove anything. Do you think he has some alterior motive towards discrediting Wright?

 

I think Wright is pretty solid defensively, if a poster doesn't think so and heard rumors that a shift might be in the works, how is he wrong?

[CubinNY]

Sure he's not moving, they have Delgado.

 

I don't see why a poster has to prove anything. Do you think he has some alterior motive towards discrediting Wright?

 

I think Wright is pretty solid defensively, if a poster doesn't think so and heard rumors that a shift might be in the works, how is he wrong?

 

Not really in the works, but an eventual move, as I wrote a number of times.

[RynoRules]

Sure he's not moving, they have Delgado.

 

I don't see why a poster has to prove anything. Do you think he has some alterior motive towards discrediting Wright?

 

I think Wright is pretty solid defensively, if a poster doesn't think so and heard rumors that a shift might be in the works, how is he wrong?

 

No, but we regularly ask folks to suport their opinions with evidence here; I was mostly wondering why that was not necessary in this case. I thought it was a disingenious assertion.

[CubinNY]

Sure he's not moving, they have Delgado.

 

I don't see why a poster has to prove anything. Do you think he has some alterior motive towards discrediting Wright?

 

I think Wright is pretty solid defensively, if a poster doesn't think so and heard rumors that a shift might be in the works, how is he wrong?

 

No, but we regularly ask folks to suport their opinions with evidence here; I was mostly wondering why that was not necessary in this case. I thought it was a disingenious assertion.

 

I did, twice!

[RynoRules]

Sure he's not moving, they have Delgado.

 

I don't see why a poster has to prove anything. Do you think he has some alterior motive towards discrediting Wright?

 

I think Wright is pretty solid defensively, if a poster doesn't think so and heard rumors that a shift might be in the works, how is he wrong?

 

No, but we regularly ask folks to suport their opinions with evidence here; I was mostly wondering why that was not necessary in this case. I thought it was a disingenious assertion.

 

I did, twice!

 

Look, I know this isn't worth continuing, but it is my opinion that you stated that you shouldn't have to b/c you live in NY. It ain't worth it, though. Bygones.

 

Back on topic: I favor ARam over Rolen, Wright over ARam at this point b/c of ARam's nagging health issues.

 

And ARod over them all.

[CubinNY]

Sure he's not moving, they have Delgado.

 

I don't see why a poster has to prove anything. Do you think he has some alterior motive towards discrediting Wright?

 

I think Wright is pretty solid defensively, if a poster doesn't think so and heard rumors that a shift might be in the works, how is he wrong?

 

No, but we regularly ask folks to suport their opinions with evidence here; I was mostly wondering why that was not necessary in this case. I thought it was a disingenious assertion.

 

I did, twice!

 

Look, I know this isn't worth continuing, but it is my opinion that you stated that you shouldn't have to b/c you live in NY. It ain't worth it, though. Bygones.

 

Back on topic: I favor ARam over Rolen, Wright over ARam at this point b/c of ARam's nagging health issues.

 

And ARod over them all.

 

Wholy smokes. I did say that, then I got pissed and in about two minutes I found two articles and tagged them. Then, UK found another one. You can go back and read them if you want.

 

I don't make stuff up.

[wolf stansson]

All this "Aramis is clearly better offensively (now or ever) stuff is just not true. A-Ram is going to be 28 in 2 months. Rolen just turned 31 8 days ago. Through age 27 Rolen had played 8 seasons; A-Ram has played 9. Rolen had won 4 gold gloves, and a rookie of the year award.

 

Rolen ( stats through age 28 season ) - 8 seasons, 1053 games, .279/.369/.501/.870.

 

Ramirez ( stats ) - 9 seasons, 896 games, .277/.328/.480/.808.

 

Basically the season Rolen was Ramirez' age was his first full season with the Cards. Age 27 he had a very similar year to A-Ram's last year, and followed it up with two extremely good seasons. We'll see how Rolen's season plays out this year, but right now it is undeniable that barring injury Ramirez has more prime years left in his body.

 

In my opinion, Rolen's career will be better when it is all said in done (defense included of course), but Ramirez should start to out perform him soon.

 

As for the allegations of his range of effectiveness defensively diminishing I would say that we are a week into the season, he just came off a serious injury and two surgeries, and I doubt he is playing all out. We'll see how this developes though.

[RynoRules]

Good points re their history offensively. My point was that I would take present-day ARam pover present-day Rolen due to the seriousness of that shoulder injury. Rolen's body of work is probably better than ARam's.

[CubinNY]

Good points re their history offensively. My point was that I would take present-day ARam pover present-day Rolen due to the seriousness of that shoulder injury. Rolen's body of work is probably better than ARam's.

 

I'll still take Wright over both of them. :D

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Good points re their history offensively. My point was that I would take present-day ARam pover present-day Rolen due to the seriousness of that shoulder injury. Rolen's body of work is probably better than ARam's.

 

I'll still take Wright over both of them. :D

 

Who do you put at 3rd when you move him to 1st? :lol:

[CubinNY]

Good points re their history offensively. My point was that I would take present-day ARam pover present-day Rolen due to the seriousness of that shoulder injury. Rolen's body of work is probably better than ARam's.

 

I'll still take Wright over both of them. :D

 

Who do you put at 3rd when you move him to 1st? :lol:

 

That was funny even the second time around. It depends on who the Cubs have in five or six years and if he doesn't progress on defense.

 

He is a special talent. He can take the ball out to any field. He actually reminds me of a young Mike Piazza (not defensively though)

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Good points re their history offensively. My point was that I would take present-day ARam pover present-day Rolen due to the seriousness of that shoulder injury. Rolen's body of work is probably better than ARam's.

 

Because of the questions around Rolen's power returning I would have selected A-Ram going in to the season. However so far it looks like Rolen's power back *knock on wood* therefore I'd take Rolen for this year and next.

[gus_dog]

Rolen, hands down. They're both injury prone, so that's a wash.

 

Offencively, I give Rolen the slight edge.

 

Defencively, Rolen's edge is the whole blade.

[Illini25]

Rolen

 

Exactly what gus dog said.

[Guest]

Fun fact: In 29 PA's so far this year, Wright has yet to K.

[RynoRules]

Fun fact: In 29 PA's so far this year, Wright has yet to K.

 

He's go stud written all over him; and from what I have read, the ladies in NYC agree.

 

 

http://www.baseballreference.com/w/wrighda03.shtml

 

.388 OBP at age 22. Looks like another Pujols.

[soccer10k]

It appears that I should have named this thread "Which NL 3B would you want on your team." My apologies go out to David Wright.

[Guest]

It appears that I should have named this thread "Which NL 3B would you want on your team." My apologies go out to David Wright.

I'd settle for Cabrera if I couldn't have Wright. ;)

 

Oh yeah, Rolen and Ramirez are both okay, too. :D

[Big Z 38]

Ramirez. He's better than Rolen, but he needs to keep his legs/groin healthy

[Coach C]

Which brings up my question. Is Aramis usually a slow-starter when the season starts?

[NorthsideAvenger]

Look, I DO NOT want ANY other 3rd base over Aramis. Look I realize that Rolen is better defensively, and you could make the case that Wright and Cabrera are better then ARam. But I don't care....ARam, IMO, is widely popular in Chicago (as is RODAN), if the Cubs traded for or sign somebody to replace at 3rd, that said player would be under pressure from the Cubs fans to match ARam production to justify losing ARam.

 

In other words, I know this sounds a bit of homerism...but there is NOT a third baseman I would take over ARam right now. I'm not saying ARam is the best at position, but he is so darn close though.

 

A-rod? :wink:

 

Nope...Cause I still see ARod as the GAME'S best SS, except Jeter won't get off his high horse, and let the superior player have the position.

[NorthsideAvenger]

To be honest, saying who is better....is a OPINION based, not actually fact. I like Ramirez, a little bit better, but I wouldn't EDMONDS it if the Cubs had Rolen.