Grace: Sammy PROBABLY used roids

[hardcorecubfan]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

I dunno man, Sammy with the Rangers looked like around 170. He was pretty scrawny.

 

Sammy though was barely out of his teens. David robinson went to Naval Academy at 6'1" left 7 ft. Flo Jo was accused but it her muscle growth was well documented over a period of time, which anatomy/Physiologist all conquered that it was more than feasible to gain that muscle. Suspicion occurs when it is over 15 pounds of muscle in less than 6 months. (comes from Lance Johnson "Mr. Texas" http://www.lancemjohnson.com/ He teaches across the hall from me)

[frostwyrm]

Sammy juiced. I find it difficult to believe otherwise.

[Chocolate Milk]

Sammy juiced. I find it difficult to believe otherwise.

 

I agree.

[soccer10k]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

Correct. Grace is flat out wrong. A guy most certainly can gain 30-40 pounds of bulk if he works at it.

 

I remember a Sammy Sosa quote from right before either the 2003 or 2004 season (I think) when he said something about he started his offseason workouts earlier that year to get ready for the season. He started in December rather than January. Which means he admitted to not working too hard in the previous offseasons includin when he ballooned up.

 

I loved Sammy Sosa. But he used steroids. Plain and simple. If I'm going to accuse Barry Bonds, which I have numerous times, of using steroids because he went from a 5 tool threat to a power hitter, then I have to accuse Sosa under the same circumstances. Sosa was never as good as Bonds was early in his career but he was a five tool player nonetheless. He did it and Cubs fans need to come to terms with that. I have.

 

Grace is right.

[soccer10k]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

I dunno man, Sammy with the Rangers looked like around 170. He was pretty scrawny.

 

Sammy though was barely out of his teens. David robinson went to Naval Academy at 6'1" left 7 ft. Flo Jo was accused but it her muscle growth was well documented over a period of time, which anatomy/Physiologist all conquered that it was more than feasible to gain that muscle. Suspicion occurs when it is over 15 pounds of muscle in less than 6 months. (comes from Lance Johnson "Mr. Texas" http://www.lancemjohnson.com/ He teaches across the hall from me)

 

Steroids don't help somebody grow 11 inches taller so using David Robinson is a horrible example. It is common for 18-20 year old boys to have growth spurts, obviously not all of them are 11 inches, but growth spurts do happen naturally. They put on weight because that's what you do when you grow. It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

[CubinNY]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

[SouthSideRyan]

1. The Sun-Times is not the journalistic standard to try and hold anything to.

 

2. I think it speaks volumes that Grace shared a locker room with Sosa for 9 years, hates him, and is a media whore, and the best he can offer is LOOK AT HIS BODY!!! AND HIS HOME RUNS!!!

 

Thanks for the contribution Mark, we'll see you again next time you have an uninformed opinion to get yourself over.

[SouthSideRyan]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Me in the year 2016.

[soccer10k]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Sammy Sosa and before anyone corrects me, he was 29. Either way, it's still not natural.

[soccer10k]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Barry Bonds as well.

[hardcorecubfan]

Sammy juiced. I find it difficult to believe otherwise.

 

I agree.

 

me too, just had to take a shot at defending him

[CubinNY]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Sammy Sosa and before anyone corrects me, he was 29. Either way, it's still not natural.

 

When did you put him on the scale?

[hardcorecubfan]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Sammy Sosa and before anyone corrects me, he was 29. Either way, it's still not natural.

 

When did you put him on the scale?

 

A. They are wrestling coaches and can judge these thing pretty well

B. They work for the carnival during the summer gueesing weights

[soccer10k]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Sammy Sosa and before anyone corrects me, he was 29. Either way, it's still not natural.

 

When did you put him on the scale?

 

A. They are wrestling coaches and can judge these thing pretty well

B. They work for the carnival during the summer gueesing weights

 

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

[soccer10k]

Even in the mid 90's Sosa was 185 pounds. Then in the past couple years he has been considered 220 to 230 pounds which means a gain of 35-45 pounds. Maybe I overdid it with a 50 pound estimate, but I wasn't off my much.

[harrdb00]

1. The Sun-Times is not the journalistic standard to try and hold anything to.

 

2. I think it speaks volumes that Grace shared a locker room with Sosa for 9 years, hates him, and is a media whore, and the best he can offer is LOOK AT HIS BODY!!! AND HIS HOME RUNS!!!

 

Thanks for the contribution Mark, we'll see you again next time you have an uninformed opinion to get yourself over.

 

Why does everyone hate Grace? I loved the guy. He was as clutch as can be and loved playing in Chicago. So, he was bitter that he left, can you blame him? I would be concerned if he didn't mind being replaced by Choi/Karros.

 

Grace was a gamer, and I love him for that.

 

Let's not forget that Grace isn't the only one who dislikes Sammy. I actually can't think of any Cubs that really loved Sammy. We know Ryno doesn't care for him, and Dawson didn't care for him much either. They didn't dislike him for his personality, but his lack of respect for the game. I agree with them.

[UBlink]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

[soccer10k]

1. The Sun-Times is not the journalistic standard to try and hold anything to.

 

2. I think it speaks volumes that Grace shared a locker room with Sosa for 9 years, hates him, and is a media whore, and the best he can offer is LOOK AT HIS BODY!!! AND HIS HOME RUNS!!!

 

Thanks for the contribution Mark, we'll see you again next time you have an uninformed opinion to get yourself over.

 

Why does everyone hate Grace? I loved the guy. He was as clutch as can be and loved playing in Chicago. So, he was bitter that he left, can you blame him? I would be concerned if he didn't mind being replaced by Choi/Karros.

 

Grace was a gamer, and I love him for that.

 

Let's not forget that Grace isn't the only one who dislikes Sammy. I actually can't think of any Cubs that really loved Sammy. We know Ryno doesn't care for him, and Dawson didn't care for him much either. They didn't dislike him for his personality, but his lack of respect for the game. I agree with them.

 

Well said.

[stitchface]

He looked like a pro wrestler on steroids say around 2001 or so.

 

Sammy's HR totals from 1993-2003

93  33
94  25
95  36
96  40
97  36
98  66 (McGuire chase, Maris and Mantle had a similar chase in 61 with each having career years in HRs)
99  63
00  50
01  64
02  49
03  40

 

To me that looks like a typical career arc for a power hitter. 2001 actually markes the down slope of that arc.

 

Didn't he get injured in 1996 and 1997 as well? I believe he was on or close to 50 pace both those years. Sammy's biggest jump was learning the strike zone in my opinion. I still believe there is a pretty good chance he took something but lets not pretend he went from Juan Pierre to 66 homeruns in 1998. Also interesting is that he started off very slowly in 1998 in home runs but was hitting .300+. To me that indicates the improved command of the zone much more than steroids.

[SouthSideRyan]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

BUT HIS HR TOTALS!!!

 

And you've got it all wrong stitchface, he obviously started juicing in June of '98...or something.

[soccer10k]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium. Both of their bodies looked completely different in 2001-2002 than how they looked in the early 90's. Bonds went from a superstar to the best player ever in the game and Sosa went from an all star to a superstar. Both used to be 5 tool players and suddenly became home run hitters (although Bonds did keep his average up). In his last couple years Sosa was just a 1 tool player.

 

Of course I don't have evidence that Sosa took steroids. My point is that everybody condemns Barry Bonds just cause he is an ass and nobody likes him but nobody says anything about Sammy Sosa just cause he's a good guy and people feel bad about his departure from Chicago.

 

Please, don't hold a double standard. Use your brains to think and realize what actually happened.

 

I'm done with this discussion.

[SouthSideRyan]

Re: His HR totals, he was injured in '96, and I believe I had him at about 50 HRs that year with injury time back. Additionally '95 was the 144 game season, and '94 was obviously shortened by the strike.

 

I had the numbers extrapolated in a previous post that showed him to be on a pretty steady increase in HR power before he had the down year in '97.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

[rawaction]

Sosa was getting bigger every season. He was a lot bigger in 1994 than he was in 1990. Granted, he took a huge jump around 96-97, but when he started to become a legit baseball player was 1994. He was already gaining muscle every year.

[KatJ]

Sammy juiced. I find it difficult to believe otherwise.

 

I agree.

 

I'm a big fan of Grace as a baseball player, but the more he talks, the less I like him as a person. It seems hypocritical to me that while Grace says "to each his own" about roid use, he wouldn't vote for Sammy as HOF. You can't ignore the numbers he's put up.

 

On the other hand, how many times did Grace keep a game going in the 9th, only to see Sammy whiff and strand everybody? From Grace's dog's eye view in the 90s, I guess Sammy wouldn't look like much of a HOF candidate.