Sportingnews Juan Pierre article

[Schwarber Fan]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=69830

[Neuby]

wow he's third in the league in hits the last few year behind Pujols and Ichiro. Thats some nice company.

[Mizzou]

I didn't receive my Sporting News today. That pisses me off.

[OleMissCub]

that's an outstanding article. I'm excited having him at the top of our order.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's really fantastic that Pierre works so hard. I just wish that someone would show him that he'd be a much better player if he sacrificed some contact to hit some more gappers. Strikeouts are not the ultimate evil. Still, good article about Pierre's character.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

that's an outstanding article. I'm excited having him at the top of our order.

 

2nd that!

[Omar]

What annoys me is that people attack him because of his lack of power, or lack of really good contact. Greg Maddux does not have much velocity, but he does what he can... which is a lot. Pierre also does not have much power, but he still finds ways to be successful other than power. He focuses on what he has instead of dwelling on what he doesnt... and those kinds of players make you realize that you dont need to strike out every other hitter to be a good pitcher... You dont need to hit a home run every other at-bat...

[DivineBovine]

I love Pierre. He should keep doing what he's doing. I don't think there's any reason to believe he can't return to form. .350 obp with a ton of speed to wreak havoc on the bases. Let's see what the Cubs do with him at the top of the lineup, rather than the black holes we've had in the past few years.

 

 

And I LOVE the fact he doesn't K. Does anyone remember what kind of pressure he put on the opposing pitchers and defenses in the 2003 post season? I don't care what anyone says. If you keep slapping foul ball after foul ball on a pitcher, it wears on them. If you get on base and threaten to steal every time, it wears on them. I don't care if there might not be stats for what he brings, but I've all seen it first hand. Don't change a thing Juan.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What annoys me is that people attack him because of his lack of power, or lack of really good contact. Greg Maddux does not have much velocity, but he does what he can... which is a lot. Pierre also does not have much power, but he still finds ways to be successful other than power. He focuses on what he has instead of dwelling on what he doesnt... and those kinds of players make you realize that you dont need to strike out every other hitter to be a good pitcher... You dont need to hit a home run every other at-bat...

 

There's a big difference there. Maddux in his prime struck out a decent amount of hitters, and his hallmark was exceptional control. Pierre essentially ignores one of the most important parts of hitting, hitting for extra bases, in lieu of not striking out, which isn't nearly as important. When Pierre sacrifices power for contact, it lessens his offensive value.

[stitchface]

frankly, I don't care too much about his power. the cubs need pierre on base - and since he doesn't draw walks, he needs to make contact to be on-base.

[OleMissCub]

 

There's a big difference there. Maddux in his prime struck out a decent amount of hitters, and his hallmark was exceptional control. Pierre essentially ignores one of the most important parts of hitting, hitting for extra bases, in lieu of not striking out, which isn't nearly as important. When Pierre sacrifices power for contact, it lessens his offensive value.

 

Offensive value and power are not mutually exclusive. His offensive value lies in his ability in getting basehits, not striking out, stealing bases and scoring runs

[DivineBovine]

What annoys me is that people attack him because of his lack of power, or lack of really good contact. Greg Maddux does not have much velocity, but he does what he can... which is a lot. Pierre also does not have much power, but he still finds ways to be successful other than power. He focuses on what he has instead of dwelling on what he doesnt... and those kinds of players make you realize that you dont need to strike out every other hitter to be a good pitcher... You dont need to hit a home run every other at-bat...

 

There's a big difference there. Maddux in his prime struck out a decent amount of hitters, and his hallmark was exceptional control. Pierre essentially ignores one of the most important parts of hitting, hitting for extra bases, in lieu of not striking out, which isn't nearly as important. When Pierre sacrifices power for contact, it lessens his offensive value.

 

 

Asking Pierre to change who he is and try to hit more gappers is like asking CPatt not to K. You can't change who you are.

 

You can site all the stats you want, Tiger. I'm with all those who happen to believe that Pierre is valuable because he doesn't K and runs like hell. We've all seen it in 2003. And don't just ask the Cubs. You can ask the Yankees about it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

There's a big difference there. Maddux in his prime struck out a decent amount of hitters, and his hallmark was exceptional control. Pierre essentially ignores one of the most important parts of hitting, hitting for extra bases, in lieu of not striking out, which isn't nearly as important. When Pierre sacrifices power for contact, it lessens his offensive value.

 

Offensive value and power are not mutually exclusive. His offensive value lies in his ability in getting basehits, not striking out, stealing bases and scoring runs

 

Yes, but in his quest to not strike out, he loses power. The power is much more valuable than the ability to not strike out. By taking a "contact at all costs" approach, he limits the player he could be.

[rocket]

If Pierre reverts back to his .360 OBP form, then I don't care how he does it.

[Jon]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

[Mizzou]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

[Jon]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

A lot of people see 75% as the break-even line, meaning 3 stolen bases balances out 1 caught stealing. 77% may make it worth it, but it's not exactly good.

 

In 2003, he was stealing bases at a 76% rate.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Jon

[stitchface]

 

There's a big difference there. Maddux in his prime struck out a decent amount of hitters, and his hallmark was exceptional control. Pierre essentially ignores one of the most important parts of hitting, hitting for extra bases, in lieu of not striking out, which isn't nearly as important. When Pierre sacrifices power for contact, it lessens his offensive value.

 

Offensive value and power are not mutually exclusive. His offensive value lies in his ability in getting basehits, not striking out, stealing bases and scoring runs

 

Yes, but in his quest to not strike out, he loses power. The power is much more valuable than the ability to not strike out. By taking a "contact at all costs" approach, he limits the player he could be.

 

he loses power, which he probably wouldn't have much anyway, and gains obp. in this case, I think the increase in OBP is worth the loss of power. its not like he'd be adam dunn if he struck out more.

[Mizzou]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

A lot of people see 75% as the break-even line, meaning 3 stolen bases balances out 1 caught stealing. 77% may make it worth it, but it's not exactly good.

What would you consider good?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

There's a big difference there. Maddux in his prime struck out a decent amount of hitters, and his hallmark was exceptional control. Pierre essentially ignores one of the most important parts of hitting, hitting for extra bases, in lieu of not striking out, which isn't nearly as important. When Pierre sacrifices power for contact, it lessens his offensive value.

 

Offensive value and power are not mutually exclusive. His offensive value lies in his ability in getting basehits, not striking out, stealing bases and scoring runs

 

Yes, but in his quest to not strike out, he loses power. The power is much more valuable than the ability to not strike out. By taking a "contact at all costs" approach, he limits the player he could be.

 

he loses power, which he probably wouldn't have much anyway, and gains obp. in this case, I think the increase in OBP is worth the loss of power. its not like he'd be adam dunn if he struck out more.

 

I can't see his OBP dropping much if at all by just trying to make more solid contact all the time. First of all, I'm not talking about just hacking away with two strikes, I'm talking about getting his pitch and driving it, not just trying to put the ball in play and run. Furthermore, with the amount of weak contact he makes in all counts because of his approach, He's not losing a bunch of singles to gain the doubles and triples. Of course he's not going to become Adam Dunn, but he'd be better, and that's better for us.

[Jon]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

A lot of people see 75% as the break-even line, meaning 3 stolen bases balances out 1 caught stealing. 77% may make it worth it, but it's not exactly good.

What would you consider good?

Pods' 70 stolen bases to just 13 caught stealing was pretty good in 2004. His 71% last year, not so much (especially considering how much they relied upon the HR).

 

Basically, Pierre's stolen base attempts haven't really had any effect statistically. I do think that it causes pitchers to alter their timing a little bit, but I don't think it has any significant effect. If this team is going to hit around 200 HRs again, I don't want him getting caught stealing that often. This isn't a small ball team, so I'd value OBP and XBHs a lot more than OBP and stolen base totals.

[David]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

A lot of people see 75% as the break-even line, meaning 3 stolen bases balances out 1 caught stealing. 77% may make it worth it, but it's not exactly good.

What would you consider good?

 

Not wasting precious offensive currency by giving away outs?

[Rob]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

A lot of people see 75% as the break-even line, meaning 3 stolen bases balances out 1 caught stealing. 77% may make it worth it, but it's not exactly good.

 

In 2003, he was stealing bases at a 76% rate.

 

The break-even line in the NL last year was on average 69.9%

 

I don't feel like breaking down Pierre's lines last year, but odds are if he's cleared 75%, he's achieving a net positive for the team.

 

Although how much of a positive that is can be up for debate.

[A New Era]

His running isn't particularly effective, though. He was 77% on the bases last season and in 2004, his best year as a Marlin, a dismal 65%. It's not like his stolen base attempts are really making up for the lack of power numbers.

 

He was not good at all at the plate last year and that worries me. If he's healthy and puts up a .374 OBP again, great, but I'm not getting too excited about him yet.

Isn't anyone above 75% considered to be an effective base stealer?

A lot of people see 75% as the break-even line, meaning 3 stolen bases balances out 1 caught stealing. 77% may make it worth it, but it's not exactly good.

What would you consider good?

 

Not wasting precious offensive currency by giving away outs?

 

Can't have it both ways. Either he's gonna shoot for around 55 SB this year, and have a success rate of 75% (or hopefully better). . Or he's not gonna steal at all.

 

I'd rather him just be the player he is. And keep causing havok on the bases. Be yourself Pierre!!

[David]

Can't have it both ways. Either he's gonna shoot for around 55 SB this year, and have a success rate of 75% (or hopefully better). . Or he's not gonna steal at all.

 

I think you've made my point. I'd rather he not steal much. Even if he was at 75%, he'd barely be over the breakeven point and it wouldn't be very productive.