Bobson Dugnutt

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Those 2 quality starts are part of a run of having 4 quality starts out of 14. His ERA is 66th of 74 qualified starters, and his FIP is dead last. I agree they won't DFA him for Hendricks, but when they add another SP or maybe even when they get Anderson back he's not secure in his roster spot. EDIT: More to the point, I'd like to imagine that come 8/1 the rotation has Lester, Hendricks, trade acquisition, Arrieta, and Montgomery, with Butler back in Iowa in reserve and Anderson fulfilling Montgomery's previous role. The timing of Lackey's departure depends on several factors(when a trade happens, when Hendricks and Anderson are healthy), but I would hope that he's the one that doesn't have a home when the dust settles. I agree with this for the most part, but I'm betting on an extended DL stint rather than the Cubs cutting him. Given his relationship with Lester, I see them handling it as delicately as possible. He can sit on the DL through August and come back when rosters expand. That is, unless Lackey takes issue with this plan, in which case, they'll send him packing.

Aren't nearly all of the outs he's made down there strikeouts?

Yup, a big part of the appeal of Gausman is that you'd be able to hang onto all of your top trade chips and get back a guy with upside, youth, pretty clean health history and 4+ years of control.

surprised no one's talking about this.

in 2015 they did. My memory is terrible. Please forgive. I will never call out David in public again. http://i.imgur.com/dVDJiez.gif

pretty sure that's james russell, not hammel. Those 3 never played together in 2015 they did.

isn't Flowers considered pretty strong in terms of pitch framing? i could get behind a flowers deal depending on what we'd have to send out.

does this basically take Caratini out of the mix in any trade talks, or would they roll with a Baker/Federowicz hump off the scrap heap as a backup?

good, this team needed to get younger.

Maybe I'm seriously overvaluing him, but I'm having a hard time coming up with anyone aside from Archer and Stroman (of even remotely plausible trade options) that I'd be interested in trading Eloy for.

Why is that? People are talking about giving up Eloy in a Sonny Gray package here. You don't think that's 1 for 1, do you? Since 2014, Gray has thrown 601 innings, to 568 for deGrom. Gray has been worth 8.5/8.7 WAR between FG and BR. DeGrom is at 13.6/13.2 over the same time. And deGrom has an extra year of control. Pitching costs. I do not agree with giving up Eloy for Gray, if people want to talk about that or think that's fair, great. Either way that's awful value/risk taking in my opinion. Right, I wouldn't do Eloy for Gray, and deGrom's got more red flags than gray, so I absolutely am not trading Eloy for deGrom.

This is Jacob deGrom we're talking about, right? Uh yeah. Is he illegal to bring up or something in your opinion? no, of course not. cw11, tom, & clapp have already pretty much covered the reasons to be concerned. but given his injury history, don't you think we could find a better return than deGrom if we're sending out maybe our two most attractive (prospect) trade chips? I get that pitching costs, but if that's the cost, I'd rather hope for some more savvy moves like vogelbach for Montgomery. deGrom just seems wayyyyy too risky to give up such valuable assets for.

This is Jacob deGrom we're talking about, right?

Jimmy's under contract for three more years, not two. And I disagree that the path that leaves us with zero stars is likelier to get us into contention more quickly than the one in which we have one. It's really 2 years. 3rd year is player option which he'll opt out 100%. ah, ok.

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact. Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done. If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star. A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar. It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success. We weren't competing for a title within the next two years, under any circumstance. At that point, you'd be paying Jimmy a super max deal and making it even harder to truly compete. I think this path is the one likelier to get us into contention quicker, acknowledging that NEITHER is likily to get the Bulls there within the next 3-4 years. Jimmy's under contract for three more years, not two. And I disagree that the path that leaves us with zero stars is likelier to get us into contention more quickly than the one in which we have one.

Is there a single person in the media even kind of defending it? Legitimately asking. I'd love to read it.

Rose's two year peak during which he won an MVP that he almost definitely didn't deserve was nice and all, but I'll take the bigger, stronger, more complete, more durable Butler who's hung around the top of the league for like 5 years now. They're both 3 time All Stars. Rose has an MVP. This is kind of a silly thing to argue, so I'll stop here on it. But, I'd say Rose is the best Bull since the 90's, whether he deserved the MVP or not. Eh, it's close, but I very much fall in line with this guy's rankings. [tweet]https://twitter.com/cosmis/status/833382838909227009[/tweet]

Jimmy is a top 10-15 player in the league, one of the 5 or so best players to ever put on a Bulls uniform, and the best Bull since MJ and Pippen. Our sorry ass front office, who you admit is terrible and needs to go, just traded him for a pile of flaming garbage, and your like "cool guess we overvalued him. But what a breath of fresh air this is." This is so bizarre I can barely handle it. Come on, the package isn't great. But, its not a flaming pile of garbage. If it PROVES to be, then fine. But, its not right now. There's possibilities with them. And as much as I hate Rose, he won a horsefeathering MVP. Jimmy is NOT the best Bull since Mike and Scottie. The one thing I honestly don't get is standing pat with being .500. I'd much prefer trying to be great than being average. This gets us on an actual path. Probably won't work with these guys running the show, but its better than running the risk of getting even less for him later. Rose's two year peak during which he won an MVP that he almost definitely didn't deserve was nice and all, but I'll take the bigger, stronger, more complete, more durable Butler who's hung around the top of the league for like 5 years now.

This I'll actually debate, without conceding I'm auto-wrong lol. We very well MAY have overvalued Jimmy. Again, my honest guess is we chose the wrong deal to accept. But, at mid season, or after the season, I honestly doubt we'd have received THIS much. And I'm OK with moving him now, instead of another middling, at best year. Jimmy is a top 10-15 player in the league, one of the 5 or so best players to ever put on a Bulls uniform, and the best Bull since MJ and Pippen. Our sorry ass front office, who you admit is terrible and needs to go, just traded him for a pile of flaming garbage, and your like "cool guess we overvalued him. But what a breath of fresh air this is." This is so bizarre I can barely handle it.

taking the path to blow it up and start fresh is all well and good, but you still must maximize your returns when you're dumping and most importantly must have good decision makers treading that path. I can't argue that obviously. But, when your team is run by morons, I think this is better than if they waited. And while I want them gone, I don't think they will be. I'd love to see what the other offers were. I'd probably be mad, if I saw them. I'm so fed up with the org, that I've decided throwing poo on the wall and seeing if something sticks is better than holding tight. Again, I'm on this island by myself, so I know what that means lol. look what garpax have done to you

it's so laughably bad.

I just don't get applauding them for "picking a direction" when literally the first step they took in that direction, they fell flat and their face and then horsefeathers all over themselves while they were still laying on the ground. Good job?

It's seriously like the Cubs pulling off a successful rebuild with the smartest guy in the sport overseeing it has led people to believe that, for the Bulls and Bears, it's as easy as getting rid of all of your good players and losing for a few years.

When you have a front office like Theo and Jed, you can usually trust that when a deal is made, it was the best deal out there to be made. You cannot do the same with GarPax. They haven't earned that benefit of the doubt in terms of trade negotiations or player evaluations. You can't just look at this trade, shrug your shoulders and say, "welp, guess we overrated Butler and this was the best deal out there." Theo and Jed also do a good job of valuing their own players and drawing hard lines when teams don't meet that value in their trade offers. GarPax aren't known for that either. If the offers aren't out there, it's a good time to walk away. Also, GarPax aren't likely getting fired. Reinsdorf is loyal to a fault. But "now fore GarPax" is an interesting sentiment *after* they've completed (and completely fucked up) the most important deal the organization had to make in any kind of rebuild. But hey, we got three rotation players out of the deal once we sweetened the pot (that already included the best player in the deal by a wide margin) by adding a first round pick. And now we get to spin the wheel of fortune for the next five years.