Corey Patterson traded to Balt. (per Levine)

[CubfaninCA]

The Cubs aren't going shell out $5.5 million or so for 2 gloves.

 

Why not? They've wasted far more on other guys who are mostly just gloves, and their entire offseason focus was on guys who can catch the ball.

 

Like who?

 

Entire focus??

[frostwyrm]

Kenny Lofton is the worst troublemaker in baseball.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Cubs aren't going shell out $5.5 million or so for 2 gloves.

 

Why not? They've wasted far more on other guys who are mostly just gloves, and their entire offseason focus was on guys who can catch the ball.

 

Like who?

 

Entire focus??

 

Jones, Neifi, Pierre(although he really isn't a great defender), the persistent rumors of Walker being gone, Furcal as a FA target, etc. Just about every offensive move made this offseason save Mabry could be related back to increased emphasis on defense.

[Tim]

I understand Hendry is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't, but you can't tell me that there was any compelling reason to keep Corey Patterson. And by compelling, I don't mean "He might, he might..."

 

I think the most compelling reason would be that there is a good chance he was the 4th best OF on the team, and $3m is not outlandish for 4th OF, especially not for a team that guarantees $5m for Neifi Perez.

 

There was also a decent chance he'd be the 3rd best OF, and an outside shot of being the best or second best OF on this years team. That's not saying I expect him to be all that good this year, but the current OF isn't any good, and it wouldn't take much to outproduce some of them, at least.

Neifi had a far better year than Corey did.

 

Perhaps. But he still sucked, and he consistently sucks. Corey's off year was an unexpected low. Neifi's crappy season was an expected clunker. The point is if you are willing to pay Neifi $5m, you have to be willing to pay Corey $3m, so money can't be the reason.

No, to make it equal you would have to say you are paying Corey $6 million. Maybe Neifi didn't help fantasy teams, but he sure as heck wasn't the main problem the Cubs had. It is entertaining to read people missing Corey after all the bashing he has received on this board for at least 6 months.

It is interesting that you make this kind of statement given that you are certainly bright enough to know those comments are coming from different groups of people. It makes me wonder what the purpose of such a statement could be, other than to provoke the person you are addressing.

I'm pretty sure with Neifi's bonus money he is indeed making 6mil.

I was responding to the bolded portion of OCF's statement.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Has there been any confirmation that the Cubs are NOT paying the O's any money to take Patterson off our hands? So long as that's the case, I'm satisfied with the move. Patterson has no value right now, and by tendering, Hendry at least got a marginal SS prospect and potential future big league utility infielder. That's better than nothing, if Patterson would have been non-tendered.

 

If Hendry paid Baltimore ANY money though, it's a bad deal. Given how low these prospects were on Baltimore's depth chart, I'd have to think that's why there is no money changing hands.

 

So once Walker leaves, I have the payroll at $93MM, figuring $5MM for Z and Prior, $6MM for Pierre, and $1.5MM for Hairston in arbitration. So with $7MM on the table, if Hendry hadn't signed Neifi he'd have the money to acquire AJ Burnett, do I have that about right?

[Tim]

So once Walker leaves, I have the payroll at $93MM, figuring $5MM for Z and Prior, $6MM for Pierre, and $1.5MM for Hairston in arbitration. So with $7MM on the table, if Hendry hadn't signed Neifi he'd have the money to acquire AJ Burnett, do I have that about right?

Assuming your numbers are right, I'd replace Rusch with AJB or Millwood rather than Neifi. I think I'm in the minority, but I think he's a perfectly fine backup IF. The only problem comes if he's counted upon in a starting role, which I'm still hoping against.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

So once Walker leaves, I have the payroll at $93MM, figuring $5MM for Z and Prior, $6MM for Pierre, and $1.5MM for Hairston in arbitration. So with $7MM on the table, if Hendry hadn't signed Neifi he'd have the money to acquire AJ Burnett, do I have that about right?

Assuming your numbers are right, I'd replace Rusch with AJB or Millwood rather than Neifi. I think I'm in the minority, but I think he's a perfectly fine backup IF. The only problem comes if he's counted upon in a starting role, which I'm still hoping against.

 

The crime here is that Hendry puts a product this inferior on the field with so much money to spend. A pretty damnable indictment if you ask me.

[series65cubsfan]

Assuming your numbers are right, I'd replace Rusch with AJB or Millwood rather than Neifi. I think I'm in the minority, but I think he's a perfectly fine backup IF. The only problem comes if he's counted upon in a starting role, which I'm still hoping against.

 

I'm with you on this one Tim. I think Neifi can be a usefull piece of this Cubs team (albeit expensive) if utilized correctly. Much like Hollandsworth is not a bad player. Just not starter material, as has been discussed many rounds on this board.

[oldcubsfan]

I understand Hendry is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't, but you can't tell me that there was any compelling reason to keep Corey Patterson. And by compelling, I don't mean "He might, he might..."

 

I think the most compelling reason would be that there is a good chance he was the 4th best OF on the team, and $3m is not outlandish for 4th OF, especially not for a team that guarantees $5m for Neifi Perez.

 

There was also a decent chance he'd be the 3rd best OF, and an outside shot of being the best or second best OF on this years team. That's not saying I expect him to be all that good this year, but the current OF isn't any good, and it wouldn't take much to outproduce some of them, at least.

Neifi had a far better year than Corey did.

 

Perhaps. But he still sucked, and he consistently sucks. Corey's off year was an unexpected low. Neifi's crappy season was an expected clunker. The point is if you are willing to pay Neifi $5m, you have to be willing to pay Corey $3m, so money can't be the reason.

No, to make it equal you would have to say you are paying Corey $6 million. Maybe Neifi didn't help fantasy teams, but he sure as heck wasn't the main problem the Cubs had. It is entertaining to read people missing Corey after all the bashing he has received on this board for at least 6 months.

It is interesting that you make this kind of statement given that you are certainly bright enough to know those comments are coming from different groups of people. It makes me wonder what the purpose of such a statement could be, other than to provoke the person you are addressing.

I'm pretty sure with Neifi's bonus money he is indeed making 6mil.

I was responding to the bolded portion of OCF's statement.

I wasn't the one who put it in bold print, heck I don't even know how to do it!!

[Tim]

So once Walker leaves, I have the payroll at $93MM, figuring $5MM for Z and Prior, $6MM for Pierre, and $1.5MM for Hairston in arbitration. So with $7MM on the table, if Hendry hadn't signed Neifi he'd have the money to acquire AJ Burnett, do I have that about right?

Assuming your numbers are right, I'd replace Rusch with AJB or Millwood rather than Neifi. I think I'm in the minority, but I think he's a perfectly fine backup IF. The only problem comes if he's counted upon in a starting role, which I'm still hoping against.

 

The crime here is that Hendry puts a product this inferior on the field with so much money to spend. A pretty damnable indictment if you ask me.

Of course, I probably would have gone a cheaper route with the pitching and just worked my butt off to overwhelm Brian Giles to convince him to leave SD.

 

Z/Prior/Maddux/Williams/rookie-until-Wood-is-back as a staff

 

I would have saved the money wasted on Eyre & Rusch & Jones and offered it plus the excess $7M to Brian.

 

I like my team better. :(

[Omar]

God he'll probably go to Baltmore and bash the Cubs. Like some other player(s).

[Tim]

It is entertaining to read people missing Corey after all the bashing he has received on this board for at least 6 months.

It is interesting that you make this kind of statement given that you are certainly bright enough to know those comments are coming from different groups of people. It makes me wonder what the purpose of such a statement could be, other than to provoke the person you are addressing.

I'm pretty sure with Neifi's bonus money he is indeed making 6mil.

I was responding to the bolded portion of OCF's statement.

I wasn't the one who put it in bold print, heck I don't even know how to do it!!

I put it in bold to show YODC what part of your post I was responding to since there was a misunderstanding on his part.

[radarluv1]

is corey expected to be starting CFer next year?

[Jon]

I don't think Corey accepted his demotion well at all. Also, when he went to the minor leagues he reportedly told his new hitting coach that the Cubs staff had not tried to help him close the holes in his swing (which prompted him to later retract his statement). I don't disagree that the Cubs wanted a true "leadoff man," but I do believe that if Corey had shown the organization that he was willing to follow their direction he would not have been traded. I believe they would have considered moving him to RF and batting him lower in the lineup.

I don't recall that being anything more than a sports radio rumor. He also went to Mesa first to work with Keller...in July...during the day...outside. And reports indicated that he worked a lot down there. He did more than plenty, clearly outweighing the benefit of playing winter ball. There's no reason that should overshadow his other work.

 

One of the biggest cliches in sports right now is to not get too high with the highs and too low with the lows. That describes Corey very well, yet his lack of visible frustration let the media and fans walk all over him.

 

Corey went into the season needing to work on increasing contact and improving strike zone recognition. The bottom line is that the coaches decided not to focus on that without drastically deemphasizing his power while reconstructing his swing. They made a big mistake. The organization made a big mistake by rushing him and allowing that mistake to be made. And none of them were penalized. Clines and Sarge are still the hitting coaches. There is no indication that this organization learned anything from all of this. That's what scares me.

[Mark_R]

Jon, realistically, what should the Cubs have done during the course of Corey's awfulness during the season?

 

And honestly, how many chances do we have to give a guy before we realize its not going to work out here?

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I will only add that it's very difficult to re-teach a 26 year-old with five years big league experience how to swing correctly through the strike zone. Until Patterson corrects that upper-cut, he is doomed. Let him figure that out elsewhere, honestly, I think the Cubs gave him plenty of chances. You can argue he wasn't given proper instruction, and I wouldn't deny that. But results matter, and it really was time for the Cubs to move on. If he figures it out eventually for someone else, then bully for him.

 

I'm only disappointed that we got such crap prospects in exchange. Hendry couldn't even score Majewski for a major leaguer?

[JC]

I haven't read the 8 pages of this thread. I just want to exress my disappointment in the Cubs once again settling on making a deal with no leverage whatsoever. There is just no sense in the manner in which this management team negotiates, evaluates or makes transactions in general.

[oldcubsfan]

this is good:

 

link

[RockTheIvy]

I haven't read the 8 pages of this thread. I just want to exress my disappointment in the Cubs once again settling on making a deal with no leverage whatsoever. There is just no sense in the manner in which this management team negotiates, evaluates or makes transactions in general.

 

But isn't this better than not tending him a contract? I mean I think (K)orey pretty hit rock bottom here and needs a change of scenery. Hendry totally mishandled the Sosa and Farnsworth deals, but I think this is different. If he never pans out, then this isn't a terrible trade, IMO.

[T2E]

Some more info on Spears from BA:

 

Q: Joe from Long Beach, CA asks:

Happy New Year, Will! How does Nate Spears project? His numbers look a bit better than Brian Roberts' early minor league totals...any chance he develops the same power that Roberts did in 2005?

 

A: Will Lingo: Happy New Year to you too, Joe. That's an interesting comparison between Spears and Roberts. I went back and looked at our report on Roberts when he was No. 10 on the Orioles list before the 2001 season, and here's what it says: "His tools aren't overwhelming, but the package is greater than the sum of its parts." That's a lot like what we say about Nate Spears now, though Roberts' tools back then probably graded a shade ahead of Spears' across the board. The Orioles prospect list is also stouter now than it was then. But if you're asking me to guess, then no, I don't think Spears will develop power and I think he'll be a utility guy.

 

While there might not be anything flashy about him, Spears garners comparisons to David Eckstein--a label that's just fine by him. He handles situational hitting well and excels at moving runners over. In short, he does all the little things the right way.

 

Some info on Spears from http://www.orioleshangout.com

 

#14 Prospect

2005 Teams: Frederick (A+)

Projected Role: Lower Division second base starter

Notes - A 20-year old who hits .294 with 42 extra base hits in the Carolina League is something, but what is the real question. Only average defensively and not a speedster on the bases. His 36-82 BB-K ratio is a bit of concern as well. A little guy who doesn't have a projectable frame. If he turns those doubles into homers at a higher level he may become a better prospect, but right now it's hard to project him as more than a lower Division second baseman. He's a baseball rat who continues to beat the odds, so don't bet against him.

 

Info on Carlos Perez from http://www.orioleshangout.com

 

#36 Prospect in system

2005 Team: Delmarva (A-)

Projected Role: 5th starter/setup

Notes - Started off the year like gangbusters. Went 4-4 with a decent 3.08 ERA with 72 strikeouts and 26 walks in 70 innings pitched through his first 13 starts. Lost his command a bit after that stretch and even worse, started to get hit like Mike Timlin in a save situation. Ended up with career highs in just about every category but allowed Sally League batters to hit .280 off him. With less then overwhelming stuff, and at 23-years old, Perez will need to prove more next year at Frederick.

[Jon]

Jon, realistically, what should the Cubs have done during the course of Corey's awfulness during the season?

 

And honestly, how many chances do we have to give a guy before we realize its not going to work out here?

Gotten a clue to start. It shouldn't take that long to realize that the answer wasn't to continue to turn him into leadoff hitter. Things went south in a hurry. The best option was to go back to his original swing and work from that. He needed to continue to work on his contact and strike zone recognition. It's normal progress that should've been emphasized with more time in the minors to being with, but since they can't go back in time, that should have been the primary focus. It wasn't.

 

How many young players are going to have good seasons when the management and coaching staff tries to completely change a player's mechanics and approach at the plate in the big leagues while the season is in progress and have other basic areas they need to work on? Very few.

[gflore34]

I haven't read the 8 pages of this thread. I just want to exress my disappointment in the Cubs once again settling on making a deal with no leverage whatsoever. There is just no sense in the manner in which this management team negotiates, evaluates or makes transactions in general.

 

But isn't this better than not tending him a contract? I mean I think (K)orey pretty hit rock bottom here and needs a change of scenery. Hendry totally mishandled the Sosa and Farnsworth deals, but I think this is different. If he never pans out, then this isn't a terrible trade, IMO.

 

Agreed, I believe this is the best deal he could get for Patterson, don't you believe if he could have aquired a Soriano for Patterson he would have done so? Face it, there's wasn't a team out that was going to offer even an average ML player for Patterson.

[JC]

I haven't read the 8 pages of this thread. I just want to exress my disappointment in the Cubs once again settling on making a deal with no leverage whatsoever. There is just no sense in the manner in which this management team negotiates, evaluates or makes transactions in general.

 

But isn't this better than not tending him a contract? I mean I think (K)orey pretty hit rock bottom here and needs a change of scenery. Hendry totally mishandled the Sosa and Farnsworth deals, but I think this is different. If he never pans out, then this isn't a terrible trade, IMO.

 

Corey has flashed enough talent that, as has been said over and over, it is nearly impossible for him to be worse than he was in '05. When the Cubs' best prospect is a CFer who was projected to be a late call-up last year barring injury, it makes far more sense to me to start with Corey in center and use the Pierre resources elsewhere. If Corey fails, Pie comes up and ends the Corey experiment for good.

 

It makes fiscal sense to me and gives a glimmer of hope that the Cubs can develop SOME positional talent. Instead, we have a costly, no-power center fielder who's best talents are [expletive] (in part) by his new surroundings who is on a one year contract but is likely to be extended, further questioning Pie's future with the club. Run-on sentence or not, its a position in which few clubs likely find themselves envying the Cubs.

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

Everybody agrees that Patterson has plenty of potential but the bottom line is that you don't subject a person to all the angry fans and boo-birds until you wait for a guy to pan out. Corey's situation is very much like LaTroy Hawkins' or Todd Hundley's. Hendry should be thanked. He did Patterson a huge favor. Corey needed a fresh start.

--#26 Sweet Swinging Billy Williams (formerly ITex)

 

 

"Patterson was booed loudly and often at Wrigley Field".

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2285777

Edited January 10, 2006 by Sweet Swinging Billy

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

I haven't read the 8 pages of this thread. I just want to exress my disappointment in the Cubs once again settling on making a deal with no leverage whatsoever. There is just no sense in the manner in which this management team negotiates, evaluates or makes transactions in general.

 

Leverage, what leverage? As Bruce Miles stated on this forum just a few days ago Corey was not a hot name at all throughout the baseball world. I am seeing more and more us Cub fans value players much more than they are worth. How was JH supposed to get quality talent in return when he was giving up someone who everyone knew had a horrible year and frankly hasn't done much since his knee injury. The baseball world, heck even the casual Cubs fan knew Corey needed to go. He has talent, no doubt...but how many 23, 24, 25 year old ballplayers have a world of talent yet can't seem to put it together for love or money? Much more than the players who stand out and become legitimate players throughout MLB.

 

Think about it, JH traded Sosa for a decent player in JHJ. Sosa might end up shinning shoes again this spring as no team has interest in him. He traded Hawkins for a potential 4/5 starter in Williams. Other than the Farnsy trade and possibly the Juan Cruz trade, JH has done well IMO.