Re: Roberts: OH mini update (p.183); Happy 200!! (p.200)

DeuceBaseman · February 19, 2008

I know a lot about the game of baseball. I was a .500 hitter in HS so I did have the skill but I think my mental makeup of the game was a lot stronger than my physical part, and thats why I'm coaching.

I led my team in SB's every year and I was one of the slowest on the team. I also would get 10 guys out a year on backdoor plays when they would hit a single to the OF and I'd be the cut off man and throw to 1st and get them out as they're rounding the base not expecting a throw.

But my big coaching belief is sliding into 1st base. When players run to 1st base, a lot of being safe has to do with mental stuff. You see players lunge for the bag, or stutter step before they get there, this slows them down. So when I was in college, (At the horrible U of I), I did a series of tests. I was on the baseball team so I figured my project should be on something with baseball. And I always thought that sliding into 1st was faster than running through the bag. So I decided to test it. I had 10 people. Each with different baseball experience. Some played college ball, some have never played in their life. They each ran 5 trials. Running through the bag, Sliding feet first, and sliding head first. After all the trials it showed up that sliding feet first was fastest by almost half a second, then sliding head first, then running through the bag. This could have a lot to do with people stutter stepping or lunging for first. But I believe that if you sprint towards first with the intention of sliding feet first, you have a better chance of being safe than running through the bag. Plus you never have to think whether to slide or not on a bad throw, and you can pop right up on a wild throw and run to 2nd. AND no more sprained ankles from landing on the bag the wrong way.

People thought I was crazy when I told them about this. Until I showed them the test results, and I actually started doing it in games and I beat out a lot of infield singles. You just gotta make sure the ump knows your sliding so that he isnt surprised and call you out just for sliding. Let the discussion begin!

Edited February 19, 2008 by DeuceBaseman

Magnetic Curses · February 19, 2008

I know a lot about the game of baseball. I was a .500 hitter in HS so I did have the skill but I think my mental makeup of the game was a lot stronger than my physical part, and thats why I'm coaching. I led my team in SB's every year and I was one of the slowest on the team. I also would get 10 guys out a year on backdoor plays when they would hit a single to the OF and I'd be the cut off man and throw to 1st and get them out as they're rounding the base not expecting a throw. But my big coaching belief is sliding into 1st base. When players run to 1st base, a lot of being safe has to do with mental stuff. You see players lunge for the bag, or stutter step before they get there, this slows them down. So when I was in college, (At the horrible U of I), I did a series of tests. I was on the baseball team so I figured my project should be on something with baseball. And I always thought that sliding into 1st was faster than running through the bag. So I decided to test it. I had 10 people. Each with different baseball experience. Some played college ball, some have never played in their life. They each ran 5 trials. Running through the bag, Sliding feet first, and sliding head first. After all the trials it showed up that sliding feet first was fastest by almost half a second, then sliding head first, then running through the bag. This could have a lot to do with people stutter stepping or lunging for first. But I believe that if you sprint towards first with the intention of sliding feet first, you have a better chance of being safe than running through the bag. Plus you never have to think whether to slide or not on a bad throw, and you can pop right up on a wild throw and run to 2nd. AND no more sprained ankles from landing on the bag the wrong way. People thought I was crazy when I told them about this. Until I showed them the test results, and I actually started doing it in games and I beat out a lot of infield singles. You just gotta make sure the ump knows your sliding so that he isnt surprised and call you out just for sliding. Let the discussion begin!

i'll read this post if you insert some paragraph breaks into it.

i'm not trying to be a jerk, here.

Magnetic Curses · February 19, 2008

I know a lot about the game of baseball. I was a .500 hitter in HS so I did have the skill but I think my mental makeup of the game was a lot stronger than my physical part, and thats why I'm coaching.

I led my team in SB's every year and I was one of the slowest on the team. I also would get 10 guys out a year on backdoor plays when they would hit a single to the OF and I'd be the cut off man and throw to 1st and get them out as they're rounding the base not expecting a throw.

But my big coaching belief is sliding into 1st base. When players run to 1st base, a lot of being safe has to do with mental stuff. You see players lunge for the bag, or stutter step before they get there, this slows them down. So when I was in college, (At the horrible U of I), I did a series of tests. I was on the baseball team so I figured my project should be on something with baseball. And I always thought that sliding into 1st was faster than running through the bag. So I decided to test it. I had 10 people. Each with different baseball experience. Some played college ball, some have never played in their life. They each ran 5 trials. Running through the bag, Sliding feet first, and sliding head first. After all the trials it showed up that sliding feet first was fastest by almost half a second, then sliding head first, then running through the bag. This could have a lot to do with people stutter stepping or lunging for first. But I believe that if you sprint towards first with the intention of sliding feet first, you have a better chance of being safe than running through the bag. Plus you never have to think whether to slide or not on a bad throw, and you can pop right up on a wild throw and run to 2nd. AND no more sprained ankles from landing on the bag the wrong way.

People thought I was crazy when I told them about this. Until I showed them the test results, and I actually started doing it in games and I beat out a lot of infield singles. You just gotta make sure the ump knows your sliding so that he isnt surprised and call you out just for sliding. Let the discussion begin!

okay, fair enough. good insight, this is thinking outside of the box when it comes to conventional wisdom. many coaches don't realize that in many cases, they're so inundated with conventional logic, that they'd believe down is up and up is down if the situation dictated--hence, the sacrifice bunt.

Derwood · February 19, 2008

I know a lot about the game of baseball. I was a .500 hitter in HS so I did have the skill but I think my mental makeup of the game was a lot stronger than my physical part, and thats why I'm coaching.

I led my team in SB's every year and I was one of the slowest on the team. I also would get 10 guys out a year on backdoor plays when they would hit a single to the OF and I'd be the cut off man and throw to 1st and get them out as they're rounding the base not expecting a throw.

But my big coaching belief is sliding into 1st base. When players run to 1st base, a lot of being safe has to do with mental stuff. You see players lunge for the bag, or stutter step before they get there, this slows them down. So when I was in college, (At the horrible U of I), I did a series of tests. I was on the baseball team so I figured my project should be on something with baseball. And I always thought that sliding into 1st was faster than running through the bag. So I decided to test it. I had 10 people. Each with different baseball experience. Some played college ball, some have never played in their life. They each ran 5 trials. Running through the bag, Sliding feet first, and sliding head first. After all the trials it showed up that sliding feet first was fastest by almost half a second, then sliding head first, then running through the bag. This could have a lot to do with people stutter stepping or lunging for first. But I believe that if you sprint towards first with the intention of sliding feet first, you have a better chance of being safe than running through the bag. Plus you never have to think whether to slide or not on a bad throw, and you can pop right up on a wild throw and run to 2nd. AND no more sprained ankles from landing on the bag the wrong way.

People thought I was crazy when I told them about this. Until I showed them the test results, and I actually started doing it in games and I beat out a lot of infield singles. You just gotta make sure the ump knows your sliding so that he isnt surprised and call you out just for sliding. Let the discussion begin!

why don't olympic sprinters slide through the finish tape then?

DeuceBaseman · February 19, 2008

I know a lot about the game of baseball. I was a .500 hitter in HS so I did have the skill but I think my mental makeup of the game was a lot stronger than my physical part, and thats why I'm coaching.

I led my team in SB's every year and I was one of the slowest on the team. I also would get 10 guys out a year on backdoor plays when they would hit a single to the OF and I'd be the cut off man and throw to 1st and get them out as they're rounding the base not expecting a throw.

But my big coaching belief is sliding into 1st base. When players run to 1st base, a lot of being safe has to do with mental stuff. You see players lunge for the bag, or stutter step before they get there, this slows them down. So when I was in college, (At the horrible U of I), I did a series of tests. I was on the baseball team so I figured my project should be on something with baseball. And I always thought that sliding into 1st was faster than running through the bag. So I decided to test it. I had 10 people. Each with different baseball experience. Some played college ball, some have never played in their life. They each ran 5 trials. Running through the bag, Sliding feet first, and sliding head first. After all the trials it showed up that sliding feet first was fastest by almost half a second, then sliding head first, then running through the bag. This could have a lot to do with people stutter stepping or lunging for first. But I believe that if you sprint towards first with the intention of sliding feet first, you have a better chance of being safe than running through the bag. Plus you never have to think whether to slide or not on a bad throw, and you can pop right up on a wild throw and run to 2nd. AND no more sprained ankles from landing on the bag the wrong way.

People thought I was crazy when I told them about this. Until I showed them the test results, and I actually started doing it in games and I beat out a lot of infield singles. You just gotta make sure the ump knows your sliding so that he isnt surprised and call you out just for sliding. Let the discussion begin!

why don't olympic sprinters slide through the finish tape then?

Cuz that would hurt, baseball dirt is a little different than a track so you can actually advance in distance when you slide in dirt, and track runners lean their heads forward so their heads cross, just like baseball players would lead with their feet to touch the bag. Plus like I mentioned it could be mental. Baseball players dont always run through the bag at the same speed, they tend to slow down at the end.

mul21 · February 19, 2008

why don't olympic sprinters slide through the finish tape then?

Mostly because they like their skin to stay on their bodies. Honestly, of all the garbage he has spewed out, this is probably the most likely thing to have some relevance/truth to it.

Magnetic Curses · February 19, 2008

why don't olympic sprinters slide through the finish tape then?

Mostly because they like their skin to stay on their bodies. Honestly, of all the garbage he has spewed out, this is probably the most likely thing to have some relevance/truth to it.

i'm impressed. it's never been a big issue for me, but it's an assumption that every single color man in the game will go off about if he sees it.

UMFan83 · February 19, 2008

Good God this thread sucks. People aren't even commenting on insiders posts anyone. They just ignore them and go on talking about the dumbest things ever.

Do I have permission to start a Brian Roberts thread that actually talks about Brian Roberts news and rumors?

Derwood · February 19, 2008

even if sliding into first was the fastest way to get there (of which i'm dubious), it's a bad idea for so many other reasons

Pushfrog98 · February 19, 2008

I still think I can run faster than I can slide... however, sometimes your steps aren't right on so you have to stutter-step or drag a foot to catch the bag... but even still, once your body hits the dirt, the friction slows you down immediately (at least I would think so.)

DeuceBaseman · February 19, 2008

even if sliding into first was the fastest way to get there (of which i'm dubious), it's a bad idea for so many other reasons

I thought about it a lot, and I couldn't come up with any reasons why it's a bad idea.

1) Dangerous? No, I think people sprain their ankles a lot more landing on the bag the wrong way. I've sprained my ankle 3 summers in a row hitting the bag at a wrong angle or landing on the 1B's foot.

2) If you run through the bag and the ball gets passed the 1B, you have to take such a wide angle to try and advance to 2nd. If you just slide and pop up, you can be on a direct line to 2nd.

3) If a throw pulls the 1B off the bag, then you're supposed to slide into 1st to avoid a tag. Yet we see it happen a million times where the guy doesn't slide and gets tagged out. If they are sliding the whole way then they don't even need to think about it.

I would like to hear some reasons why it's bad.

Derwood · February 19, 2008

even if sliding into first was the fastest way to get there (of which i'm dubious), it's a bad idea for so many other reasons

I thought about it a lot, and I couldn't come up with any reasons why it's a bad idea.

1) Dangerous? No, I think people sprain their ankles a lot more landing on the bag the wrong way. I've sprained my ankle 3 summers in a row hitting the bag at a wrong angle or landing on the 1B's foot.

2) If you run through the bag and the ball gets passed the 1B, you have to take such a wide angle to try and advance to 2nd. If you just slide and pop up, you can be on a direct line to 2nd.

3) If a throw pulls the 1B off the bag, then you're supposed to slide into 1st to avoid a tag. Yet we see it happen a million times where the guy doesn't slide and gets tagged out. If they are sliding the whole way then they don't even need to think about it.

I would like to hear some reasons why it's bad.

sliding is dangerous always, so there is inherent risk in it

if you slide and pop up, you are at a stand still and have to run from a stand still to advance a base. we see it happen all the time at 2nd and 3rd

third eye · February 19, 2008

even if sliding into first was the fastest way to get there (of which i'm dubious), it's a bad idea for so many other reasons

I thought about it a lot, and I couldn't come up with any reasons why it's a bad idea.

1) Dangerous? No, I think people sprain their ankles a lot more landing on the bag the wrong way. I've sprained my ankle 3 summers in a row hitting the bag at a wrong angle or landing on the 1B's foot.

2) If you run through the bag and the ball gets passed the 1B, you have to take such a wide angle to try and advance to 2nd. If you just slide and pop up, you can be on a direct line to 2nd.

3) If a throw pulls the 1B off the bag, then you're supposed to slide into 1st to avoid a tag. Yet we see it happen a million times where the guy doesn't slide and gets tagged out. If they are sliding the whole way then they don't even need to think about it.

I would like to hear some reasons why it's bad.

These are fair points. Avoiding DLee and Corey Patterson injuries should be an important consideration IMO, and a feet first slide in certain cases may not be a bad idea.

XZero771679666304 · February 19, 2008

I'm pretty sure there have been studies larger than 10 random people that have shown sliding into first base slows you down. Also, the potential for injury sliding feet first where the first baseman is holding the bag makes it much more dangerous than sliding into any other bag.

In an old thread on this subject I dug up numerous links that support the idea that sliding into first slows you down, but I am not going to dig them up again.

To me, it's common sense. Running through the first base bag will be faster than sliding, every time. The only time one should slide into first is if the first baseman has come off the bag, and is trying to apply a tag. A person may feel sliding is faster, but it simply isn't.

And yeah, it's more dangerous as well.

TheGrinch · February 19, 2008

I'm pretty sure there have been studies larger than 10 random people that have shown sliding into first base slows you down. Also, the potential for injury sliding feet first where the first baseman is holding the bag makes it much more dangerous than sliding into any other bag.

In an old thread on this subject I dug up numerous links that support the idea that sliding into first slows you down, but I am not going to dig them up again.

To me, it's common sense. Running through the first base bag will be faster than sliding, every time. The only time one should slide into first is if the first baseman has come off the bag, and is trying to apply a tag. A person may feel sliding is faster, but it simply isn't.

And yeah, it's more dangerous as well.

I guess the stipulation would have to be made that the purpose of the slide is not to slide before you hit the base and stop on it, but to time your dive just right so that you touch the base just as you hit the ground, so the whole "friction of the ground" thing isn't the point. The loss of speed you would have would be from not running optimally for a few steps, but that difference wouldn't be enough to offset not having to travel as far to touch the base. ...and the injury thing kinda makes the point moot, anyways.

XZero771679666304 · February 19, 2008

I'm pretty sure there have been studies larger than 10 random people that have shown sliding into first base slows you down. Also, the potential for injury sliding feet first where the first baseman is holding the bag makes it much more dangerous than sliding into any other bag.

In an old thread on this subject I dug up numerous links that support the idea that sliding into first slows you down, but I am not going to dig them up again.

To me, it's common sense. Running through the first base bag will be faster than sliding, every time. The only time one should slide into first is if the first baseman has come off the bag, and is trying to apply a tag. A person may feel sliding is faster, but it simply isn't.

And yeah, it's more dangerous as well.
I guess the stipulation would have to be made that the purpose of the slide is not to slide before you hit the base and stop on it, but to time your dive just right so that you touch the base just as you hit the ground, so the whole "friction of the ground" thing isn't the point. The loss of speed you would have would be from not running optimally for a few steps, but that difference wouldn't be enough to offset not having to travel as far to touch the base. ...and the injury thing kinda makes the point moot, anyways.

The problem is that diving doesn't decrease the distance to the bag, just the perception of it. Simply bending forward to position yourself for the dive will put you behind the runner who is running flat out and in stride. The instant you break out of the normal sprinting motion, you lose speed. It's 90 feet from home to first, no matter what configuration your body is in when you get there.

MarqPTM · February 19, 2008

I'm pretty sure there have been studies larger than 10 random people that have shown sliding into first base slows you down. Also, the potential for injury sliding feet first where the first baseman is holding the bag makes it much more dangerous than sliding into any other bag.

In an old thread on this subject I dug up numerous links that support the idea that sliding into first slows you down, but I am not going to dig them up again.

To me, it's common sense. Running through the first base bag will be faster than sliding, every time. The only time one should slide into first is if the first baseman has come off the bag, and is trying to apply a tag. A person may feel sliding is faster, but it simply isn't.

And yeah, it's more dangerous as well.

Didn't Mythbusters cover this as well? I'm pretty sure they did, and running through the base was much faster. They aren't athletes, but the evidence was still there.

brinoch · February 19, 2008

If you want to discuss sliding into first, please start a new thread (or the old one) to discuss it and various insights. This is not the appropriate thread for that discussion.

CoolHandLuke · February 19, 2008

I'm pretty sure there have been studies larger than 10 random people that have shown sliding into first base slows you down. Also, the potential for injury sliding feet first where the first baseman is holding the bag makes it much more dangerous than sliding into any other bag.

In an old thread on this subject I dug up numerous links that support the idea that sliding into first slows you down, but I am not going to dig them up again.

To me, it's common sense. Running through the first base bag will be faster than sliding, every time. The only time one should slide into first is if the first baseman has come off the bag, and is trying to apply a tag. A person may feel sliding is faster, but it simply isn't.

And yeah, it's more dangerous as well.

Didn't Mythbusters cover this as well? I'm pretty sure they did, and running through the base was much faster. They aren't athletes, but the evidence was still there.

The Mythbusters tested sliding into a base versus stopping directly at the base (not running through it), which seems like a huge waste of time to me.

MarqPTM · February 19, 2008

I'm pretty sure there have been studies larger than 10 random people that have shown sliding into first base slows you down. Also, the potential for injury sliding feet first where the first baseman is holding the bag makes it much more dangerous than sliding into any other bag.

In an old thread on this subject I dug up numerous links that support the idea that sliding into first slows you down, but I am not going to dig them up again.

To me, it's common sense. Running through the first base bag will be faster than sliding, every time. The only time one should slide into first is if the first baseman has come off the bag, and is trying to apply a tag. A person may feel sliding is faster, but it simply isn't.

And yeah, it's more dangerous as well.

Didn't Mythbusters cover this as well? I'm pretty sure they did, and running through the base was much faster. They aren't athletes, but the evidence was still there.

The Mythbusters tested sliding into a base versus stopping directly at the base (not running through it), which seems like a huge waste of time to me.

Wow, that is a huge waste of time. As was having Clemens come in that episode, can't get good results with a HGH-freak throwing the ball.

TheGrinch · February 19, 2008

The problem is that diving doesn't decrease the distance to the bag, just the perception of it. Simply bending forward to position yourself for the dive will put you behind the runner who is running flat out and in stride. The instant you break out of the normal sprinting motion, you lose speed. It's 90 feet from home to first, no matter what configuration your body is in when you get there.

No. Since you are ignoring my earlier explanation entirely, and the link that followed it up, I'll post it again.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_sliding_into_a_base_make_you_reach_base_faster

Read it this time. And yes, the Mythbusters episode "busted" a "myth" that didn't actually exist in the first place. Total waste of time.

CoolHandLuke · February 19, 2008

The problem is that diving doesn't decrease the distance to the bag, just the perception of it. Simply bending forward to position yourself for the dive will put you behind the runner who is running flat out and in stride. The instant you break out of the normal sprinting motion, you lose speed. It's 90 feet from home to first, no matter what configuration your body is in when you get there.
No. Since you are ignoring my earlier explanation entirely, and the link that followed it up, I'll post it again.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_sliding_into_a_base_make_you_reach_base_faster
Read it this time. And yes, the Mythbusters episode "busted" a "myth" that didn't actually exist in the first place. Total waste of time.

Sorry for continuing the baserunning discussion, but I don't buy what that website is selling. They don't seem to take into account that once you start to rotate into the dive/slide position you lose the ability to continue using your legs to propel yourself forward at the same rate. Also the part about fielders diving for balls doesn't make any sense. They don't dive to get to the ball faster, they dive to get their glove into the vicinity of the ball faster.

Outshined_One · February 19, 2008

The problem is that diving doesn't decrease the distance to the bag, just the perception of it. Simply bending forward to position yourself for the dive will put you behind the runner who is running flat out and in stride. The instant you break out of the normal sprinting motion, you lose speed. It's 90 feet from home to first, no matter what configuration your body is in when you get there.
No. Since you are ignoring my earlier explanation entirely, and the link that followed it up, I'll post it again.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_sliding_into_a_base_make_you_reach_base_faster
Read it this time. And yes, the Mythbusters episode "busted" a "myth" that didn't actually exist in the first place. Total waste of time.

One thing I would argue is that the umpire is not typically in a very good position to judge whether a runner sliding into 1B is safe or not. I think part of the difficulty of sliding into 1B is that your hand might not be easily visible to the umpire when it comes into contact with the base.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd imagine it might make a difference in terms of deciding whether to run or slide.

mul21 · February 19, 2008

Sorry for continuing the baserunning discussion, but I don't buy what that website is selling. They don't seem to take into account that once you start to rotate into the dive/slide position you lose the ability to continue using your legs to propel yourself forward at the same rate. Also the part about fielders diving for balls doesn't make any sense. They don't dive to get to the ball faster, they dive to get their glove into the vicinity of the ball faster.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but isn't that the same concept as trying to get your hand/body in the vicinity of the base faster?

CubinNY · February 19, 2008

The problem is that diving doesn't decrease the distance to the bag, just the perception of it. Simply bending forward to position yourself for the dive will put you behind the runner who is running flat out and in stride. The instant you break out of the normal sprinting motion, you lose speed. It's 90 feet from home to first, no matter what configuration your body is in when you get there.
No. Since you are ignoring my earlier explanation entirely, and the link that followed it up, I'll post it again.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_sliding_into_a_base_make_you_reach_base_faster
Read it this time. And yes, the Mythbusters episode "busted" a "myth" that didn't actually exist in the first place. Total waste of time.

One thing I would argue is that the umpire is not typically in a very good position to judge whether a runner sliding into 1B is safe or not. I think part of the difficulty of sliding into 1B is that your hand might not be easily visible to the umpire when it comes into contact with the base.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd imagine it might make a difference in terms of deciding whether to run or slide.

I've been told by umpires that they look at the feet and listen for the ball.

Anyway, there is no possible way sliding can be faster than running through a base. It defies the known laws of physics.

Re: Roberts: OH mini update (p.183); Happy 200!! (p.200)

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