Dusty Baker: Could he possibly be this dumb?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why single Dusty out?

 

Where is Dusty being singled out? He's one of many, because of that should we never mention his name in the discussion?

 

What thread are we in again?

[Bgbird68]

I'd like to apologize for even bringing this up.

 

Who cares who cheats.

 

Who cares if baseball is tainted because of this.

 

I guess I should just focus on the WBC and spring training.

 

My bad.

[goonys evil twin]

Why single Dusty out?

 

Where is Dusty being singled out? He's one of many, because of that should we never mention his name in the discussion?

 

What thread are we in again?

 

So now somebody can't start a thread responding to an absurd quote from Dusty?

 

Singled out would be saying that Dusty should be banned from baseball, it's all Dusty's fault, Dusty is the problem. Talking about his part of the problem is not singling him out. Sticking your head in the sand to ignore the problem is exactly what helped make the problem what it is today.

 

People are saying "everybody is guilty therefore nobody is guilty." That's absurd.

[USSoccer]

I'd like to apologize for even bringing this up.

 

Who cares who cheats.

 

Who cares if baseball is tainted because of this.

 

I guess I should just focus on the WBC and spring training.

 

My bad.

 

I don't think anyone is saying they don't care who cheats, or that the don't care the game is tainted. I certainly do. It pisses me off that at this point MLB doesn't step in and do something with regards to Bonds, before he turns the HR record into a farce.

 

I think what's being said in here is that people are ticked that this is the focus right now, and not the game itself. It's a fine point, but I can see it. No one should be bigger than the game.

 

Also, in regards to Baker, I just don't see how him asking Barry in 2001 changes a thing. Barry would probably have said no, or told him to go scratch. Then what's he supposed to do? Go to Sabean, who already hated him, or McGowan, who would probably have sided with the ticket draw over the manager trying to "do the right thing"? Either way, nothing Baker could have said results in Bonds stopping. There's also the possibility Baker did say something, but won't reveal it because he has a desire to maintain his "players guy" rep

 

Regardless, Baker saying something to Bonds changes nothing in this scenario. Nothing. Bonds wasn't going to stop, the Giants weren't going to discipline him or risk ticking an already touchy star off. Baker protected himself. It's unfortunate, because it really isn't the "right" thing to do, but I cannot sit here in my chair and criticise Baker.

[abuck1220]

I'm one of the guys that spoke out most about it.

 

just like you're not used to spending the postseason at home. if you say it enough, it'll catch on.

[Mizzou]

People are saying "everybody is guilty therefore nobody is guilty." That's absurd.

 

Who said that?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why single Dusty out?

 

Where is Dusty being singled out? He's one of many, because of that should we never mention his name in the discussion?

 

What thread are we in again?

 

So now somebody can't start a thread responding to an absurd quote from Dusty?

 

Singled out would be saying that Dusty should be banned from baseball, it's all Dusty's fault, Dusty is the problem. Talking about his part of the problem is not singling him out. Sticking your head in the sand to ignore the problem is exactly what helped make the problem what it is today.

 

People are saying "everybody is guilty therefore nobody is guilty." That's absurd.

 

Everybody is guilty so nobody should be punished. That's not being absurd, it's being practical. You want to give Bonds what he deserves? Why? His image is already crap. Injuries will drive him out of the game soon enough without his little pick me ups.

[Wilson A2000]

You are right, even if Dusty approached Bonds or the Giants nothing would have happened. Bonds will have proably punched him and the Giants didn't want bad press. The problem is that Dusty had to know something was going on. He still won't admit that he even had a clue.

[USSoccer]

Let me also say that Baker would be much better served saying something along the lines of "looking back, I should have suspected something" instead of seeming to admit to how terrible it is, and then retreating to the "old news, blah blah blah" stuff. Yesterday he seemed to waffle between being candid and stonewalling. All he had to do was say that he should have known, it's a terrible thing for the game, and he hopes the new policy prevents this in the future.

[cjbucks]

I'm not sure that Baker can be "blamed" for any of this. It's a tough spot for him to be in: He can either turn a blind eye, and get bashed when it comes out, or he can call his megastar LF out, without actual proof, and lose his team, and probably get fired when Bonds goes to Macgowan and complains.

 

Dusty did what 99% of the people in baseball would have done.

 

God, I feel dirty defending Baker...

 

Who was the 1% that didn't look the other way? I can't think of even one person that called anyone out on steroid use until very recently.

 

Supposedly in the '70s, lots of players used amphetamines and no one talked about it. Why would steroids be any different?

 

Didn't Reilly ask Sosa to take a test - I'm sure we were all behind him when that happened.

[J.R.]

I'd like to apologize for even bringing this up.

 

Who cares who cheats.

 

Who cares if baseball is tainted because of this.

 

I guess I should just focus on the WBC and spring training.

 

My bad.

 

Kinsella? Is that you?

[jjgman21]

just answering the question posed in the title to this thread.

 

yes.

 

now what is the topic?

[Bull]

After reading the SI article

"There were words in there that I didn't even understand.''

 

After reading Darren's schoolbooks

 

"There were words in there that I didn't even understand.''

[frostwyrm]

Why single Dusty out?

 

Where is Dusty being singled out? He's one of many, because of that should we never mention his name in the discussion?

 

What thread are we in again?

 

So now somebody can't start a thread responding to an absurd quote from Dusty?

 

Singled out would be saying that Dusty should be banned from baseball, it's all Dusty's fault, Dusty is the problem. Talking about his part of the problem is not singling him out. Sticking your head in the sand to ignore the problem is exactly what helped make the problem what it is today.

 

People are saying "everybody is guilty therefore nobody is guilty." That's absurd.

 

Everybody is guilty so nobody should be punished. That's not being absurd, it's being practical. You want to give Bonds what he deserves? Why? His image is already crap. Injuries will drive him out of the game soon enough without his little pick me ups.

 

He'll still be able to DH for a few more years, but as an outfielder he's almost finished.

[Wilson A2000]

After reading the SI article

"There were words in there that I didn't even understand.''

 

After reading Darren's schoolbooks

 

"There were words in there that I didn't even understand.''

 

Unfortunately Dusty doesn't understand "the truth" and "baseball fundamentals" and "rookie."

[Jehrico]

I'm not sure that Baker can be "blamed" for any of this. It's a tough spot for him to be in: He can either turn a blind eye, and get bashed when it comes out, or he can call his megastar LF out, without actual proof, and lose his team, and probably get fired when Bonds goes to Macgowan and complains.

 

Dusty did what 99% of the people in baseball would have done.

 

God, I feel dirty defending Baker...

 

You have an obligation to confront the player. You don't have to walk up to him out of the blue and say get off this stuff. Dusty cried about his buddy Alzado dying, and then completely ignored Barry doing the same stuff. Dusty had a chance to say something while this was going on, just like every other manager/coach who had a player in this situation.

 

Don't go crying to the media about how you had no idea what steroids even were.

 

Even more than an obligation to confront the player, he has a vested interest, a responsibility even, that comes with his job to know how his players are keeping themselves at a competitive level. Before everyone broke after the 98 season, he should have had a rundown by every player under contract as to how they planned to maintain themselves over the offseason, what they were going to do to improve themselves by next spring, or any other planned activities that could have an impact on themselves as players. If they're using a dietician, a personal physician or trainer, or whatever, he should know what they're doing. If not for anything else, if someone else has something that is really working for them, then that plan could be shared with other players. Apparently, no one was really digging too deep into what Barroids was doing that was making him so successful. If I were Bonds manager, I'd want all of my players to know what he was doing to make him the best in the game, so that they could learn a thing or two and improve themselves. Had Baker been into it at that level, then he should have learned enough to at least know something funny was going on with Barroids.

[MustangMike]

I'm not sure what Baker was supposed to do in that situation.

 

First thing he could have done is say, "Barry, I'm hearing a lot about your Anderson and steroids. Are you using them?"

 

Worrying about whether or not that was the best thing for the team is completely ridiculous when your consider that way of thinking is exactly why so many people ignored it during the 90's. People like to rag on MLB for ignoring the situation, well, Dusty was part of the MLB, he was part of the ignorance. Everybody likes to pin it all on Bud. He's not dictator, Barry is guilty, Dusty is guilty, lots of people are guilty of contributing to the problem and/or doing nothing to solve the problem.

 

I don't see how this is Bakers fault at all. We don't know if he asked him or not, we weren't in the clubhouse. Of course he's going to deny it now, everyone else is, why should he be any different. Why is no one blaming the GM, the Giants, Bud Selig, anyone else? Everyone has turned a blind eye to this. Baker getting signled out is stupid to me.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't see how this is Bakers fault at all. We don't know if he asked him or not, we weren't in the clubhouse. Of course he's going to deny it now, everyone else is, why should he be any different. Why is no one blaming the GM, the Giants, Bud Selig, anyone else? Everyone has turned a blind eye to this. Baker getting signled out is stupid to me.

 

Who said it was Baker's fault? And who is singling Baker out while letting others off the hook. Baker had some really stupid sounding and contradictory quotes in the paper about this issue today. He's part of the story.

[erik316wttn]

Any time the question is "Could Dusty possibly be this dumb?" the answer is always "yes".

[MustangMike]

I don't see how this is Bakers fault at all. We don't know if he asked him or not, we weren't in the clubhouse. Of course he's going to deny it now, everyone else is, why should he be any different. Why is no one blaming the GM, the Giants, Bud Selig, anyone else? Everyone has turned a blind eye to this. Baker getting signled out is stupid to me.

 

Who said it was Baker's fault? And who is singling Baker out while letting others off the hook. Baker had some really stupid sounding and contradictory quotes in the paper about this issue today. He's part of the story.

 

You said he should have said something to Bonds...what I said was how do you know he didn't say anything to him? And honestly, you think Dusty could have made a difference in Bond's action? Let alone the other guys like Palmero and Giambi, who Baker had nothing to do with at all. This was a higher up issue, much higher than even the team level.

[dalgreen]

Baker deserves a lot of criticism for the many ridiculous things he says, but I think some like to jump on him for things that he may or may not have done, as well.

 

Okay, Baker says he didn't know and I don't believe him. Just as I don't believe any manager saying they didn't know. But I also believe that it is possible that Baker said something to Bonds during that year or even over the years. Again, it's possible and Baker just doesn't want to tell reporters, "Yeah, I told him about the dangers of it and how it's ruining the integrity of the game....." So, then you turn it into a he said situation. At times last year I remember some poster(s) calling me a "do-gooder" for calling out MLBPA and players for not calling out teammates who they knew used. Remember Mike Sweeney last year saying he knew a few Royal players in the past who used but then refused to name names? Yeah, I hope Baker said something to him, but I doubt it. But then again he is one of hundreds of guilty people for letting this continue to happen. And, please, just remember there are probably lots and lots of people using and people who used who are only putting up average numbers. So, let's not be selective in who may be using or have used just based on numbers.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't see how this is Bakers fault at all. We don't know if he asked him or not, we weren't in the clubhouse. Of course he's going to deny it now, everyone else is, why should he be any different. Why is no one blaming the GM, the Giants, Bud Selig, anyone else? Everyone has turned a blind eye to this. Baker getting signled out is stupid to me.

 

Who said it was Baker's fault? And who is singling Baker out while letting others off the hook. Baker had some really stupid sounding and contradictory quotes in the paper about this issue today. He's part of the story.

 

You said he should have said something to Bonds...what I said was how do you know he didn't say anything to him? And honestly, you think Dusty could have made a difference in Bond's action? Let alone the other guys like Palmero and Giambi, who Baker had nothing to do with at all. This was a higher up issue, much higher than even the team level.

 

Higher than the team? That's the commish, and the commish has no power without the consent of the owners and players.

[goonys evil twin]

So, let's not be selective in who may be using or have used just based on numbers.

 

What does this mean?

 

I keep hearing the same thing from people, "Don't blame/pick on/single out/criticize/etc Mr. X, there are plenty of other people involved as well." If we can't pick out and discuss specific stories within the story, how in the hell do you get a grasp on the big picture? We keep hearing about how it's a huge mess that the league should have taken care of and the league failed. Well, all of these people being discussed are part of the league. It's like a bad school. You can't blame the student for not caring, you can't blame the teacher for not being able to handle 25 students who don't care, you can't blame the principal for not being able to get his teachers to teach better, you can't blame the superintendent because he has no funds to use, you can't blame the parents because they've tried.

 

Everybody is a part of this mess.

 

Regardless of all this, my main problem is with Dusty's BS about not knowing what steroids were, but still lamenting the loss of his friend Alzado. And then him saying he didn't know what was in the story, but then admitting he read it. Him talking about McCarthyism and the witch hunt, then talking about how he was one of the biggest people talking out on this subject. If you want to stay quiet to protect your team or player, you have the right. But don't come out years later saying you had no idea what was going on but you were also talking out against steroids at the same time even though you aren't even sure what steroids are.

[dalgreen]

So, let's not be selective in who may be using or have used just based on numbers.

 

What does this mean?

 

I keep hearing the same thing from people, "Don't blame/pick on/single out/criticize/etc Mr. X, there are plenty of other people involved as well." If we can't pick out and discuss specific stories within the story, how in the hell do you get a grasp on the big picture? We keep hearing about how it's a huge mess that the league should have taken care of and the league failed. Well, all of these people being discussed are part of the league. It's like a bad school. You can't blame the student for not caring, you can't blame the teacher for not being able to handle 25 students who don't care, you can't blame the principal for not being able to get his teachers to teach better, you can't blame the superintendent because he has no funds to use, you can't blame the parents because they've tried.

 

Everybody is a part of this mess.

 

Regardless of all this, my main problem is with Dusty's BS about not knowing what steroids were, but still lamenting the loss of his friend Alzado. And then him saying he didn't know what was in the story, but then admitting he read it. Him talking about McCarthyism and the witch hunt, then talking about how he was one of the biggest people talking out on this subject. If you want to stay quiet to protect your team or player, you have the right. But don't come out years later saying you had no idea what was going on but you were also talking out against steroids at the same time even though you aren't even sure what steroids are.

 

It means in my estimation, right or wrong it may be, I think it's an epidemic and everyone is guilty until proven innocent, and I don't want to be called a "do-gooder" when I suggest the possibilities of certain Cub pitchers may have juiced or be juicing. Those posters know that I'm addressing them specifically.

 

I don't subscribe to the, "Don't just blame him" game, so I'll take your paragraph as responding to another poster.

 

I didn't take Baker's quote as BS. He said he didn't read the book, but read the part that was in SI, and that excerpt was detailed (at least that's what he said). Regarding his knowledge of steroids, I still have no knowledge of steroids other than you inject it, but I couldn't tell you one specific thing about them. I think he said in essence the same as I said. Was he not telling the truth? Maybe, but maybe he was. In my opinion, he knew about Bonds, but I have no proof he never discussed it with Barry.

[goonys evil twin]

Regarding his knowledge of steroids, I still have no knowledge of steroids other than you inject it, but I couldn't tell you one specific thing about them. I think he said in essence the same as I said. Was he not telling the truth? Maybe, but maybe he was. In my opinion, he knew about Bonds, but I have no proof he never discussed it with Barry.

 

He doesn't know about steroids but he knows they killed his friend Alzado and are really bad and he was one of the most outspoken people against steroids. This doesn't mesh. It's more Baker BS. He's got the integrity of a politician.