Hendry extended through 2008

[JC]

Perez, Rusch, Eyre, Howry, Jones, Dempster. These guys add up to a sizable chunk of payroll and I don't think any of them are worth it. Dempster might be, but I don't see how his track record justified his contract. I do agree with Tim though, the amount of roster space these guys take up might actually be more annoying than their salaries. Hard call there.

 

I can't complain about Dempster's contract. And when you look at committments around the league 2-3 years from now, the Cubs are among the lowest of any team (not counting the extremely low payroll teams). This just isn't among his worst sins. They have lots of freedom of movement in the next couple years. The problem is lack of great talent locked-up, as opposed to too much mediocrity taking up money.

 

Perhaps it goes without saying, but that flexibility is only valuable upon the availability of talent to acquire with that payroll money. If a front office chooses to pay a FA just because they need to spend money, obviously, that is a detriment. While the Cubs needed a LFer, Jones' contract feels like it fall somewhat in this category. $16 million for a player you double-switch out on opening day? Something just doesn't jive.

 

I don't think there is much confusion that I think any extension (or talk thereof) at this point is a mistake. My feelings about Hendry are well documented. While they are often mischaracterized as simple bias, the fact is I don't agree with Hendry's philosophy and impulsiveness (among other things). But, above all, I simply haven't seen the results I expect from a GM with the budget he has at his disposal. As someone said earlier (perhaps Goony), I don't see why you go through the entire offseason and ST without an extension, only to offer one the first week of the season. It just makes little sense to me.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Forget Hendry. Dayton Moore please.

 

The sooner the McFailure is ditched, the sooner we can have a decent GM and a manager who isn't borderline [expletive].

[Mizzou]

Hendry is a good GM - I don't have a problem with extending him. The timing is a bit odd though.

[Jon]

Hendry had the farm system, payroll, and major league talent but hasn't done much with them. Certainly not enough to deserve an extension. His desire to overspend and commit too many years to mediocre or talentless veterans has not helped the team at all.

[RynoRules]

Hendry is a good GM - I don't have a problem with extending him. The timing is a bit odd though.

 

Agreed. Anyone have any ideas as to why they waited until now?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Hendry is a good GM - I don't have a problem with extending him. The timing is a bit odd though.

 

Agreed. Anyone have any ideas as to why they waited until now?

 

b/c we have a winning record.

[Bruce Miles]

The Trib guys will regret this when they realize Hendry has saddled the payroll with a bunch of unwise and expensive multi-year committments.

 

I don't know about that. The Cubs have a very low committment 2-3 years down the road. They shouldn't be guaranteeing anything to Perez, Rusch or Jones beyond this year. And he went a bit long on the middle relief. But he has much bigger faults than "saddling the payroll" with bad contracts.

You mean like saddling the 25 man roster with mediocre talent, thinning a farm system that he had previously worked so hard to build, etc.?

 

I don't know about "thinning the farm system." A few years ago, everybody, including Baseball America was gaga over a system that included Patterson, Choi, Kelton, Goldbach, Christensen, Hill, Hinske, Cruz, Zambrano and others.

 

Hendry used that system to trade some of these "prospects" for players such as Lee and Ramirez. Not to mention Jerome Williams and Aardsma, who threw the heck out of the ball in spring training.

 

My guess is that the current system will provide more serviceable players, not necessarily stars, than the system everybody raved about a few years ago. Guys like Dopirak, Sing, Fox, Reyes, Ryu, Theriot, Guzman, Pie, Coats, Marshall, McGehee are likely to make more of an impact than the aforementioned players. And Pie is a possible star. And don't be surprised if Hendry uses some of these players and guys like Rich Hill, in future trades.

 

And mediocre talent abounds in the major leagues these days.

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry is a good GM - I don't have a problem with extending him. The timing is a bit odd though.

 

Agreed. Anyone have any ideas as to why they waited until now?

 

To give the impression that Andy sat back and studied the offseason moves, and came to the conclusion that Jim did a really good job?

[Bruce Miles]

Hendry is a good GM - I don't have a problem with extending him. The timing is a bit odd though.

 

Agreed. Anyone have any ideas as to why they waited until now?

 

To give the impression that Andy sat back and studied the offseason moves, and came to the conclusion that Jim did a really good job?

 

This has been in the works for some time.

[goonys evil twin]

And mediocre talent abounds in the major leagues these days.

 

Yes, this is true, but so do mediocre front office and coaching talents. And I don't see the point in aggressively pursuing either group. Why not wait to see if the work brings about results? You don't have to sign Greg Maddux today, why Hendry? I don't see the point in getting locked-in to an extension with a guy (and then probably two guys) who hasn't done anything to make people think this team is better off than they would be with anybody else at the helm. What is the point of pretending he had to earn an extension in the offseason, then signing him to an extension a week into the season? If he earned that extension on the offseason, the deal could have been done long ago. If you wanted to wait and see how things turn out, then you better wait until July at the earliest.

[Guest]

The Trib guys will regret this when they realize Hendry has saddled the payroll with a bunch of unwise and expensive multi-year committments.

 

I don't know about that. The Cubs have a very low committment 2-3 years down the road. They shouldn't be guaranteeing anything to Perez, Rusch or Jones beyond this year. And he went a bit long on the middle relief. But he has much bigger faults than "saddling the payroll" with bad contracts.

You mean like saddling the 25 man roster with mediocre talent, thinning a farm system that he had previously worked so hard to build, etc.?

 

I don't know about "thinning the farm system." A few years ago, everybody, including Baseball America was gaga over a system that included Patterson, Choi, Kelton, Goldbach, Christensen, Hill, Hinske, Cruz, Zambrano and others.

 

Hendry used that system to trade some of these "prospects" for players such as Lee and Ramirez. Not to mention Jerome Williams and Aardsma, who threw the heck out of the ball in spring training.

 

My guess is that the current system will provide more serviceable players, not necessarily stars, than the system everybody raved about a few years ago. Guys like Dopirak, Sing, Fox, Reyes, Ryu, Theriot, Guzman, Pie, Coats, Marshall, McGehee are likely to make more of an impact than the aforementioned players. And Pie is a possible star. And don't be surprised if Hendry uses some of these players and guys like Rich Hill, in future trades.

 

And mediocre talent abounds in the major leagues these days.

I don't know, Bruce.

 

In 2002, the Cubs had the #1 rated farm system and the top 6 looked like this: Prior, Cruz, Choi, Kelton, Hill, Zambrano. That's two bona fide stars, two fringe-regular players for a couple years, one backup and one bust. And I'd love to see what Choi and Hill would have been able to do if their development hadn't been stalled with the hand/wrist and back/leg injuries, respectively (at least, I think that's what happened to Hill, iirc). Go a little deeper on that list and it included guys like Guzman, Ryu, Cedeno, Beltran, Welly, Willis, Sisco, Theriot & Wuertz. All of these guys have seen the majors except the first two, who will see it at some point soon. Willis adds another star to the list of players in the system in 2002. Cedeno, Wuertz & Sisco add three more solid regulars. Guzman and Ryu make up part of the current core of players. The system that Hendry built as farm director and took over as GM in 2002 was almost ridiculously deep.

 

If the Cubs get nearly that much service out of the current group of players I'll be really surprised. The overall quality of the system is part of what helped raise the reputation of guys like Hill and Choi to the point where they had enough value to get ARam and Lee. I don't see players in the system currently who have enough value to land marquee guys like that except for Pie and, maybe, a couple of the pitchers. And Pie is not really any more highly regarded now than Choi was back at that time. Another point is that we were able to trade some of these guys without feeling it too badly because there were so many good prospects. If we traded away Pie right now, who would be left on the position side with star potential unless Dopirak or Harvey can turn things around in a hurry? And while we have some good pitchers in the system right now, they certainly don't compare to the Prior/Cruz/Z troika.

 

There are certainly still players there who are going to provide value to the team. But I don't think there's any question that the system is shallower than when Hendry moved up to GM and has a lot less star potential.

[Neuby]

The Trib guys will regret this when they realize Hendry has saddled the payroll with a bunch of unwise and expensive multi-year committments.

 

I don't know about that. The Cubs have a very low committment 2-3 years down the road. They shouldn't be guaranteeing anything to Perez, Rusch or Jones beyond this year. And he went a bit long on the middle relief. But he has much bigger faults than "saddling the payroll" with bad contracts.

You mean like saddling the 25 man roster with mediocre talent, thinning a farm system that he had previously worked so hard to build, etc.?

Is the thinning out of the farm system because of injuries is his fault? Ramirez, Nomar, Lee,Pierre,Murton, Williams,Barett, is a pretty nice return on that farm system along with Cedeno,Prior,Wood,Wuertz,Ohman among others are a core from the farm to build on.

[CubDad4Ever]

Yeah im so mad we signed a hall of famer , who makes his starts and gives us a chance to win games. Lord knows AJ Burnett deserves more. Oh thats right he wont start for a while. Coach L

[Bruce Miles]

The Trib guys will regret this when they realize Hendry has saddled the payroll with a bunch of unwise and expensive multi-year committments.

 

I don't know about that. The Cubs have a very low committment 2-3 years down the road. They shouldn't be guaranteeing anything to Perez, Rusch or Jones beyond this year. And he went a bit long on the middle relief. But he has much bigger faults than "saddling the payroll" with bad contracts.

You mean like saddling the 25 man roster with mediocre talent, thinning a farm system that he had previously worked so hard to build, etc.?

 

I don't know about "thinning the farm system." A few years ago, everybody, including Baseball America was gaga over a system that included Patterson, Choi, Kelton, Goldbach, Christensen, Hill, Hinske, Cruz, Zambrano and others.

 

Hendry used that system to trade some of these "prospects" for players such as Lee and Ramirez. Not to mention Jerome Williams and Aardsma, who threw the heck out of the ball in spring training.

 

My guess is that the current system will provide more serviceable players, not necessarily stars, than the system everybody raved about a few years ago. Guys like Dopirak, Sing, Fox, Reyes, Ryu, Theriot, Guzman, Pie, Coats, Marshall, McGehee are likely to make more of an impact than the aforementioned players. And Pie is a possible star. And don't be surprised if Hendry uses some of these players and guys like Rich Hill, in future trades.

 

And mediocre talent abounds in the major leagues these days.

I don't know, Bruce.

 

In 2002, the Cubs had the #1 rated farm system and the top 6 looked like this: Prior, Cruz, Choi, Kelton, Hill, Zambrano. That's two bona fide stars, two fringe-regular players for a couple years, one backup and one bust. And I'd love to see what Choi and Hill would have been able to do if their development hadn't been stalled with the hand/wrist and back/leg injuries, respectively (at least, I think that's what happened to Hill, iirc). Go a little deeper on that list and it included guys like Guzman, Ryu, Cedeno, Beltran, Welly, Willis, Sisco, Theriot & Wuertz. All of these guys have seen the majors except the first two, who will see it at some point soon. Willis adds another star to the list of players in the system in 2002. Cedeno, Wuertz & Sisco add three more solid regulars. Guzman and Ryu make up part of the current core of players. The system that Hendry built as farm director and took over as GM in 2002 was almost ridiculously deep.

 

If the Cubs get nearly that much service out of the current group of players I'll be really surprised. The overall quality of the system is part of what helped raise the reputation of guys like Hill and Choi to the point where they had enough value to get ARam and Lee. I don't see players in the system currently who have enough value to land marquee guys like that except for Pie and, maybe, a couple of the pitchers. And Pie is not really any more highly regarded now than Choi was back at that time. Another point is that we were able to trade some of these guys without feeling it too badly because there were so many good prospects. If we traded away Pie right now, who would be left on the position side with star potential unless Dopirak or Harvey can turn things around in a hurry? And while we have some good pitchers in the system right now, they certainly don't compare to the Prior/Cruz/Z troika.

 

There are certainly still players there who are going to provide value to the team. But I don't think there's any question that the system is shallower than when Hendry moved up to GM and has a lot less star potential.

 

Good points all, Tim. There were a lot of red flags among baseball people about Hill and Choi before any injuries came along. Scott Boras did a good job of ballyhooing Hill. Once he got into pro ball, a lot of flaws in his game were exposed. Scouts saw a lot of flaws in Choi's game even before 2003, with one telling us he'd be in the minor leagues that season _ and this was in March of 2003.

 

The Cubs have gotten pretty good feelers already on guys like Eric Patterson, Marshall, Gallagher and Hill. The jury is still out on guys like Harvey, Dopirak, Grant Johnson, Veal and Pawelek.

 

The Cubs development staff did a pretty good job in turning Wuertz's career around. (He's another good guy, and I hope his bad spring was just a fluke.)

 

It's just so hard to tell. That's why I don't get too caught up in saying how great or lousy things look at the moment.

[Guest]

The Trib guys will regret this when they realize Hendry has saddled the payroll with a bunch of unwise and expensive multi-year committments.

 

I don't know about that. The Cubs have a very low committment 2-3 years down the road. They shouldn't be guaranteeing anything to Perez, Rusch or Jones beyond this year. And he went a bit long on the middle relief. But he has much bigger faults than "saddling the payroll" with bad contracts.

You mean like saddling the 25 man roster with mediocre talent, thinning a farm system that he had previously worked so hard to build, etc.?

Is the thinning out of the farm system because of injuries is his fault? Ramirez, Nomar, Lee,Pierre,Murton, Williams,Barett, is a pretty nice return on that farm system along with Cedeno,Prior,Wood,Wuertz,Ohman among others are a core from the farm to build on.

Right, those are returns on the farm system from 2002. My point is that since the farm system is now thinner, making those types of moves in the future is going to be more difficult. I have no objections to how the system has been used (none major, anyway). It is in the replenishment of the system that I have strong objections.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Right, those are returns on the farm system from 2002. My point is that since the farm system is now thinner, making those types of moves in the future is going to be more difficult. I have no objections to how the system has been used (none major, anyway). It is in the replenishment of the system that I have strong objections.

 

It's just like the logging companies who plant 2 trees for every 1 they cut down. It seems as though the Cubs have been doing the opposite.

[Guest]

You mean like saddling the 25 man roster with mediocre talent, thinning a farm system that he had previously worked so hard to build, etc.?

 

I don't know about "thinning the farm system." A few years ago, everybody, including Baseball America was gaga over a system that included Patterson, Choi, Kelton, Goldbach, Christensen, Hill, Hinske, Cruz, Zambrano and others.

 

Hendry used that system to trade some of these "prospects" for players such as Lee and Ramirez. Not to mention Jerome Williams and Aardsma, who threw the heck out of the ball in spring training.

 

My guess is that the current system will provide more serviceable players, not necessarily stars, than the system everybody raved about a few years ago. Guys like Dopirak, Sing, Fox, Reyes, Ryu, Theriot, Guzman, Pie, Coats, Marshall, McGehee are likely to make more of an impact than the aforementioned players. And Pie is a possible star. And don't be surprised if Hendry uses some of these players and guys like Rich Hill, in future trades.

 

And mediocre talent abounds in the major leagues these days.

I don't know, Bruce.

 

In 2002, the Cubs had the #1 rated farm system and the top 6 looked like this: Prior, Cruz, Choi, Kelton, Hill, Zambrano. That's two bona fide stars, two fringe-regular players for a couple years, one backup and one bust. And I'd love to see what Choi and Hill would have been able to do if their development hadn't been stalled with the hand/wrist and back/leg injuries, respectively (at least, I think that's what happened to Hill, iirc). Go a little deeper on that list and it included guys like Guzman, Ryu, Cedeno, Beltran, Welly, Willis, Sisco, Theriot & Wuertz. All of these guys have seen the majors except the first two, who will see it at some point soon. Willis adds another star to the list of players in the system in 2002. Cedeno, Wuertz & Sisco add three more solid regulars. Guzman and Ryu make up part of the current core of players. The system that Hendry built as farm director and took over as GM in 2002 was almost ridiculously deep.

 

If the Cubs get nearly that much service out of the current group of players I'll be really surprised. The overall quality of the system is part of what helped raise the reputation of guys like Hill and Choi to the point where they had enough value to get ARam and Lee. I don't see players in the system currently who have enough value to land marquee guys like that except for Pie and, maybe, a couple of the pitchers. And Pie is not really any more highly regarded now than Choi was back at that time. Another point is that we were able to trade some of these guys without feeling it too badly because there were so many good prospects. If we traded away Pie right now, who would be left on the position side with star potential unless Dopirak or Harvey can turn things around in a hurry? And while we have some good pitchers in the system right now, they certainly don't compare to the Prior/Cruz/Z troika.

 

There are certainly still players there who are going to provide value to the team. But I don't think there's any question that the system is shallower than when Hendry moved up to GM and has a lot less star potential.

 

Good points all, Tim. There were a lot of red flags among baseball people about Hill and Choi before any injuries came along. Scott Boras did a good job of ballyhooing Hill. Once he got into pro ball, a lot of flaws in his game were exposed. Scouts saw a lot of flaws in Choi's game even before 2003, with one telling us he'd be in the minor leagues that season _ and this was in March of 2003.

 

The Cubs have gotten pretty good feelers already on guys like Eric Patterson, Marshall, Gallagher and Hill. The jury is still out on guys like Harvey, Dopirak, Grant Johnson, Veal and Pawelek.

 

The Cubs development staff did a pretty good job in turning Wuertz's career around. (He's another good guy, and I hope his bad spring was just a fluke.)

 

It's just so hard to tell. That's why I don't get too caught up in saying how great or lousy things look at the moment.

regarding Choi & Hill - I'm talking about the injuries they had while in AAA before ever really hitting the majors. Looking back at Choi, in particular, before he hurt his hand in his first pass at AAA in 2001 gives me a moment of wonder of what might have been. He essentially missed a year of development with that injury and the Cubs had to go get McGriff to end the season. Choi spent the next year recovering his stroke at Iowa while Crime Dog patrolled Wrigley. No hand injury and I think HSC's major league career could have looked much different.

 

As I said above, I really don't have any major issues with how the players from the farm (as a whole) have been used. I just wish the Cubs had been more aggressive in recent years overseas since they've lost so many draft picks. It is the feed into the system over recent years that I complain about...not the output from it.

[Bruce Miles]

Right, those are returns on the farm system from 2002. My point is that since the farm system is now thinner, making those types of moves in the future is going to be more difficult. I have no objections to how the system has been used (none major, anyway). It is in the replenishment of the system that I have strong objections.

 

It's just like the logging companies who plant 2 trees for every 1 they cut down. It seems as though the Cubs have been doing the opposite.

 

Novoa, Moore and Flowers for Farnsworth.

 

Blackford and Burrows for Hollandsworth.

 

Two guys for Welly.

 

Whomever for Remlinger. Does it matter?

 

Yeah, I know about Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto for Pierre, but the Cubs have added to the system as they've gone. Some of the moves may turn out to be nothing for nothing, but Murton doesn't look to be a bad catch at this point. He may end up being the best guy that changed hands during that four-team deal.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Novoa, Moore and Flowers for Farnsworth.

 

Blackford and Burrows for Hollandsworth.

 

Two guys for Welly.

 

Whomever for Remlinger. Does it matter?

 

Yeah, I know about Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto for Pierre, but the Cubs have added to the system as they've gone. Some of the moves may turn out to be nothing for nothing, but Murton doesn't look to be a bad catch at this point. He may end up being the best guy that changed hands during that four-team deal.

 

I understand the quantity is there, I was more referring to the quality of '02 that was mentioned. Until those mentioned above actually project to be star players, color me unimpressed.

[Andy]

Right, those are returns on the farm system from 2002. My point is that since the farm system is now thinner, making those types of moves in the future is going to be more difficult. I have no objections to how the system has been used (none major, anyway). It is in the replenishment of the system that I have strong objections.

 

It's just like the logging companies who plant 2 trees for every 1 they cut down. It seems as though the Cubs have been doing the opposite.

 

Novoa, Moore and Flowers for Farnsworth.

 

Blackford and Burrows for Hollandsworth.

 

Two guys for Welly.

 

Whomever for Remlinger. Does it matter?

 

Yeah, I know about Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto for Pierre, but the Cubs have added to the system as they've gone. Some of the moves may turn out to be nothing for nothing, but Murton doesn't look to be a bad catch at this point. He may end up being the best guy that changed hands during that four-team deal.

I'd say he already is. :D Barring catastrophic occurrences of course *knock on wood*

[swordsman]

Right, those are returns on the farm system from 2002. My point is that since the farm system is now thinner, making those types of moves in the future is going to be more difficult. I have no objections to how the system has been used (none major, anyway). It is in the replenishment of the system that I have strong objections.

 

It's just like the logging companies who plant 2 trees for every 1 they cut down. It seems as though the Cubs have been doing the opposite.

 

Novoa, Moore and Flowers for Farnsworth.

 

Blackford and Burrows for Hollandsworth.

 

Two guys for Welly.

 

Whomever for Remlinger. Does it matter?

 

Yeah, I know about Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto for Pierre, but the Cubs have added to the system as they've gone. Some of the moves may turn out to be nothing for nothing, but Murton doesn't look to be a bad catch at this point. He may end up being the best guy that changed hands during that four-team deal.

I'd say he already is. :D Barring catastrophic occurrences of course *knock on wood*

 

Anybody touches Wood with anything (epecially knocking on him) and they'll have a whole bunch of Cubs fans to answer to. Everyone keep your hands off Wood!!!

[SouthSideRyan]

I can't believe people aren't spending this entire thread worrying about this meaning a Dusty extension. I can live with another few years of Hendry, I can not tolerate another few years of Baker.

[Guest]

I can't believe people aren't spending this entire thread worrying about this meaning a Dusty extension. I can live with another few years of Hendry, I can not tolerate another few years of Baker.

We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it.

[oldcubsfan]

I can't believe people aren't spending this entire thread worrying about this meaning a Dusty extension. I can live with another few years of Hendry, I can not tolerate another few years of Baker.

 

Well, you are going to be very unhappy then. IF

Dusty wants to stay, he will. It really will be up to him.

[goonys evil twin]

I can't believe people aren't spending this entire thread worrying about this meaning a Dusty extension. I can live with another few years of Hendry, I can not tolerate another few years of Baker.

 

Well, you are going to be very unhappy then. IF

Dusty wants to stay, he will. It really will be up to him.

 

That might be true, but it's really a dumb move by the organization if it is. Nobody should be allowed to stay just because they want to. Brett Favre gets that treatment in GB because he was a savior. Dusty has done nothing to earn such treatment in Chicago.