Why does everyone hate Neifi Perez?

[atcfootball]

Let me first say I am NOT a fan of his. I did not like it when he was playing so much last year, however he did come up with a big hits early in the year for us, he just played a little to much I think over the year!

His Stats...

59R 157H 9HR 54RBI 8SB .274AVG .298OPB .383SLG 10E .982FP

 

At the same age....

Dunston

38R 92H 11HR 35RBI 10SB .278AVG .313OBP .435SLG 12E .966FP (84G)

Bowa

93R 175H 4HR 41RBI 32SB .280AVG .313OBP .340SLG 13E .983FP

AGone 30yrs

71R 122H 20HR 59RBI 6SB .228AVG .295OBP .409SLG 10E .984FP

 

Look at it, it's not like we have had rather stellar play from our SS position to start with. When you think of the fact that he was going into the season as a bench player, I think his production was not all that bad.

 

Now I would rather NOT have seen him play, but since Nomar got hurt, Perez was the best option. Cedeno really had not proven (at the time of Nomar being hurt) to be ready for the Majors, he was off to a great start in Iowa, but his prior years in the minors (hitting) did not lead anyone to think it would continue. His avgs

00 - .278 R

01 - .196 A

02 - .218 A

03 - .213 A

04 - .279 AA

05 - .355 AAA

 

Again I want to say I'm not a Perez fan, but look at his numbers and looking at what other Cub SS have done in the past, there were not just plan bad as some would think. Okay, maybe they are bad when looking around the rest of the leauge and era that he plays in, but when i look at what we (the cubs) have had in the past, I have to say, he did not do that bad of a job.

[CubsWin]

I don't know exactly why people hate Neifi Perez so much. I'm probably wrong, but it may have something to do with the onset of fantasy baseball, the Bill James book Moneyball and the frustration of the Cubs failing to win a World Series during our lifetimes.

 

When you mix the notion that you could be just as good of a GM as the next guy because you won your fantasy baseball league with the importance some people who have read Moneyball (and played fantasy baseball) place on OBP and then add in a healthy dose of anger and frustration with the lack of a Cubs championship, scapegoats and whipping boys start coming out of the woodwork.

 

"Neifi Perez?! He sucks. He would never be on my fantasy baseball team. In fact, he wasn't on anyone's roster in the league I was in. Plus, look at his OBP. Its terrible. Even I know that Neifi doesn't deserve to be on a major league roster. Hendry must be an idiot."

 

And that is the end of deliberations in the trial of Neifi Perez. It must feel good to be the prosecutor, judge and jury.

 

Disclaimer: For those that wish to respond to this post and make this a black-and-white issue without any complexities, please read this first. This is one person's opinion and I certainly could be wrong. I am open to understanding those who hate Neifi Perez and think he is undeserving of a spot on any major league roster. I love fantasy sports. I agree with what Moneyball has to say for the most part. And I agree that getting on base will help your team score runs. But I don't think that Neifi Perez sucks. Nor do I think that he doesn't deserve to be on a major league roster. I don't think he was ever signed by the Cubs with the intention of being a starter. I don't think he should start. I think that there are a lot of ways to help your team win and getting on base over 35% of the time is just one of them. I don't think stats tell the whole story of what a player brings to a team's ability to win games. And I think managers and GMs know more information about their players than the fans do. I don't think they always make the best decisions with that information, however.

[CuseCubFan69]

For me it's more of a frustration with Baker using him way too much and batting him at the top of the lineup. If Johnnie B would use him in spot starts at SS and 2B and bat him 8th I would have no problem with him being on the team.

[CarolinaCubFan]

For me it's more of a frustration with Baker using him way too much and batting him at the top of the lineup. If Johnnie B would use him in spot starts at SS and 2B and bat him 8th I would have no problem with him being on the team.

 

I concur. I don't hate Perez, I hate the way he is used. I'd just prefer not to have him on the team. Come to think of it, I'd keep Neifi on the roster, if we got rid of Baker.

[Schwarber Fan]

IMO, he's such a streaky hitter

 

P.S. I see this thread going to 20 pages

[Bgbird68]

I don't know exactly why people hate Neifi Perez so much. I'm probably wrong, but it may have something to do with the onset of fantasy baseball, the Bill James book Moneyball and the frustration of the Cubs failing to win a World Series during our lifetimes.

 

When you mix the notion that you could be just as good of a GM as the next guy because you won your fantasy baseball league with the importance some people who have read Moneyball (and played fantasy baseball) place on OBP and then add in a healthy dose of anger and frustration with the lack of a Cubs championship, scapegoats and whipping boys start coming out of the woodwork.

 

"Neifi Perez?! He sucks. He would never be on my fantasy baseball team. In fact, he wasn't on anyone's roster in the league I was in. Plus, look at his OBP. Its terrible. Even I know that Neifi doesn't deserve to be on a major league roster. Hendry must be an idiot."

 

And that is the end of deliberations in the trial of Neifi Perez. It must feel good to be the prosecutor, judge and jury.

 

Disclaimer: For those that wish to respond to this post and make this a black-and-white issue without any complexities, please read this first. This is one person's opinion and I certainly could be wrong. I am open to understanding those who hate Neifi Perez and think he is undeserving of a spot on any major league roster. I love fantasy sports. I agree with what Moneyball has to say for the most part. And I agree that getting on base will help your team score runs. But I don't think that Neifi Perez sucks. Nor do I think that he doesn't deserve to be on a major league roster. I don't think he was ever signed by the Cubs with the intention of being a starter. I don't think he should start. I think that there are a lot of ways to help your team win and getting on base over 35% of the time is just one of them. I don't think stats tell the whole story of what a player brings to a team's ability to win games. And I think managers and GMs know more information about their players than the fans do. I don't think they always make the best decisions with that information, however.

 

I'll have to disagree. I don't think I've ever heard or read any post with "fantasy baseball" being a reason people don't like Neifi. The main reason I don't like Neifi is Dusty, for two reasons:

 

1. Neifi is a bench player and would be used as such on any other club, barring major injuries. However, Dusty felt the need to start him when.....

 

2. The Cubs were out of the race.

 

3. Neifi continued to play poorly

 

4. Ronnie Cedeno sits on the bench when Neifi plays. Who knows what moves could have been made this offseason if only the Cubs organization had a true barometer on what kind of player Cedeno is. But sadly, due to Dusty, the Cubs don't have a lot to go on regarding Ronnie. Valuable big league experience was wasted because of Dusty.

 

I also don't like Neifi when Macowiak was available. IMO, he's a MUCH better bench guy than Perez.

 

And CubsWin, what's with the disclaimer?

[JC]

What a bunch of utter nonsense, CubsWin. I can think of few posts lacking less foundation or merit.

[CubinNY]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I don't like that Hendry gave him a substantial raise and signed him to multi-years. I don't like the fact that Dusty has said that, "Perez saved" the Cubs. I don't like the fact that he played over Cedeno when the Cubs were out last year. I also don't particularly care that he may be the starting SS or 2nd baseman over either Cedeno or Walker. He is not an everyday player.

 

However, I don't think "People" whoever they are, hate Neifie.

 

What I do think is that "people" who disagree with other posters' opinons shouldn't sterotype.

[Scott G. F.]

I had Neifi! on my fantasy team. He is a streaky player. I don't hate him. I like him but off the bench. The numbers for Neifi! have been established whereas Cedano might have superior numbers. He has the "potential" (another favorite word that is becoming a "Red Badge of Corey" around here).

 

That's what frustrates me to no end with Dustyball. He'd rather know he's getting Neifi! numbers then to relay on an unknown Cedano that has a possibility be being much better.

 

My 2 cents.

[katway]

I don't think anyone "hates" Neifi. However, a lot of people disagree with Dusty's use of Neifi, especially in the 2nd half of the year when Cedeno appeared to be ready or at least should have been given an opportunity.

Hendry called up Cedeno and all he would do is sit on the bench while Neifi continued to struggle. Even when Cedeno received an opportunity, Neifi would not sit on the bench; instead, Dusty would start Neifi at second over Walker and Hairston.

 

Neifi is a good player off the bench, but he receives far too much Dusty love to the detriment of other players.

[USSoccer]

I have no personal hate for Neifi. I dislike and disagree with the way he is used, the amount of AB's he got in the top 2 spots of the order, and the fact that he was given a raise after a very mediocre season.

 

And even if you want to look at the more traditional offensive metrics, his BA isn't very good. His offensive production was porr given his AB's. He hits into far too many DP's, which is death for a lineup given that, again, he hit in the top 2 spots was too often.

 

I cannot fathom why anyone would say he was the best option, either. Ronny Cedeno could have *at the least* given you a .274 BA with a .290 OBP. And, given his performance in the PT he did get, coupled with his minor league numbers and Winter Ball numbers, would in all likelihood given you much better production at a fraction of the cost.

 

If you want a 25th man who is a good teamate and can play 2 IF positions, fine. Just don't pay him $5m over 2 years. That's 5 times more than what he should get. Also, don't give him 500 plate appearances. Let him be a defensive replacement for someone who can actually hit, and give him a pty start every 10 days. That's how a 25th man is supposed to be treated.

 

Also, comparing his stats to Bowa's, Dunston's and Gonzalez's is useless. None of those players were or are any good.

 

In a very real way, Neifi is a living example of everything wrong with Baker and Hendry.

Edited January 20, 2006 by USSoccer

[CUBZ99]

 

I'll have to disagree. I don't think I've ever heard or read any post with "fantasy baseball" being a reason people don't like Neifi. The main reason I don't like Neifi is Dusty, for two reasons:

 

1. Neifi is a bench player and would be used as such on any other club, barring major injuries. However, Dusty felt the need to start him when.....

 

2. The Cubs were out of the race.

 

3. Neifi continued to play poorly

 

4. Ronnie Cedeno sits on the bench when Neifi plays. Who knows what moves could have been made this offseason if only the Cubs organization had a true barometer on what kind of player Cedeno is. But sadly, due to Dusty, the Cubs don't have a lot to go on regarding Ronnie. Valuable big league experience was wasted because of Dusty.

 

I also don't like Neifi when Macowiak was available. IMO, he's a MUCH better bench guy than Perez.

 

And CubsWin, what's with the disclaimer?

 

Neifi's offense stats last year were average for National League SS and there are other teams who he could have signed with, that would use him as a starting SS.

 

However, those teams are probably small market teams.

[Dr. Cub]

I don't know exactly why people hate Neifi Perez so much. I'm probably wrong, but it may have something to do with the onset of fantasy baseball, the Bill James book Moneyball and the frustration of the Cubs failing to win a World Series during our lifetimes.

 

When you mix the notion that you could be just as good of a GM as the next guy because you won your fantasy baseball league with the importance some people who have read Moneyball (and played fantasy baseball) place on OBP and then add in a healthy dose of anger and frustration with the lack of a Cubs championship, scapegoats and whipping boys start coming out of the woodwork.

 

"Neifi Perez?! He sucks. He would never be on my fantasy baseball team. In fact, he wasn't on anyone's roster in the league I was in. Plus, look at his OBP. Its terrible. Even I know that Neifi doesn't deserve to be on a major league roster. Hendry must be an idiot."

 

And that is the end of deliberations in the trial of Neifi Perez. It must feel good to be the prosecutor, judge and jury.

 

Disclaimer: For those that wish to respond to this post and make this a black-and-white issue without any complexities, please read this first. This is one person's opinion and I certainly could be wrong. I am open to understanding those who hate Neifi Perez and think he is undeserving of a spot on any major league roster. I love fantasy sports. I agree with what Moneyball has to say for the most part. And I agree that getting on base will help your team score runs. But I don't think that Neifi Perez sucks. Nor do I think that he doesn't deserve to be on a major league roster. I don't think he was ever signed by the Cubs with the intention of being a starter. I don't think he should start. I think that there are a lot of ways to help your team win and getting on base over 35% of the time is just one of them. I don't think stats tell the whole story of what a player brings to a team's ability to win games. And I think managers and GMs know more information about their players than the fans do. I don't think they always make the best decisions with that information, however.

 

Now granted my copy is older and wearing out, but I can't seem to find Bill James name on the cover. Joe, is that you?

 

Seriously though, I'd say very FEW people here HATE Neifi. What they cannot stand is the fact that DFB has used such a poor player in such a horrific fashion.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Dr. Cub

[wastra]

I don't hate Neifi at all.

 

 

I think He is vastly overvalued by the Cubs' brass and Dusty, and I think that over-value translates to too many dollars in his contract and too many minutes on the field that wind up hurting the team in other areas.

 

 

He's apparently a good clubhouse guy. He'd make a fine 24th or 25th man on any roster. The problem is that he's going to be getting 250+ at bats (bank on that) this year and offensively, he's just not good.

 

If he were our late inning defensive replacement, and got the occassional spot-start every couple weeks, he'd be fine.

 

 

 

 

 

The biggest issue is that we have a manager who beleives in getting as much work from our bench as possible. With that in mind (and I'm not criticising that philosophy), you MUST make sure you have an above average bench. We don't. We have a terribly imbalanced bench of questionable value (at best) in a starting role.

[TB_11]

His Stats...

59R 157H 9HR 54RBI 8SB .274AVG .298OPB .383SLG 10E .982FP

 

At the same age....

Dunston

38R 92H 11HR 35RBI 10SB .278AVG .313OBP .435SLG 12E .966FP (84G)

Bowa

93R 175H 4HR 41RBI 32SB .280AVG .313OBP .340SLG 13E .983FP

AGone 30yrs

71R 122H 20HR 59RBI 6SB .228AVG .295OBP .409SLG 10E .984FP

 

Those stats show that the Cubs haven't gotten any significant production production out of their recent shortstops, and shouldn't be used to backup any point about why Neifi isn't that bad.

 

Here are more relevant statistics:

 

Out of all NL shortstops who had 500 PAs last year, Neifi ranked 10th out of 11 in OBP

 

Out of all NL shortstops who had 500 PAs last year, Neifi ranked 7th out of 11 in SLG.

 

He is a poor hitter and we all know that. What people here hate isn't Neifi, it's that even with his pathetic offensive production Dusty still batted him at the top of the order, preventing Derrek Lee from turning his doubles and HRs into more runs.

 

That being said, I like him on my team as a 25th guy. I hate him being used as an everyday player batting in front of Derrek.

[Dr. Cub]

His Stats...

59R 157H 9HR 54RBI 8SB .274AVG .298OPB .383SLG 10E .982FP

 

At the same age....

Dunston

38R 92H 11HR 35RBI 10SB .278AVG .313OBP .435SLG 12E .966FP (84G)

Bowa

93R 175H 4HR 41RBI 32SB .280AVG .313OBP .340SLG 13E .983FP

AGone 30yrs

71R 122H 20HR 59RBI 6SB .228AVG .295OBP .409SLG 10E .984FP

 

Those stats show that the Cubs haven't gotten any significant production production out of their recent shortstops, and shouldn't be used to backup any point about why Neifi isn't that bad.

 

Here are more relevant statistics:

 

Out of all NL shortstops who had 500 PAs last year, Neifi ranked 10th out of 11 in OBP

 

Out of all NL shortstops who had 500 PAs last year, Neifi ranked 7th out of 11 in SLG.

 

He is a poor hitter and we all know that. What people here hate isn't Neifi, it's that even with his pathetic offensive production Dusty still batted him at the top of the order, preventing Derrek Lee from turning his doubles and HRs into more runs.

 

That being said, I like him on my team as a 25th guy. I hate him being used as an everyday player batting in front of Derrek.

 

=D>

[Bull]

His Stats...

59R 157H 9HR 54RBI 8SB .274AVG .298OPB .383SLG 10E .982FP

 

At the same age....

Dunston

38R 92H 11HR 35RBI 10SB .278AVG .313OBP .435SLG 12E .966FP (84G)

Bowa

93R 175H 4HR 41RBI 32SB .280AVG .313OBP .340SLG 13E .983FP

AGone 30yrs

71R 122H 20HR 59RBI 6SB .228AVG .295OBP .409SLG 10E .984FP

 

Those stats show that the Cubs haven't gotten any significant production production out of their recent shortstops, and shouldn't be used to backup any point about why Neifi isn't that bad.

 

Here are more relevant statistics:

 

Out of all NL shortstops who had 500 PAs last year, Neifi ranked 10th out of 11 in OBP

 

Out of all NL shortstops who had 500 PAs last year, Neifi ranked 7th out of 11 in SLG.

 

He is a poor hitter and we all know that. What people here hate isn't Neifi, it's that even with his pathetic offensive production Dusty still batted him at the top of the order, preventing Derrek Lee from turning his doubles and HRs into more runs.

 

That being said, I like him on my team as a 25th guy. I hate him being used as an everyday player batting in front of Derrek.

 

This is the first good point in this thread.

 

Dunston and Bowa were in an era where Shortstops weren't expected to produce. And AGonz can't be used to legitimize anyone's production.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

One of the few things I can't stand worse than having Neifi on the team is people who think people's opinions are based on fantasy baseball.

 

Neifi is terrible. He's one of the worst offensive players of our generation who got the amount of PT that he has. He shouldn't be on a roster that wants to compete.

[J.R.]

Also, comparing his stats to Bowa's, Dunston's and Gonzalez's is useless. None of those players were or are any good.

 

I had to laugh when I saw those comparisons. I guess we'll start using Hector as a benchmark for catching excellence, too.

 

In a very real way, Neifi is a living example of everything wrong with Baker and Hendry.

 

Without doubt.

 

He shouldn't be on a roster that wants to compete.

 

See above.

[RynoRules]

I agree that Neifi is overused and missused by Dusty. That said, I like him because he appears to try hard (even if the results are limited) and he plays solid defense. The fact that he is limited offensively and his manager uses him in a backwards manner is not a reason to hate him.

[RynoRules]

What a bunch of utter nonsense, CubsWin. I can think of few posts lacking less foundation or merit.

 

I disagree - there have been plenty of posts here that have been farther "off the deep end"; this is not one of them. What he posted, with a disclaimer mind you, was his opinion on the topic. I don't agree with all of it, but who cares.

 

Please explain why what he wrote is "utter nonsense" and is as much lacking in "merit" and "foundation" as anything you have seen here.

[CubinNY]

The fact that he is limited offensively and his manager uses him in a backwards manner is not a reason to hate him.

 

Has anyone in this thread said that they hate Neifie?

 

People have siad they hate the way Neifie has been employed by the managment of the Cubs. That is all most people ever say.

 

Come down off the box.

[RynoRules]

The fact that he is limited offensively and his manager uses him in a backwards manner is not a reason to hate him.

 

Has anyone in this thread said that they hate Neifie?

 

People have siad they hate the way Neifie has been employed by the managment of the Cubs. That is all most people ever say.

 

Come down off the box.

 

People on this bd. have stated that they hate several Cubs; Neifi, Dusty, and Hendry included. I can't do a search, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

In any case, it wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, so take it easy.

 

EDIT:

 

FYI, here is one prominent member's signature line:

 

Creator of the "I Hate Jim Hendry" BandWGN

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Hate Neifi? No.

Hate Baker? Yes.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't hate Neifi.

 

I hate how much, and how, Dusty plays him. I hate how much value Hendry places on him and how much of the payroll is dedicated to him. And I hate how much credit people give him for "saving the Cubs", "playing excellent last year" and "being one of the lone bright spots on the team". I hate that people still completely dismiss the concepts behind the theories that say just how worthless Neifi is.

 

Neifi is a completely replacable back of the bench player. He should not have a two year contract. He should not have a guaranteed contract, or come close to making $2.5m. He should not be considered as a potential starter. This is as ignorant as purposefully going into a season with an OF of Hollandsworth, Patterson and Burnitz. If he's on your team, he should be making the minimum, and strictly be a backup. He's proven over and over that he sucks offensively, and will severely hurt your team the more he plays.

 

What I hate most about Neifi is the circumstances surrounding his presence on the roster.