Interesting Cub tid-bit from Ken Rosenthal

[seanhopper]

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He mentioned this in his recent article on Theo Epstein's return to the Sox. I'm glad Hendry was able to bring in the leadoff hitter the Cubs desperately needed, but they gave up a lot. According to Rosenthal, they gave up some pieces the Rays would have wanted in a deal for Huff. The Cubs could have used Huff's bat, but I'm skeptical about his defense in the outfield.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

So basically, for the same three pitchers sent to Florida for Juan Pierre, plus the money spent on Jacques Jones, Hendry instead could have Aubrey Huff and have signed free agent Kenny Lofton. Lovely.

 

Huff >> Jones

Lofton = Pierre

Huff + Lofton = $8MM (approximately)

Pierre + Jones = $12MM (approximately)

 

So even better, he'd have had $4MM in extra cash, which could have been used with the $7MM in spare cash he still has unspent, to sign AJ Burnett.

 

Yep, Hendry should be fired.

[RynoRules]

So basically, for the same three pitchers sent to Florida for Juan Pierre, plus the money spent on Jacques Jones, Hendry instead could have Aubrey Huff and have signed free agent Kenny Lofton. Lovely.

 

Huff >> Jones

Lofton = Pierre

Huff + Lofton = $8MM (approximately)

Pierre + Jones = $12MM (approximately)

 

So even better, he'd have had $4MM in extra cash, which could have been used with the $7MM in spare cash he still has unspent, to sign AJ Burnett.

 

Yep, Hendry should be fired.

 

Hard to disagree, except I am not yet convinved that JH should be fired.

[SantoForHOF]

don't you guys ever get tired of complaining? about everything?

[Illini Iceman]

So basically, for the same three pitchers sent to Florida for Juan Pierre, plus the money spent on Jacques Jones, Hendry instead could have Aubrey Huff and have signed free agent Kenny Lofton. Lovely.

 

Huff >> Jones

Lofton = Pierre

Huff + Lofton = $8MM (approximately)

Pierre + Jones = $12MM (approximately)

 

So even better, he'd have had $4MM in extra cash, which could have been used with the $7MM in spare cash he still has unspent, to sign AJ Burnett.

 

Yep, Hendry should be fired.

 

I don't think Rosenthal said they were going to trade those two pitchers straight up for Huff. He said they were two they wanted in a potential deal for Huff, meaning more players were probably including. Knowing the Rays I am sure that it was at least one more top prospect. After all this time trying to deal Huff I am pretty sure they would not be jumping at the offer of Nolasco and Pinto.

[USSoccer]

don't you guys ever get tired of complaining? about everything?

 

It's not complaining; it's criticism. If you're emotionally/financially invested in something, you have every right to be critical.

 

That's not even including that DKWG brings up an excellent point in regards to the use of the assets available this offseason.

[CUBZ99]

So basically, for the same three pitchers sent to Florida for Juan Pierre, plus the money spent on Jacques Jones, Hendry instead could have Aubrey Huff and have signed free agent Kenny Lofton. Lovely.

 

Huff >> Jones

Lofton = Pierre

Huff + Lofton = $8MM (approximately)

Pierre + Jones = $12MM (approximately)

 

So even better, he'd have had $4MM in extra cash, which could have been used with the $7MM in spare cash he still has unspent, to sign AJ Burnett.

 

Yep, Hendry should be fired.

 

An OF of Lofton, Huff and Murton would be difficult to watch defensively. In fact, that OF may have been the worst in the majors defensively.

 

Also, as someone argued, the story said the D-Rays wanted two of the pitchers, not that those two pitchers were the entire deal.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm not so sure that Huff is better than Jones. I like Jones defense a lot more and Huff still has to prove he wasn't a steroid wonder.

[Derwood]

I have a sorta sketchy source in TB who says that either huff or lugo (or both) could have beenhad but hendry wouldn't give up guzman...

[CUBZ99]

I have a sorta sketchy source in TB who says that either huff or lugo (or both) could have beenhad but hendry wouldn't give up guzman...

 

Then Hendry made at least one right move this off season.

 

Huff's salary would have been $2M more than Jones this year for similar to less offensive production and sub par defense. Plus, Jones didn't cost the Cubs any prospects.

 

23 HR .249 .317 .757

22 HR .261 .321 .749

 

Definetely not a $2M difference.

[CuseCubFan69]

I have a sorta sketchy source in TB who says that either huff or lugo (or both) could have beenhad but hendry wouldn't give up guzman...

 

Then Hendry made at least one right move this off season.

 

Huff's salary would have been $2M more than Jones this year for similar to less offensive production and sub par defense. Plus, Jones didn't cost the Cubs any prospects.

 

23 HR .249 .317 .757

22 HR .261 .321 .749

 

Definetely not a $2M difference.

 

Jones did cost a draft pick.

[BigbadB]

I have a sorta sketchy source in TB who says that either huff or lugo (or both) could have beenhad but hendry wouldn't give up guzman...

 

Then Hendry made at least one right move this off season.

 

Huff's salary would have been $2M more than Jones this year for similar to less offensive production and sub par defense. Plus, Jones didn't cost the Cubs any prospects.

 

23 HR .249 .317 .757

22 HR .261 .321 .749

 

Definetely not a $2M difference.

 

You are correct that it is not a 2m difference. However, how well will Jacque Jones play 3b if Ramirez has to miss any significant time?

 

While Tampa may have been asking for Guzman in the early stages of the offseason, I'm sure it would take much less now. Between Huff coming off a bad year, his high dollar contract, 1 year rental and the fact very few teams have 7.5m to drop on an outfielder, I highly doubt that it would have taken much more or even as much as Nolasco and Pinto to get Huff at this later stage of the offseason. Compare it to Sammy last year. When the Cubs planned on moving Sammy, they set their hopes high for a guy like Cliff Floyd from New York in the early stages. Instead of a power hitting, high OPS guy who provides + production, they got a career part time player and a minor leaguer or two while paying all of Sammy's contract.

 

Hey, Tampa may still be holding out for Guzman. If that's the case, fine. They can keep Huff. The Cubs will have the option of signing him as a free agent next year where it definitely won't cost them Guzman.

 

I feel the Cubs really dropped the ball by not resigning Nomar. Fine, he can't field SS well enough to be an everyday starter? Stick him in RF. Use a guy like Jacque Jones as a 4th outfielder or spot starter if Nomar is replacing Aramis for whatever reason. Nomar wouldn't have costed that much, he would have costed us any players and he would likely provide more production than any one of our current starting outfielders.

 

If your offseason worked out so well that Nomar is just a bit part, trade him to someone who has a starting job available. I think the Cubs are going to miss his bat. Yes, I know he missed most of the 2005 season so that there wasn't much bat to miss. However, it's 2006 now. Just because he missed a huge part of 2005 doesn't mean that it's automatic that he'd miss most of 2006. I guess we'll soon find out.

[rawaction]

Jones and Huff had similar numbers, but history shows that Huff should easily outproduce Jones in 2006 and beyond. Jones is a career .782 OPS hitter, with only 1 year over .800, 3 years ago. He will be 31 the first month of the season, and has had 2 straight bad years. Huff is a career .827 OPS hitter (which admittedly is not that much better than Jones has been in his career), but he was coming off of 3 straight years of near or above .900 OPS performances. He will be 29 all season, meaning he's still in his prime years.

 

Plus, I believe Huff has to be given the benefit of the doubt being that he has played his entire career for a lame duck franchise with constant trade rumors swirling around him. There are plenty of examples of players who have performed better with an actual team with a chance of winning around them. Our own Aramis Ramirez comes to mind.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Is there confirmation that the Rays wanted the exact package we sent to Florida for Juan? If not, let's call it pure speculation and get off JH's back!

[CuseCubFan69]

I have a sorta sketchy source in TB who says that either huff or lugo (or both) could have beenhad but hendry wouldn't give up guzman...

 

Then Hendry made at least one right move this off season.

 

Huff's salary would have been $2M more than Jones this year for similar to less offensive production and sub par defense. Plus, Jones didn't cost the Cubs any prospects.

 

23 HR .249 .317 .757

22 HR .261 .321 .749

 

Definetely not a $2M difference.

 

You are correct that it is not a 2m difference. However, how well will Jacque Jones play 3b if Ramirez has to miss any significant time?

 

While Tampa may have been asking for Guzman in the early stages of the offseason, I'm sure it would take much less now. Between Huff coming off a bad year, his high dollar contract, 1 year rental and the fact very few teams have 7.5m to drop on an outfielder, I highly doubt that it would have taken much more or even as much as Nolasco and Pinto to get Huff at this later stage of the offseason. Compare it to Sammy last year. When the Cubs planned on moving Sammy, they set their hopes high for a guy like Cliff Floyd from New York in the early stages. Instead of a power hitting, high OPS guy who provides + production, they got a career part time player and a minor leaguer or two while paying all of Sammy's contract.

 

Hey, Tampa may still be holding out for Guzman. If that's the case, fine. They can keep Huff. The Cubs will have the option of signing him as a free agent next year where it definitely won't cost them Guzman.

 

I feel the Cubs really dropped the ball by not resigning Nomar. Fine, he can't field SS well enough to be an everyday starter? Stick him in RF. Use a guy like Jacque Jones as a 4th outfielder or spot starter if Nomar is replacing Aramis for whatever reason. Nomar wouldn't have costed that much, he would have costed us any players and he would likely provide more production than any one of our current starting outfielders.

 

If your offseason worked out so well that Nomar is just a bit part, trade him to someone who has a starting job available. I think the Cubs are going to miss his bat. Yes, I know he missed most of the 2005 season so that there wasn't much bat to miss. However, it's 2006 now. Just because he missed a huge part of 2005 doesn't mean that it's automatic that he'd miss most of 2006. I guess we'll soon find out.

 

BbB can you guarantee that Baker would even put Huff there? When is the last time Huff played third? My money says he would put Mabry or a defensive whiz like Perez there instead. I hate the fact that Baker is always in these equations.

Edited January 21, 2006 by CuseCubFan69

[rawaction]

Is there confirmation that the Rays wanted the exact package we sent to Florida for Juan? If not, let's call it pure speculation and get off JH's back!

 

It doesn't matter if it was the exact package. All things point to it taking a very similar package to get Huff. It was probably gonna take a better prospect than Mitre, but not anyone the Cubs would be lost without (i.e. not Pie, Hill, Gallagher, Marmol, Eric Patterson). My guess is Pinto, Nolasco, and one of Harvey/Dopirak would have gotten it done, perhaps with a minor leaguer coming back to the Cubs. And yes, that's speculation, but I believe it's an educated guess.

[seanhopper]

Is there confirmation that the Rays wanted the exact package we sent to Florida for Juan? If not, let's call it pure speculation and get off JH's back!

 

I definitely read Rosenthal's comments to mean the Rays were interested in 2 of the prospects the Cubs traded as part of a deal for Huff--not the same deal or the whole deal. Outside of the fact that this could all be heresay, the rest of the deal, i.e. Hill, Guzman, or Pie, could have been way too rich for JH to part with (which we would all agree). If that's the case--pure speculation on my part--then I would rather have Jones and Pierre than Huff and ??? for the prospects they would have given up.

[RockTheIvy]

While I like Lofton a lot, I am happier with Pierre. But I get the feeling Hendry could have offered a bit less, maybe making two deals, using a few more players, and have still netted Pierre plus Huff. Pierre, Murton and Huff in the outfield isn't bad at all.

[BigbadB]

BbB can you guarantee that Baker would even put Huff there? When is the last time Huff played third? My money says he would put Mabry or a defensive whiz like Perez there instead. I hate the fact that Baker is always in these equations.

 

I can't and/or won't guarantee anything with Baker in charge.

[CuseCubFan69]

BbB can you guarantee that Baker would even put Huff there? When is the last time Huff played third? My money says he would put Mabry or a defensive whiz like Perez there instead. I hate the fact that Baker is always in these equations.

 

I can't and/or won't guarantee anything with Baker in charge.

 

You can guarentee logic won't be used.

 

I've been anti-Huff from the begining so I'm curious on how he is going to do this year. I still think he's a DH type and not worth 7 to play in the NL.

[BigbadB]

You may be right. I only jumped on the Huff bandwagon when Giles stayed in San Diego, Nomar got let go by the Cubs, Bradley got traded to Oakland, Wilkerson got traded to Texas, etc.....(in no particular order)

 

I wanted to see a power bat in the outfield, and Jones just didn't do it for me.

[CuseCubFan69]

You may be right. I only jumped on the Huff bandwagon when Giles stayed in San Diego, Nomar got let go by the Cubs, Bradley got traded to Oakland, Wilkerson got traded to Texas, etc.....(in no particular order)

 

I wanted to see a power bat in the outfield, and Jones just didn't do it for me.

 

I agree. That's why I'm on the Weaver bandwagon and the Cubs can trade Williams and Murton plus others to get something impact...at the worst Floyd.

[rawaction]

BbB can you guarantee that Baker would even put Huff there? When is the last time Huff played third? My money says he would put Mabry or a defensive whiz like Perez there instead. I hate the fact that Baker is always in these equations.

 

I can't and/or won't guarantee anything with Baker in charge.

 

You can guarentee logic won't be used.

 

I've been anti-Huff from the begining so I'm curious on how he is going to do this year. I still think he's a DH type and not worth 7 to play in the NL.

 

For one year, not a big deal to me. Let him go this offseason and try something else. Like BbB said, he wasn't the first choice, but now he may be the best. Next offseason, the list of available OFs will probably be very similar with the same guys rumored to be traded this year either being a FA or being in their last year of their current deals. Guys like Dunn, Abreu, Sheff are more likely to be traded, and guys like Guillen, Carlos Lee, Floyd, and Bradley will be FAs.

[CuseCubFan69]

BbB can you guarantee that Baker would even put Huff there? When is the last time Huff played third? My money says he would put Mabry or a defensive whiz like Perez there instead. I hate the fact that Baker is always in these equations.

 

I can't and/or won't guarantee anything with Baker in charge.

 

You can guarentee logic won't be used.

 

I've been anti-Huff from the begining so I'm curious on how he is going to do this year. I still think he's a DH type and not worth 7 to play in the NL.

 

For one year, not a big deal to me. Let him go this offseason and try something else. Like BbB said, he wasn't the first choice, but now he may be the best. Next offseason, the list of available OFs will probably be very similar with the same guys rumored to be traded this year either being a FA or being in their last year of their current deals. Guys like Dunn, Abreu, Sheff are more likely to be traded, and guys like Guillen, Carlos Lee, Floyd, and Bradley will be FAs.

 

That a lot of prospects for one year and a guy IMO will hit 250/330 and butcher the OF.

[Backtobanks]

So basically, for the same three pitchers sent to Florida for Juan Pierre, plus the money spent on Jacques Jones, Hendry instead could have Aubrey Huff and have signed free agent Kenny Lofton. Lovely.

 

Huff >> Jones

Lofton = Pierre

Huff + Lofton = $8MM (approximately)

Pierre + Jones = $12MM (approximately)

 

So even better, he'd have had $4MM in extra cash, which could have been used with the $7MM in spare cash he still has unspent, to sign AJ Burnett.

 

Yep, Hendry should be fired.

 

I don't think that Lofton, at this stage of his career, is equal to Pierre. I think Jones is going to be okay in RF and surpise a lot of people.