Mazzone......and his critic

[minnesotacubsfan]

I was recently talking to my brother-in-law who happens to have abit of insight into the world of LEo Mazzone. It wasnt what I expected. We are both huge baseball fans, and when I mentioned the idea of a great pitching coach being Leo, he responded with "there are those who dont think much of him at all..."

 

 

I am not sure of my brother-in-laws connection wtih him, but he has conversations with Russ Ortiz from time to time. My b-i-l at one time coached high school baseball in S. Cali, and knows several current coaches there. what he was saying was something to the effect that Ortiz never cared for Mazzone, and felt he was vastly over-rated as far as a pitching caoch is concerned....

 

 

has anyone else every heard of this rift?

[stitchface]

there have been a few others as well.

[B]

My friend is a huge Braves fan, and he told me that a while back. He said several of the Braves pitchers didn't feel he was responsible for their success.

[minnesotacubsfan]

there have been a few others as well.

 

like who?

 

what I hear, mostly, is how wonderful Leo is...my b-i-l kinda stunned me with his response....

[Jehrico]

It doesn't matter how good you are, you'll always have your detractors. Sammy had his during his best 4-5 years. Jordan had them when he was winning championships. Bonds has always had them. I wouldn't put too much weight into the fact that some people may not think that much of him. I'd actually kind of expect it.

[imb]

that may be the first time russ ortiz and overrated have been in the same sentence without it being "russ ortiz is overrated".

[stitchface]

The guy who went to st. louis - was it marquis? There was a neyer article on the subject last year sometime.

[abuck1220]

that may be the first time russ ortiz and overrated have been in the same sentence without it being "russ ortiz is overrated".

 

yeah, ortiz should know something about what it's like to be overrated.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Hrm, I'd rather have Mazzone and not have Ortiz or Marquis.

[daske17]

Kevin Millwood also has had some negative things to say about Mazzone.

[CuseCubFan69]

No coach or manager has everyone on the same page year after year. Some players don't see eye to eye with a coach for some reason and they just don't click well together. It's Leo's job to keep working hard and doing what he has been doing to help make his pitchers as successful as possible. Edited December 12, 2005 by CuseCubFan69

[CubinNY]

Kevin Millwood also has had some negative things to say about Mazzone.

 

That maybe because Leo doesn't pull any punches with them on the mound.

 

A coach isn't there to be a buddy, confidant, babysitter, or an appologist. He/she is there to help the player reach his/her potential.

 

No one can argue with Mazzone's success. I'll take him as my pitching coach any day.

[Derwood]

A coach isn't there to be a buddy, confidant, babysitter, or an appologist. He/she is there to help the player reach his/her potential.

 

Dusty missed that memo

[nilodnayr]

I think there are two main reasons for pitchers to give mazzone a bad wrap. First of all, mazzone's biggest strength is pitch selection. He gets the most out of his pitchers by focusing them on certain pitches and having them use those pitches in the correct situations. In essence, he calls a great game. Basically think of how dusty uses his players and then think the opposite. Pitchers have egos and don't like being told to scap a pitch that they want to develope or throw a curve in this situation, when they want to throw a splitter, etc. Secondly, to expand on the ego part, pitchers want THEMSELVES to be the reason they are good. They don't want to attribute their success only to mazzone. I'm sure there are some legitimate reasons why a pitcher might not like mazzone, but the numbers don't lie, he makes pitchers better.

[AR-Baseball-Fan]

The guy who went to st. louis - was it marquis? There was a neyer article on the subject last year sometime.

 

I don't think that Marquis would listen to any pitching coach.

[TenzilKem]

Kevin Millwood also has had some negative things to say about Mazzone.

 

That maybe because Leo doesn't pull any punches with them on the mound.

 

A coach isn't there to be a buddy, confidant, babysitter, or an appologist. He/she is there to help the player reach his/her potential.

 

No one can argue with Mazzone's success. I'll take him as my pitching coach any day.

 

If a coach has the same approach to all players, players will respond differently to that approach.

 

I remember when Billy Connors was the Cubs pitching coach and he went to the mound to visit Steve Trout, he always looked like he was reassuring Trout, trying to get him to relax a bit and focus. But when Mike Bielecki was pitching, Connors always looked like he was reading him the riot act. Both pitchers had some of the best years of their careers under Connors.

 

Sparky Anderson once said something to the effect that on any given team, a third of the guys needed a pat on the back, another third needed a kick in the ass, and the final third needed to be left alone to do their job. The key to managing was knowing who was in each group.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I think there are two main reasons for pitchers to give mazzone a bad wrap. First of all, mazzone's biggest strength is pitch selection. He gets the most out of his pitchers by focusing them on certain pitches and having them use those pitches in the correct situations. In essence, he calls a great game. Basically think of how dusty uses his players and then think the opposite. Pitchers have egos and don't like being told to scap a pitch that they want to develope or throw a curve in this situation, when they want to throw a splitter, etc. Secondly, to expand on the ego part, pitchers want THEMSELVES to be the reason they are good. They don't want to attribute their success only to mazzone. I'm sure there are some legitimate reasons why a pitcher might not like mazzone, but the numbers don't lie, he makes pitchers better.

 

this is what I think I was thinking when my b-i-l was telling me this...I couldnt quite put it into words, or to this detail

 

 

interesting........