Should we be patient?

[The Voice of Reason]

I heard the same thing in November, I heard the same thing before the winter meeting. I heard the same thing during the winter meetings. I heard the same thing in April, May, June and July last season. I heard the same thing last offseason. I've heard about the need to be patient for years. The time for patience was 94-99, when Andy was overhauling a joke of a franchise. This team is no longer a joke. This team no longer has the excuse that the previous management group bled the franchise dry. This management team doesn't have the benefit of patience. It's now or never, do or die, or whatever else you want to say.

 

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

fact is..i do not care when they sign. the other fact is hendry has proven time and again that we should expect any move. the longer we wait, the less likely we get anyone of consequence. yeah we got a quality player late last year in burnitz....there are not many options out there and there will be far less in january,febrauary, march....

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

And please, don't give me your opinion, I would like just the facts. :D

 

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

 

fact is..i do not care when they sign. the other fact is hendry has proven time and again that we should expect any move. the longer we wait, the less likely we get anyone of consequence. yeah we got a quality player late last year in burnitz....there are not many options out there and there will be far less in january,febrauary, march....

 

That may or may not be true. Humor my optimism for a second.

 

Let's say the Mariners who need pitching overspend on Millwood. Then having just signed Everett, they decide previously untouchable Raul Ibanez and his $4.5 million salary is no longer within their budget and they trade him to the Cubs for a couple of low-priced prospects.

 

Rather than panicking and signing Jock Jones or Preston Wilson now, the Cubs end up with a guy who has a career .800 OBS.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Patience is a virtue. Hendry’s last off-season was bad however I wouldn’t completely lose faith in him just yet. If he doesn’t turn things around by next Oct then Cubs should look for a new GM.

[JeffH]

Hoops, my guess is that he really doesn't want to trade either one.

 

I imagine that he looks at the rotation with next year in mind. Maddux is probably gone. Who knows about Wood? Rusch may prove to be terrible rather than just mediocre. I doubt that he wants to put himself in the position of having to sign two $21-$27/3 Esteban Loaiza-Matt Morris type mediocrities.

 

I imagine that he's trying to fill RF using nothing more than Patterson, Walker, Wellemeyer, and minor leaguers as bait. If that's the case, I wish him luck.

 

If he can't do it and he winds up signing Preston Wilson as a bridge to Pie, I just hope he wises up and keeps Walker. I'm no big Todd Walker fan, but we'll need his bat in such a case.

[The Voice of Reason]

Patience is a virtue. Hendry’s last off-season was bad however I wouldn’t completely lose faith in him just yet. If he doesn’t turn things around by next Oct then Cubs should look for a new GM.

 

I heard they are already talking to Jocketty. :wink:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That may or may not be true. Humor my optimism for a second.

 

Let's say the Mariners who need pitching overspend on Millwood. Then having just signed Everett, they decide previously untouchable Raul Ibanez and his $4.5 million salary is no longer within their budget and they trade him to the Cubs for a couple of low-priced prospects.

 

Rather than panicking and signing Jock Jones or Preston Wilson now, the Cubs end up with a guy who has a career .800 OBS.

 

I hardly call hoping for Ibanez and his 801 OPS to become available is optimism. Wilson's is 811 (wouldn't cost any prospects) and Burnitz's is 833 (also wouldn't have cost prospects). Jones is a little lower, but he's also 3 years younger.

[The Voice of Reason]

That may or may not be true. Humor my optimism for a second.

 

Let's say the Mariners who need pitching overspend on Millwood. Then having just signed Everett, they decide previously untouchable Raul Ibanez and his $4.5 million salary is no longer within their budget and they trade him to the Cubs for a couple of low-priced prospects.

 

Rather than panicking and signing Jock Jones or Preston Wilson now, the Cubs end up with a guy who has a career .800 OBS.

 

I hardly call hoping for Ibanez and his 801 OPS to become available is optimism. Wilson's is 811 (wouldn't cost any prospects) and Burnitz's is 833 (also wouldn't have cost prospects). Jones is a little lower, but he's also 3 years younger.[/quote]

 

Meant to be a hypothetical example. Although I'm more interested in Ibanez than a guy who made $12 million last year (Wilson), is washed up (Burnitz) or is Jock Jones.

[Backtobanks]

I started this thread about being patient, but I must admit I might completely run out of patience if Kenny Williams pulls off the Tejeda deal that is rumored.

[HoopsCubs]

I started this thread about being patient, but I must admit I might completely run out of patience if Kenny Williams pulls off the Tejeda deal that is rumored.

 

Any new news on that rumor? Last I heard, the names of Garland/Contreras, Uribe, Cotts and a prospect wer ebeing thrown around.

[CubfaninCA]

A little perspective.

 

Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th.

 

Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time.

 

If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.

 

Uh oh. Some objectivity.

[goonys evil twin]

A little perspective.

 

Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th.

 

Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time.

 

If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.

 

Uh oh. Some objectivity.

 

Can you seriously stop with this stuff? You act as if nobody here speaks with any sort of objectivity, and everybody is making a big deal out of nothing, speaking only from passion and with hyperbole. Do you honestly think the Cubs aren't in a bit of a sticky wicket? Do you really think everything is perfectly fine with this team right now?

[Andy]

Preston Wilson has expressed interest in the Cubs...

 

If the Cubs exhaust their search for a left-handed hitter, they could sign Washington free agent Preston Wilson to a one-year deal. Wilson's agent has informed the Cubs they're his top choice and that he would love to play for Dusty Baker. But the sides haven't spoken since before the winter meetings, and Wilson remains a secondary option.

-- Chicago Tribune

 

I wonder if he could be had for 5-6M. If we can pull that off then we might as well bring him in unless Philly stops thinking they can get a Prior or a Santana for Abreu.

[Backtobanks]

I started this thread about being patient, but I must admit I might completely run out of patience if Kenny Williams pulls off the Tejeda deal that is rumored.

 

Any new news on that rumor? Last I heard, the names of Garland/Contreras, Uribe, Cotts and a prospect wer ebeing thrown around.

 

I haven't heard any more on the rumor, but if it's Garland, Uribe, Cotts, and another prospect, the Sox had better win the WS because their future would be down the tubes.

[goonys evil twin]

Preston Wilson has expressed interest in the Cubs...

 

If the Cubs exhaust their search for a left-handed hitter, they could sign Washington free agent Preston Wilson to a one-year deal. Wilson's agent has informed the Cubs they're his top choice and that he would love to play for Dusty Baker. But the sides haven't spoken since before the winter meetings, and Wilson remains a secondary option.

-- Chicago Tribune

 

I wonder if he could be had for 5-6M. If we can pull that off then we might as well bring him in unless Philly stops thinking they can get a Prior or a Santana for Abreu.

 

FYI this has been discussed a lot already.

viewtopic.php?t=27632

 

Why sign him? He's as crappy as all the other crappy options. I wonder what makes you think they "might as well sign Wilson" if the Abreu thing falls through. Take the Cubs lineup as is, and add Wilson to it. What do you have? About five different 6, 7 or 8 hitters. Wilson would end up 5th in that lineup, where he does not belong. Leadoff is already well off the "ideal" level. Only Lee and Ramirez in the 3 4 spots are good for their spots. Walker could be a good 2nd hitter, if he's still here. If not, then you got Neifi in there everyday. Murton and Cedeno can't be counted on to pick up the slack. That is too many questionable bats to hide, and not enough guaranteed production to make up for all the question marks.

[JeffH]

Do you honestly think the Cubs aren't in a bit of a sticky wicket? Do you really think everything is perfectly fine with this team right now?

 

The Cubs need a RF - preferably LHH - who can be counted on to post an OPS in the low .800s. Said OPS should preferably not be too heavily based on SLG.

 

The Cubs need a quality 4th OF.

 

The Cubs need their leadership not to ship off Todd Walker in favor of Jerry Hairston and/or Neifi Perez.

 

The Cubs need some good luck with Kerry Wood.

 

The Cubs could use another starting pitcher but aren't really in desperate straits there.

 

Is that a sticky wicket on December 15th? That's for each individual to decide.

[CubfaninCA]

A little perspective.

 

Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th.

 

Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time.

 

If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.

 

Uh oh. Some objectivity.

 

Can you seriously stop with this stuff? You act as if nobody here speaks with any sort of objectivity, and everybody is making a big deal out of nothing, speaking only from passion and with hyperbole. Do you honestly think the Cubs aren't in a bit of a sticky wicket? Do you really think everything is perfectly fine with this team right now?

 

Attack the argument, not me. Voice made a very reasonable series of posts, which are far superior than "does hendry know that we have no rf?"

[goonys evil twin]

I haven't heard any more on the rumor, but if it's Garland, Uribe, Cotts, and another prospect, the Sox had better win the WS because their future would be down the tubes.

 

If you consider their future to also include the financial side of things, then they should do all they can to build on the momentum of building a fan base. Growing the loyal season ticket holder base, and making a mark in the ratings over the next 2-3 years is far more important than a couple prospects will be in 3-4 years. Garland is in the perfect sell high situation. His reputation is based on that record more so than how well he actually pitched. I don't see them missing Garland at all next year. Uribe is obviously replacable. And while Cotts and a prospect have value, Tejada is the type of value you go for. Their window would be much more than just next year.

[goonys evil twin]

Attack the argument, not me. Voice made a very reasonable series of posts, which are far superior than "does hendry know that we have no rf?"

 

I attacked your annoying habit of insulting everybody on this board who happens to think the Cubs situation isn't all peachy right now. If you took personal offense then maybe you should think about it. If you think everything is just fine and dandy, good for you. But other people think there are bad clouds hanging over the 2006 Cubs right now, and not enough is being done to clear them. Your continued insistence to rag on the discussions people have about those problems is quite unfair, and unnecessary, and completely against the point of having a message board. This is here for people to discuss the Cubs. And they have the right to discuss them in whichever way they want without somebody pretending they are all a bunch of whiny complainers with no reasonable opinions.

[CubfaninCA]

Attack the argument, not me. Voice made a very reasonable series of posts, which are far superior than "does hendry know that we have no rf?"

 

I attacked your annoying habit of insulting everybody on this board who happens to think the Cubs situation isn't all peachy right now. If you took personal offense then maybe you should think about it. If you think everything is just fine and dandy, good for you. But other people think there are bad clouds hanging over the 2006 Cubs right now, and not enough is being done to clear them. Your continued insistence to rag on the discussions people have about those problems is quite unfair, and unnecessary, and completely against the point of having a message board. This is here for people to discuss the Cubs. And they have the right to discuss them in whichever way they want without somebody pretending they are all a bunch of whiny complainers with no reasonable opinions.

 

I took no offence. I like your fire.

 

Sorry, but I think some of the potshots @ the organization are absurd. Hendry's not [expletive]. He's knows there's holes.

[YearofDaCubs]

Attack the argument, not me. Voice made a very reasonable series of posts, which are far superior than "does hendry know that we have no rf?"

 

I attacked your annoying habit of insulting everybody on this board who happens to think the Cubs situation isn't all peachy right now. If you took personal offense then maybe you should think about it. If you think everything is just fine and dandy, good for you. But other people think there are bad clouds hanging over the 2006 Cubs right now, and not enough is being done to clear them. Your continued insistence to rag on the discussions people have about those problems is quite unfair, and unnecessary, and completely against the point of having a message board. This is here for people to discuss the Cubs. And they have the right to discuss them in whichever way they want without somebody pretending they are all a bunch of whiny complainers with no reasonable opinions.

 

I took no offence. I like your fire.

 

Sorry, but I think some of the potshots @ the organization are absurd. Hendry's not [expletive]. He's knows there's holes.

He sure does know that there are holes. The problem is can he patch them up?

[CubfaninCA]

Attack the argument, not me. Voice made a very reasonable series of posts, which are far superior than "does hendry know that we have no rf?"

 

I attacked your annoying habit of insulting everybody on this board who happens to think the Cubs situation isn't all peachy right now. If you took personal offense then maybe you should think about it. If you think everything is just fine and dandy, good for you. But other people think there are bad clouds hanging over the 2006 Cubs right now, and not enough is being done to clear them. Your continued insistence to rag on the discussions people have about those problems is quite unfair, and unnecessary, and completely against the point of having a message board. This is here for people to discuss the Cubs. And they have the right to discuss them in whichever way they want without somebody pretending they are all a bunch of whiny complainers with no reasonable opinions.

 

I took no offence. I like your fire.

 

Sorry, but I think some of the potshots @ the organization are absurd. Hendry's not [expletive]. He's knows there's holes.

He sure does know that there are holes. The problem is can he patch them up?

 

Fair enough.

[USSoccer]

Knowing you have a weakness is one thing. Properly addressing it is quite another.

 

I don't have a lot of faith that Hendry can properly and effectively address the RF hole to the point where we don't need *everything* to break our way in order to contend.

 

But we'll see.

[Soul]

Why don't we just bring up Pie and throw him to the fire? Is he really that far away from being "ready?" Maybe a better question is, if we're going to field a junk RF'er anyway then what's the difference? Can you really "ruin" a good prospect by playing him young?

 

Yeah, I know.....CPatt. But who can say: maybe he was always going to stink no matter how much grooming he got.

[ThePenguin11]

Why don't we just bring up Pie and throw him to the fire? Is he really that far away from being "ready?" Maybe a better question is, if we're going to field a junk RF'er anyway then what's the difference? Can you really "ruin" a good prospect by playing him young?

 

Yeah, I know.....CPatt. But who can say: maybe he was always going to stink no matter how much grooming he got.

 

Is there a site where we can track all of the Winter league statistics?

[USSoccer]

Why don't we just bring up Pie and throw him to the fire? Is he really that far away from being "ready?" Maybe a better question is, if we're going to field a junk RF'er anyway then what's the difference? Can you really "ruin" a good prospect by playing him young?

 

Yeah, I know.....CPatt. But who can say: maybe he was always going to stink no matter how much grooming he got.

 

Pie isn't ready. He's got great raw ability, but he's going to make Corey look like an OBP machine if we throw him into the fire too soon.

[USSoccer]

Oakland Has Too Many OF's. Do We Want Any Of Them?

 

Jay Payton, Mark Kotsay, Nick Swisher, Bobby Kielty and Milton Bradley all get to compete for playing time. Odds are that one of them is gong to get moved. So here are some possible deals:

 

#1-Walker for Kotsay

 

We take on about $6m in extra salary for a good value CF who likely plays RF for us in this scenario. He's left handed, and could fill a middle of the order batting slot.

 

His last 3 seasons:

 

.266 .343 .384 .727

.314 .370 .459 .829

.280 .325 .421 .746

 

Not bad. However, one minor problem: He's expensive relative for his production, and he has a full NTC through 2006. He's signed through 2008, so it's hard to imagine him accepting a trade here unless we redo his deal, or something.

 

#2-Walker for Payton.

 

Last 3 seasons:

 

.260 .326 .367 .693

.263 .313 .429 .742

.269 .302 .451 .753 .

 

He'es not super expensive, but he's not really a starter either. It's hard to see how that makes us better.

 

#3-Someone for Milton Bradley.

 

Bradley's merits and drawbacks have been debated ad infinitum here, but this seems unlikely only because Beane gave up a really nice prospect for Bradley and Antonio Perez, and therefore it wouldn't make sense for BEane to flip an undervalued player in Bradley for something we have. Walker for Bradley? Maybe, but then again why wouldn't Beane just have traded for Walker directly?

 

Given the three choices, I suppose I would accept trading for Payton the most, if he were a 4th OF backing up the left handed RF we aquire elsewhere, and spot starting for Murton when necessary. Kotsay would have been a nice CF option last season, but it's hard to see where he'd fit in in 2006.

 

Thoughts?