Prior on an "accelerated" schedule

[srbin84]

Well, I'm more inclined to believe he is weak bodied/brittle. He has a lot of talent and is a great pitcher, but when you average his numbers with the Ruschs and Koronkas of the world, it doesn't look great.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I see no evidence that he is weak-bodied, frail or brittle. You've done nothing to persuade me. He's a healthy young man who places an enormous strain on his arm in the course of pitching. Is Josh Beckett a wimp because of his blisters? What about Gagne and his multiple elbow surgeries (I believe he's on #3)? Kerry Wood? Jason Isringhausen?

 

Injuries happen. Patricularly to pitchers.

 

No, they're not wimps, they're liabilities at their contracts. Prior isn't at that point yet, but he will be in a couple years. Better to trade him before that happens.

 

Guess what? Every pitcher is a liability in his contract. At any point, a pitcher could blow out his elbow. Pitching, by its very nature, is extremely hard on a human body. Injuries and breakdowns will happen. That's why you invest in additional pitching capability and develop young pitchers as much as you can.

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

[XZero771679666304]

 

Not getting tests for reported pain (which turned out to be consistent with the diagnosis) would be nothing short of irresponsible in this case, especially when you have the resources that the Cubs do.

 

I said it before, and I'll say it again: I have no problem with him being shut down and tested.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

[srbin84]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

But isn't Zambrano a pretty big risk considering the high pitch totals he's racked up the past few years? Prior's managed to avoid the high pitch counts over that time, so he may be a better bet going forward.

[srbin84]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

But isn't Zambrano a pretty big risk considering the high pitch totals he's racked up the past few years? Prior's managed to avoid the high pitch counts over that time, so he may be a better bet going forward.

 

No, I don't think so. Zambrano has a very strong body. Some guys just do, some don't. Look at Randy Johnson. He has insane pitch counts and never gets hurt.

[A New Era]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

But isn't Zambrano a pretty big risk considering the high pitch totals he's racked up the past few years? Prior's managed to avoid the high pitch counts over that time, so he may be a better bet going forward.

 

No, I don't think so. Zambrano has a very strong body. Some guys just do, some don't. Look at Randy Johnson. He has insane pitch counts and never gets hurt.

 

Still no reason to overwork zambrano. But I do agree. Z has just proven his body can hold up. He is one tuff, and good pitcher.

[Guest]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

But isn't Zambrano a pretty big risk considering the high pitch totals he's racked up the past few years? Prior's managed to avoid the high pitch counts over that time, so he may be a better bet going forward.

 

No, I don't think so. Zambrano has a very strong body. Some guys just do, some don't. Look at Randy Johnson. He has insane pitch counts and never gets hurt.

Yes, he does.

 

Look throughout his career and he's had many injuries that caused him to miss minor and major amounts of time.

[NCCubFan]

Yes, he does.

 

Look throughout his career and he's had many injuries that caused him to miss minor and major amounts of time.

I believe it was just two years ago that he missed a significant portion of the season with a knee injury.

[goonys evil twin]

You can't dispute the fact that he misses way more starts and goes on the DL more often than other pitchters. This is bad because it forces us to play bums like Rusch, Koronka, etc. That's bad because it makes the Cubs lose games.

 

I think the Cubs would be starting Rusch with or without Prior. They like Glendon. They like paying Glendon and they like playing Glendon. Why? I do not know, maybe Hendry and Baker's brains are as fragile as Prior.

[USSoccer]

You can't dispute the fact that he misses way more starts and goes on the DL more often than other pitchters. This is bad because it forces us to play bums like Rusch, Koronka, etc. That's bad because it makes the Cubs lose games.

 

I think the Cubs would be starting Rusch with or without Prior. They like Glendon. They like paying Glendon and they like playing Glendon. Why? I do not know, maybe Hendry and Baker's brains are as fragile as Prior.

 

Hendry's long been in love with having a token lefty in the rotation. Rusch just happens to be the token vet lefty du jour.

[goonys evil twin]

Yes, he does.

 

Look throughout his career and he's had many injuries that caused him to miss minor and major amounts of time.

I believe it was just two years ago that he missed a significant portion of the season with a knee injury.

 

2003, missed half the year, wasn't any good the rest of the year.

[rawaction]

You can't dispute the fact that he misses way more starts and goes on the DL more often than other pitchters. This is bad because it forces us to play bums like Rusch, Koronka, etc. That's bad because it makes the Cubs lose games.

 

I think the Cubs would be starting Rusch with or without Prior. They like Glendon. They like paying Glendon and they like playing Glendon. Why? I do not know, maybe Hendry and Baker's brains are as fragile as Prior.

 

That's what's annoying. The Cubs demoted Williams for a bad spring, but never even considered the same for Rusch who was just as bad.

[goonys evil twin]

You can't dispute the fact that he misses way more starts and goes on the DL more often than other pitchters. This is bad because it forces us to play bums like Rusch, Koronka, etc. That's bad because it makes the Cubs lose games.

 

I think the Cubs would be starting Rusch with or without Prior. They like Glendon. They like paying Glendon and they like playing Glendon. Why? I do not know, maybe Hendry and Baker's brains are as fragile as Prior.

 

That's what's annoying. The Cubs demoted Williams for a bad spring, but never even considered the same for Rusch who was just as bad.

 

Williams is young and unrproven, so they weren't sure if he could maintain that bad spring into the regular season. Glendon is proven, so they know he can maintain his bad spring in the regular season. Or something like that.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

But isn't Zambrano a pretty big risk considering the high pitch totals he's racked up the past few years? Prior's managed to avoid the high pitch counts over that time, so he may be a better bet going forward.

 

No, I don't think so. Zambrano has a very strong body. Some guys just do, some don't. Look at Randy Johnson. He has insane pitch counts and never gets hurt.

 

Uhmm..if you're going to name workhorse pitchers, Johnson isn't an example of someone who never gets hurt.

 

Randy missed nearly half a season in 2003. He also missed a large portion of a season in 1996 abd some time in 1994 as well. Throughout the years, Randy has had minor bumps with his back and knee.

 

He hasn't had long stretches on the disabled list, but he isn't the picture of health either.

 

Furthermore, when Johnson was 25, he had a grand total of 10 career wins and 186 IP.

[jjgman21]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

the example you use takes the conversation completely out of context. you make guys like Z seem a dime a dozen. health and consistency....so pitchers like Maddux are the answer? healthy, consistent, he's perfect!

 

and about trading those declining assets, think you'll get full value for them, or is it reasonable to do a cost benefit analysis and determine it is better to keep them ie. 20 starts of Prior at his current salary is well worth the price? Wood's trade value is nothing. think you can work out a deal that would make NOT taking a risk on him one more year worth it, keeping in mind that you'll have to eat most of his contract, and will get next to nothing in return?

 

is one possible approach having a back up plan of spending about three million - as opposed to the astronomical sum you make it out to be - on servicable starters (Rusch, Miller, Williams) and keeping a stable of capable starters in the minors instead of trading them away (Hill, Guz, Marshall, Ryu, etc.)?

[srbin84]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

the example you use takes the conversation completely out of context. you make guys like Z seem a dime a dozen. health and consistency....so pitchers like Maddux are the answer? healthy, consistent, he's perfect!

 

and about trading those declining assets, think you'll get full value for them, or is it reasonable to do a cost benefit analysis and determine it is better to keep them ie. 20 starts of Prior at his current salary is well worth the price? Wood's trade value is nothing. think you can work out a deal that would make NOT taking a risk on him one more year worth it, keeping in mind that you'll have to eat most of his contract, and will get next to nothing in return?

 

is one possible approach having a back up plan of spending about three million - as opposed to the astronomical sum you make it out to be - on servicable starters (Rusch, Miller, Williams) and keeping a stable of capable starters in the minors instead of trading them away (Hill, Guz, Marshall, Ryu, etc.)?

 

So if Prior gets himself into Wood's situation would you just want him to walk as a free agent? What do you want to see the Cubs do with Wood? If we could just pull up guys from the minors that would pitch well right away like a lot of other teams do, I'd feel better about the situation. If we could have gotten Abreu or Tejada, I would have been fine with that as far as the value goes. Let's also not forget Prior has had an ERA around 4 the last two years. Like I said, maybe he was pitching differently to avoid injury or something, but that's another problem. If he was pitching like a very good pitcher, maybe I'd be inclined to cut him more slack, I don't know.

[srbin84]

For those who defend Prior, what is the defense and reason for optimism with a Pitcher coming off two years of 21 GS 4.02 ERA and 27 GS 3.67 ERA, who is currently on the DL? I'd just like to know why you guys think he is going to come back, pitch the rest of the season and pitch a lot better.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

For those who defend Prior, what is the defense and reason for optimism with a Pitcher coming off two years of 21 GS 4.02 ERA and 27 GS 3.67 ERA, who is currently on the DL? I'd just like to know why you guys think he is going to come back, pitch the rest of the season and pitch a lot better.

 

Chris Carpenter, anyone?

[jjgman21]

 

The answer isn't just to accept it and spend millions on extra pitchers for the inevitable injuries.

 

So is the answer to never spend money on pitching? That seems a lot more reasonable than saying trade Prior now because 2 years down the road he'll be making a lot of money and there's a chance he won't be healthy.

 

The answer is to trade declining assets if it's reasonable to believe they won't return to form and invest in pitchers you can be confident will be healthy and consistent like Zambrano for example.

 

the example you use takes the conversation completely out of context. you make guys like Z seem a dime a dozen. health and consistency....so pitchers like Maddux are the answer? healthy, consistent, he's perfect!

 

and about trading those declining assets, think you'll get full value for them, or is it reasonable to do a cost benefit analysis and determine it is better to keep them ie. 20 starts of Prior at his current salary is well worth the price? Wood's trade value is nothing. think you can work out a deal that would make NOT taking a risk on him one more year worth it, keeping in mind that you'll have to eat most of his contract, and will get next to nothing in return?

 

is one possible approach having a back up plan of spending about three million - as opposed to the astronomical sum you make it out to be - on servicable starters (Rusch, Miller, Williams) and keeping a stable of capable starters in the minors instead of trading them away (Hill, Guz, Marshall, Ryu, etc.)?

 

So if Prior gets himself into Wood's situation would you just want him to walk as a free agent? What do you want to see the Cubs do with Wood? If we could just pull up guys from the minors that would pitch well right away like a lot of other teams do, I'd feel better about the situation. If we could have gotten Abreu or Tejada, I would have been fine with that as far as the value goes. Let's also not forget Prior has had an ERA around 4 the last two years. Like I said, maybe he was pitching differently to avoid injury or something, but that's another problem. If he was pitching like a very good pitcher, maybe I'd be inclined to cut him more slack, I don't know.

 

until 2007 when both players will be vastly overpaid for their production? then a new round of arm-chair GM'ing can begin.

[srbin84]

 

until 2007 when both players will be vastly overpaid for their production? then a new round of arm-chair GM'ing can begin.

 

Tejada is 29 and Abreu is 32. You expect them to delcline majorly this or next year? I guess you are not a fan of resigning Lee because he will have the same contracts or worse as he ages.

[jjgman21]

 

until 2007 when both players will be vastly overpaid for their production? then a new round of arm-chair GM'ing can begin.

 

Tejada is 29 and Abreu is 32. You expect them to delcline majorly this or next year? I guess you are not a fan of resigning Lee because he will have the same contracts or worse as he ages.

 

actually, I'm not a huge fan of extending Lee beyond 2008. but there's a gigantic difference between the two situations. if one goes bad, the team is using payroll inefficiently. if the other goes bad, the team is using payroll inefficiently AND loses Mark fricken Prior.

 

Abreu's and Tejada's contract escalate as time goes by. in other words, the worse they become, the more they cost. in Tejada's case, he'll even cost an extra $2M in both 2010 and 2011, when he is long gone.

 

Tejada will be 30 in May. what concens me is paying him 12-13M per season in 2008 and 2009, after he's sure to decline.

 

Abreu's decline already began. his OPS+ dropped to 123 last year at age 31. the chances of a rebound and sustaining his old numbers for three years is about zero.

 

I have no problem with getting rid of guys that hurt the organization overall. however, that is not the easiest thing to do, and the last thing you want to do is put the team into a worse situation down the road.

[srbin84]

Well, if we could get a younger star for Prior, I would prefer that. I don't know if that is possible though. And I doubt Lee would sign a two or even three year extension.