The Genius of Shapiro

[jjgman21]

I know alot of the Hendry critics think that Cleveland's GM is outstanding. I found yesterday's transactions interesting

 

Apr 1 Brandon Phillips designated for assignment

 

Apr 1 Danny Graves purchased from minors

 

Apr 1 Jason Davis sent to minors

 

Apr 1 Kazuhito Tadano designated for assignment

 

Apr 1 Todd Hollandsworth purchased from minors

 

Apr 1 Jason Dubois sent to minors

 

while I don't know what the Indian's bench situation is, I know many people around here would be going ballistic over this move.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Well I don't get the point of the post, but I do agree that Shapiro is one of the top 5 GMs in the game already. I love his plan, I love the moves he makes - especially on the offensive side of the ball. I don't like some of the pitching moves, but they have alot of guys in the minors that should be ready this year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I know alot of the Hendry critics think that Cleveland's GM is outstanding. I found yesterday's transactions interesting

 

Apr 1 Brandon Phillips designated for assignment

 

Apr 1 Danny Graves purchased from minors

 

Apr 1 Jason Davis sent to minors

 

Apr 1 Kazuhito Tadano designated for assignment

 

Apr 1 Todd Hollandsworth purchased from minors

 

Apr 1 Jason Dubois sent to minors

 

while I don't know what the Indian's bench situation is, I know many people around here would be going ballistic over this move.

 

A bench role is much different than a starting role. Also consider that the Tribe are an AL team that doesn't have to use it's bench as much, and according to some friends I talked to when I was up there this week, Gutierrez and Snyder are close to being ready in the corner OF where they have Michaels and Blake now. In addition, going by ESPN it looks like they are only carrying one backup outfielder, so the ability to play all 3 OF positions(even though Michaels can play CF as well) is more valuable in this instance. Cleveland also has the benefit of seeing all of last year's performance from Dubois. Sorry for the hodgepodge of thoughts.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why would ppl here go ballistic? The prospect love here is a little much, but understandable. Dubois is a AAAA player. Holly is pretty solid off the bench.

 

Didn't they just extend Sizemore? In light of that, any perceived mistake with Dubois is inconsequential.

[Monco]

Hollandsworth played well in 04.His problem was last year when he was asked to start.He may be the type of player who does well in spot duty but when hes out there everyday his weaknesses are exposed.

[nilodnayr]

Also, Blake and Michaels are right handed, so you would want a left handed bat to replace them, that was probably a big reason why they took Holla over Dubois. And Dubois has options. If you are trying to knock Shapiro down a peg, remember we are talking about Dubois/Holla for 4th outfielder for 2006 as opposed to starting left fielder for 2005. If anything the fact that a decision needs to be made between two players who were battling for a starting job in 2005 as to who will be the 4th outfielder in 2006, shows how smart Shapiro is.

[ltb]

Dubois is a AAAA player. Holly is pretty solid off the bench.

 

ok - so dubois is an AAAA player, but hollandsworth is good off the bench with a 2005 line of 254/301/388 for the cubs and 171/275/257 for the braves?

 

yeah, that sounds REALLY solid, brah.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Dubois is a AAAA player. Holly is pretty solid off the bench.

 

ok - so dubois is an AAAA player, but hollandsworth is good off the bench with a 2005 line of 254/301/388 for the cubs and 171/275/257 for the braves?

 

yeah, that sounds REALLY solid, brah.

 

how is saying someone isn't good off the bench and then using Holly's 2005 numbers (platoon) a valid statement? apples and oranges, brah.

 

oh, and holly was with Atlanta for about a month. huge sample size.

[BigbadB]

Holly was very solid off the bench for the Cubs in 2004. I'd much rather have a veteran bat as a part time, rare start, PH off the bench than a kid who has seen 1/3 of a season worth of major league at bats.

 

If a corner OF in the Cleveland outfield gets hurt, promote Dubois to start in the injured guys place and Hollandsworth continues his role as the guy coming off the bench.

 

I'd rather have Hollandsworth as the 4th outfielder over Mabry.

[Gunned]

Dubois is a AAAA player. Holly is pretty solid off the bench.

 

ok - so dubois is an AAAA player, but hollandsworth is good off the bench with a 2005 line of 254/301/388 for the cubs and 171/275/257 for the braves?

 

yeah, that sounds REALLY solid, brah.

 

Cool, brah.

[BigbadB]

Cool, brah.

 

Boy, did that ever add a lot to the discussion. But, I'm sure everyone appreciates your input.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Cool, brah.

 

Boy, did that ever add a lot to the discussion. But, I'm sure everyone appreciates your input.

 

It was about as insightful as the post he replied to.

[jjgman21]

I'd much rather have a veteran bat as a part time, rare start, PH off the bench than a kid who has seen 1/3 of a season worth of major league at bats.

 

 

like I said in my initial post, I don't know what the bench situation for Cleveland is, nor their organizational situation in terms of outfielders, but I have to wonder, were you saying that before Marquis Grissom retired? what if Holla was back in Cubs camp this year and the choice was between Restovich and Hollandsworth?

 

I know there are differences in leagues and starter v. backup and needs of the team. but looking at the roster a little closer, you guys are also failing to take into account the Indians first base situation. Ben Broussard's complete inability to hit lefties and Eduardo Perez as the righthanded option (who by the way can only play one position). it really seems to me that Cleveland's GM, who I think is outstanding, has filled two roster spots with crappy veterans, when giving DuBois 350-400 ABs at first and outfield seems to be a viable option.

 

I suppose Hollandworth CAN play center. it's not like he has done so in a number of years though. Casey Blake had one nice year but doesn't appear to be anything special (I don't know about the prospects at all), and the Indians have plenty of lefty sticks (Hafner, Sizemore, Martinez, Broussard).

 

sorry, but the more I look at this it seems people will give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt for making the same decisions they would crucify the Cubs for making.

[CubinNY]

I'd much rather have a veteran bat as a part time, rare start, PH off the bench than a kid who has seen 1/3 of a season worth of major league at bats.

 

 

like I said in my initial post, I don't know what the bench situation for Cleveland is, nor their organizational situation in terms of outfielders, but I have to wonder, were you saying that before Marquis Grissom retired? what if Holla was back in Cubs camp this year and the choice was between Restovich and Hollandsworth?

 

I know there are differences in leagues and starter v. backup and needs of the team. but looking at the roster a little closer, you guys are also failing to take into account the Indians first base situation. Ben Broussard's complete inability to hit lefties and Eduardo Perez as the righthanded option (who by the way can only play one position). it really seems to me that Cleveland's GM, who I think is outstanding, has filled two roster spots with crappy veterans, when giving DuBois 350-400 ABs at first and outfield seems to be a viable option.

 

I suppose Hollandworth CAN play center. it's not like he has done so in a number of years though. Casey Blake had one nice year but doesn't appear to be anything special (I don't know about the prospects at all), and the Indians have plenty of lefty sticks (Hafner, Sizemore, Martinez, Broussard).

 

sorry, but the more I look at this it seems people will give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt for making the same decisions they would crucify the Cubs for making.

 

But as you stated you don't know what the situation is in Cleveland. Neither do I. So I won't criticize the move.

[BigbadB]

sorry, but the more I look at this it seems people will give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt for making the same decisions they would crucify the Cubs for making.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges, IMO. Yes, we crucified the Cubs, but because Hollandsworth was the STARTER, not the bench help.

 

Hollandsworth has basically spent his whole career as bench help.

 

I will agree that you fill bench positions based on need. Which is why I believe Restovich should be on the Cubs bench.

[Outshined_One]

Shapiro did a really smart thing when he traded Crisp away. Coco is not a leadoff hitter, nor is he a center fielder. He got pretty darn good value for the guy, all things considered.

 

Also, I have a huge man crush on Brad Snyder. I think he's going to be a monster.

[jjgman21]

sorry, but the more I look at this it seems people will give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt for making the same decisions they would crucify the Cubs for making.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges, IMO. Yes, we crucified the Cubs, but because Hollandsworth was the STARTER, not the bench help.

 

Hollandsworth has basically spent his whole career as bench help.

 

I will agree that you fill bench positions based on need. Which is why I believe Restovich should be on the Cubs bench.

 

actually, you're arguing some apples and oranges yourself. I am speaking in terms imagining the reactions of people should one GM be operating in the same context as another. your criticism goes to Baker, not Hendry. Hendry said all along that DuBois would see plenty of PT in leftfield, and was at a minimum viewed by Hendry as a platoon player. it was the decision of the Cubs manager that changed all of that.

 

also, I elaborated on the point about this year's Cleveland bench. Shapiro kept Perez and Hollandsworth, when DuBois alone could fill about 95% of the bench role that those two are capable of.

 

time after time I see bemoaning around here of giving bench roles to veterans instead of young players, and I agree with that notion. IMO, a dumb move by a good GM.

[Outshined_One]

time after time I see bemoaning around here of giving bench roles to veterans instead of young players, and I agree with that notion. IMO, a dumb move by a good GM.

 

I think a large part of that bemoaning centered on the way Dusty handles his bench.

 

Neifi Perez is the perfect example. As a guy who can come off the bench and be a defensive replacement, he actually is pretty good. He plays good defense and is a switch hitter, so he can pinch hit when called upon. He's a very good bench guy.

 

Yet, thanks to Dusty, Neifi is not limited to being a bench guy. We know that if Cedeno hits a bad slump, he might never be the starting SS again. Heck, the way Dusty plays his rookies, if Cedeno gets bumped from his starting role, he might see incredibly limited action from there on out. He wouldn't get the regular playing time and ABs he'd need to develop.

 

I think that was part of the reason why everyone is so solidly against certain bench moves this organization makes.

 

I don't think Cleveland has to worry about Todd Hollandsworth taking over a starting position in the OF.

[JC]

Anytime threads are started for the singular reason of dumping on any generalized group of members to this site is self-indulgent and absolutely worthless.

[bring stone back]

I know alot of the Hendry critics think that Cleveland's GM is outstanding. I found yesterday's transactions interesting

 

Apr 1 Brandon Phillips designated for assignment

 

Apr 1 Danny Graves purchased from minors

 

Apr 1 Jason Davis sent to minors

 

Apr 1 Kazuhito Tadano designated for assignment

 

Apr 1 Todd Hollandsworth purchased from minors

 

Apr 1 Jason Dubois sent to minors

 

while I don't know what the Indian's bench situation is, I know many people around here would be going ballistic over this move.

 

Just look at how he got long-term deals for Martinez, Peralta and Sizemore on the cheap and that's a guy who knows what he's doing.

 

Crisp was a big loss, but if Marte is half as good as his pub...the Indians will be a good team for a LONG time.

[Jehrico]

Holla historically is a pretty good bat off of the bench. We would be furoious here if Hendry made the same move because we know that Baker would be too tempted to start him over Murton after his first 0 for 8 streak. The Indians are going to use him properly, I think. Baker would not. If Baker could be trusted to use him correctly, I'd like to have him on the bench.

[jjgman21]

Anytime threads are started for the singular reason of dumping on any generalized group of members to this site is self-indulgent and absolutely worthless.

 

well then it's a good thing I had the other purposes of pointing out a transaction, critiquing that transaction and pointing out that GMs who most everybody thinks are very good also make questionable decisions.

 

posts put up for the singular reason of dumping on the form of the post by innaccurately supposing facts and intent are so self sacrificing and such a valuable contribution. thanks for taking the time jc. we all appreciate the insight. how do you manage to impart such topical wisdom?

[UK1679666180]

If we were to be furious over Cleveland having Hollandsworth over Dubois, we'd be Indians fans...

[nilodnayr]

Eduardo Perez's lefty splits

 

2002: 997 OPS in 70 ABs

2003: 1126 OPS in 102 ABs

2004: 623 in 27 ABs

2005: 897 in 135 ABs

[nilodnayr]

If we were to be furious over Cleveland having Hollandsworth over Dubois, we'd be Indians fans...

 

I'd have to say for me it goes

 

1. Cubs

2. Cubs

3. Cubs

4 (a). Indians

4 (b). A's

 

I suspect its somewhat similar for a lot of people on here.