Todd Walker......for the record

[rawaction]

Walker is not that patient. It's a common misconception. In 04, he had a BB/PA over .100, but in 05 he was at .072, that's barely over what Patterson did in 04. In 02 and 03 he was only at .075 and .074 respectively. If he hit his career average of .290 last year, his OBP would have been under .340. Career he's at .081.

 

FYI, .100 is the standard for good patience as a hitter. .081 is definitely acceptable, but he's not in Derrek Lee's class.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

i blame it on Dusty "walks are crap" Baker. :lol:

 

seriously, that's interesting. :-k

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

[erik316wttn]

I still want him here hitting 2nd for the Cubs in 2006.

[rawaction]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

 

87 players had an ISOD over .100 (with at least 200 PAs) in 05. That's a pretty decent sized group. 167 players were at (or above) Walker's career average of .081. 207 people with over 200 PAs had a higher BB/PA than Walker.

 

I like Walker as much as anyone and want him on this team badly next year, but he's not the great leadoff hitter we all think he is. Especially, when he's as like to post a .330's OBP as he is one in the .350's.

[CubinNY]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

 

87 players had an ISOD over .100 (with at least 200 PAs) in 05. That's a pretty decent sized group. 167 players were at (or above) Walker's career average of .081. 207 people with over 200 PAs had a higher BB/PA than Walker.

 

I like Walker as much as anyone and want him on this team badly next year, but he's not the great leadoff hitter we all think he is. Especially, when he's as like to post a .330's OBP as he is one in the .350's.

 

Was Juan Pierre among them?

[wastra]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

 

87 players had an ISOD over .100 (with at least 200 PAs) in 05. That's a pretty decent sized group. 167 players were at (or above) Walker's career average of .081. 207 people with over 200 PAs had a higher BB/PA than Walker.

 

I like Walker as much as anyone and want him on this team badly next year, but he's not the great leadoff hitter we all think he is. Especially, when he's as like to post a .330's OBP as he is one in the .350's.

 

I'd be interested to see these stats adjusted for when he hits 1st or 2nd. I know he's said many times that when hitting in the top two spots, he takes a different approach at the plate. I'd like to see if that plays out in the numbers.

[johnnyba99]

This discussion along with the threads on Juan Pierre has me thinking of one question I'd like to ask. A lot of posters here have this idea of a perfect leadoff hitter, that takes tons of pitches, has a SB% over 85%, and has an OBP of .400, among other qualities, does this player really exist? And how many of them are there?

 

Not criticizing, I learn a great deal from all the different stats you guys post and love the discussions about them. Just curious if the goal of the ideal leadoff hitter is actually obtainable. Thanks.

[Andy]

I still want him here hitting 2nd for the Cubs in 2006.

Agreed. He's a better 2-hole hitter than anyone else we have.

[MPrior]

IsoD for some key players on our team:

 

DLee: .083

ARam: .056

Barrett: .069

Murton: .065

Neifi (ugh): .024

Corey: .039 - and I'd like to point out that even this is artificially inflated because no one was throwing him anything anywhere near the strike zone, cause they knew he'd swing at it.

 

Walker: .050.

 

So yes, Walker was a little down from his career norms this past year, but certainly not that bad, especially in the context of this team. Secondly, he's fairly consistent. Since his first full season, he's had the following OBP each year:

 

.372

.343

.355

.361

.349

.353

.333

.352

.355

 

Other than 2003 (the .333 year), he's been remarkably consistent, even though his OBP is somewhat reliant upon his average. I'd take him.

[goonys evil twin]

This discussion along with the threads on Juan Pierre has me thinking of one question I'd like to ask. A lot of posters here have this idea of a perfect leadoff hitter, that takes tons of pitches, has a SB% over 85%, and has an OBP of .400, among other qualities, does this player really exist? And how many of them are there?

 

Not criticizing, I learn a great deal from all the different stats you guys post and love the discussions about them. Just curious if the goal of the ideal leadoff hitter is actually obtainable. Thanks.

 

No this person doesn't exist. Hendry and Baker have both admitted that "true" leadoff hitters just don't exist anymore. Yet, they still decided to overemphasize the need to get a stereotypical one instead of just getting the best hitters they can find.

[rocket]

This discussion along with the threads on Juan Pierre has me thinking of one question I'd like to ask. A lot of posters here have this idea of a perfect leadoff hitter, that takes tons of pitches, has a SB% over 85%, and has an OBP of .400, among other qualities, does this player really exist? And how many of them are there?

 

Not criticizing, I learn a great deal from all the different stats you guys post and love the discussions about them. Just curious if the goal of the ideal leadoff hitter is actually obtainable. Thanks.

 

The perfect leadoff hitter.

[MPrior]

This discussion along with the threads on Juan Pierre has me thinking of one question I'd like to ask. A lot of posters here have this idea of a perfect leadoff hitter, that takes tons of pitches, has a SB% over 85%, and has an OBP of .400, among other qualities, does this player really exist? And how many of them are there?

 

Not criticizing, I learn a great deal from all the different stats you guys post and love the discussions about them. Just curious if the goal of the ideal leadoff hitter is actually obtainable. Thanks.

 

I'm pretty sure no one here demands a perfect leadoff hitter with all of the stats you just mentioned. In fact, I think several of us are skeptical of the value of even looking for someone who will be your "leadoff hitter." What I'd rather do, and I know some people here feel the same way, is find good players to field each position, and then organize your lineup once you've got that.

 

As far as evaluating a leadoff hitter, I'd like someone who can consistently get on base at a .350 or better clip, and who doesn't get caught stealing very often. Whether this means having a very good steal % or just not trying to steal very often is irrelevant to me. Ideally, I'd also like them to hit the occasional double or triple.

[johnnyba99]

The perfect leadoff hitter.

 

:D too bad he's 44.

[rocket]

The perfect leadoff hitter.

 

:D too bad he's 44.

 

...and available!

[burnt out cubbie fan]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

 

87 players had an ISOD over .100 (with at least 200 PAs) in 05. That's a pretty decent sized group. 167 players were at (or above) Walker's career average of .081. 207 people with over 200 PAs had a higher BB/PA than Walker.

 

I like Walker as much as anyone and want him on this team badly next year, but he's not the great leadoff hitter we all think he is. Especially, when he's as like to post a .330's OBP as he is one in the .350's.

 

Was Juan Pierre among them?

I didn't look at his stats but I am almost positive that he wasn't. Pierre has a pretty bad walk rate.

[Mizzou]

The perfect leadoff hitter.

 

:D too bad he's 44.

 

...and available!

 

Rickey Henderson announced the other day that Rickey Henderson was retiring.

[Andy]

The perfect leadoff hitter.

 

:D too bad he's 44.

 

...and available!

He was born in Chicago! Welcome home, Rickey. :wink:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

 

87 players had an ISOD over .100 (with at least 200 PAs) in 05. That's a pretty decent sized group. 167 players were at (or above) Walker's career average of .081. 207 people with over 200 PAs had a higher BB/PA than Walker.

 

I like Walker as much as anyone and want him on this team badly next year, but he's not the great leadoff hitter we all think he is. Especially, when he's as like to post a .330's OBP as he is one in the .350's.

 

Where did you find the IsoD numbers? I'd be interested to see how many of those 87 qualified, or were close to it.

 

Walker's posted an OBP under .342 once in his career(twice if you include his 156 ABs in '97), and he's been over .350 6 of his 8 seasons(9 if you include '97). He's done it by hitting for a high average(2005 for example), and by hitting for a lower average and walking more(2004). I think he's as good a bet as anyone to put up a .350 OBP, and he's much more likely to do that than .330.

[rawaction]

How many players have a .100+ IsoD? That's almost like saying that .400 is the standard of good OBP.

 

87 players had an ISOD over .100 (with at least 200 PAs) in 05. That's a pretty decent sized group. 167 players were at (or above) Walker's career average of .081. 207 people with over 200 PAs had a higher BB/PA than Walker.

 

I like Walker as much as anyone and want him on this team badly next year, but he's not the great leadoff hitter we all think he is. Especially, when he's as like to post a .330's OBP as he is one in the .350's.

 

Where did you find the IsoD numbers? I'd be interested to see how many of those 87 qualified, or were close to it.

 

Walker's posted an OBP under .342 once in his career(twice if you include his 156 ABs in '97), and he's been over .350 6 of his 8 seasons(9 if you include '97). He's done it by hitting for a high average(2005 for example), and by hitting for a lower average and walking more(2004). I think he's as good a bet as anyone to put up a .350 OBP, and he's much more likely to do that than .330.

 

47 qualified players were over .100 BB/PA. 81 over .081. Walker did not qualify with enough ABs.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I'd be interested to see these stats adjusted for when he hits 1st or 2nd. I know he's said many times that when hitting in the top two spots, he takes a different approach at the plate. I'd like to see if that plays out in the numbers.

 

Walker             AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
batting 1st         2    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000
batting 2nd       254   36   76   14    1    9  119   29   20   23  0.299  0.351  0.469  0.820
batting 3rd         9    3    4    1    0    0    5    1    1    0  0.444  0.500  0.556  1.056
batting 5th        17    1    4    1    0    0    5    1    2    2  0.235  0.316  0.294  0.610
batting 6th       100    9   33    9    2    0   46    7    8   12  0.330  0.376  0.460  0.836
batting 7th         4    0    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    1  0.250  0.250  0.250  0.500
batting 8th         2    0    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    1  0.500  0.500  0.500  1.000
batting 9th         9    1    2    0    0    1    5    3    0    1  0.222  0.222  0.556  0.778

totals            397   50  121   25    3   10  182   41   31   40  0.305  0.355  0.458  0.813