VanceJergins

Agreed. I think my favorite scenario is having Andruw Jones in CF.

Is the ability out there to build a winner through FA this season? If the Cubs got like Zito, Schmidt, Soriano, and C. Lee, I'd still have doubts of whether they can contend. There's rationalism, and then there's being pessimistic just to be pessimistic. Say we settled for someone like Dave Roberts to replace Pierre (not saying he's worse than Pierre) and keep Izturis at SS, a lineup of Roberts Murton Lee Soriano Ramirez C. Lee Barrett Izuris with a rotation of Zambrano, Zito, Schmidt, Hill, Prior would win over 100 games, that would be an absolutely amazing team. Not saying we'll possibly have that team, but saying you dont know if that team could contend is ridiculous. The Cubs were really bad this year, but lets not get EMO.

Sometimes I wonder if that guy just sits down and tries to think of every stupid thing he could possibly say and then decides to go for it.

When the Yankees went down in the first round I really thought we had dodged a bullet.....I really have to stop being optimistic.

The Beltran team probably would have won this year. Beltran: .275/ .388/ .594 Manny: .321/ .439/ .619 The Manny team would have scored many more runs, but with this scenario are we talking 8 Manny's on defense too?.....Cause that would be ugly. Yeah, it's the whole package, including 8 Manny's taking the last 6 weeks off. Beltran's OPS+ equaled Manny's career OPS+ this year, although it was slightly behind Manny's 2006 OPS+, which was done in something like 100 fewer plate appearances. Then you're right. Considering this is about hustle and such I should have realized we were talking about all aspects of each player. 8 headcases randomly demanding trades and taking days off wouldnt be ideal. the discussion is figurative anyway. at 162 games and max production, i'd take a non-hustling manny-type over a "hustling" beltran-type, and so would goony, probably. we got off on a tangent when goony decided to lead us into a more literal debate. After I took a second to think about it, he made me take this figurative argument way too literally without me even realizing it.....what a jerk.

I think a team with 8 Beltrans would be a consistently winning team.....but I get your point.

The Beltran team probably would have won this year. Beltran: .275/ .388/ .594 Manny: .321/ .439/ .619 The Manny team would have scored many more runs, but with this scenario are we talking 8 Manny's on defense too?.....Cause that would be ugly. Yeah, it's the whole package, including 8 Manny's taking the last 6 weeks off. Beltran's OPS+ equaled Manny's career OPS+ this year, although it was slightly behind Manny's 2006 OPS+, which was done in something like 100 fewer plate appearances. Then you're right. Considering this is about hustle and such I should have realized we were talking about all aspects of each player. 8 headcases randomly demanding trades and taking days off wouldnt be ideal.

Didnt get it done in time? How do you know Ramirez would have even talked before the season was over? How do you know Hendry didnt try? How did he not get it done in time when all the reports say he wants to resign and Hendry is already talking with his agent? Sorry, you're just not making very much sense.

The Beltran team probably would have won this year. Beltran: .275/ .388/ .594 Manny: .321/ .439/ .619 The Manny team would have scored many more runs, but with this scenario are we talking 8 Manny's on defense too?.....Cause that would be ugly.

Razor Shines visited my little league field when I was about 10 or 11 and gave me an autographed card...which I lost....Based only on this childhood memory, he has my vote for manager.

I'd say depends. With A-Rod: 2 (getting beat in playoffs after both years) Without A-Rod: 1.5 (sub-.500) Theres no way the Yankees will be under .500 even without ARod. I wouldn't say there's no way. The AL East gets tougher each year. If Tejada is successful in luring Soriano and Baltimore could land Jason Schmidt, they could be a pretty good team in '07. Toronto isn't a slouch. Boston is always a threat and Tampa just needs to find some arms to go with their continually improving offense. Meanwhile, NY continues to get older. Bernie Williams, Gary Sheffield, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson could all be gone. Zito and Schmidt both seem to prefer the west coast. Not really sure what FA's the Yankees might pursue and land this offseason. It's all about pitching for them, and there isn't much out there. I think the Yankees being under .500 is possible in the "anything's possible" sort of way. But I wasnt just saying that their current roster minus A-Rod would be just fine. They're the Yankees and they'll be after all the top FA's. And if they were minus A-Rod that would mean that they traded him and I'm sure they'd get something pretty valuable for him. And like goony said, they'll still have a lineup with Damon, Abreu, Matsui, Posada, Cano, Giambi, Jeter. I see very very little chance they're not significantly better than .500 even if they trade ARod.

Exactly. If they are gonna spend all that money, get 4 #1 starters. You can assemble the best offensive lineup in baseball, but on any given night they can get shut down by good pitching, its that simple. Offseason Headline: Yankees sign Zito, Scmidt, and Matsuzaka Thats the thing that worries me Steinbenner is going to be on mission this off season driving up the price on these players to a ridiculous level. I'm happy they lost but this could be bad news for any hope of the Cubs getting Zito or Schmidt. This post has been made in baseball forums every year in October for the past 6 years. And then the Yankees sign Jaret Wright. Thats a very good point. Theres also the fact that they have so many horrible contracts and they're building a new stadium, I'm not sure they can afford any more ridiculous contracts.

I'd say depends. With A-Rod: 2 (getting beat in playoffs after both years) Without A-Rod: 1.5 (sub-.500) Theres no way the Yankees will be under .500 even without ARod.

Tell me why you would want Joe Torre managing this team? The guy has had an all star team for the past 6 years and has won 1 WS. He was an average to below average manager before the Yankees, just ask St Louis fans how they feel about him. Plain and simple Joe Torre is not a very good manager, and would be a terrible choice for the Cubs. Please retire Joe. He's had an all-star line-up, but nowhere near an all-star team. That starting pitching is awful and the bullpen is even worse except for Rivera. Torre doesnt over-use pitchers, and he stresses patience. In his post game interview after I think the second game he said something about "we tried to push their starter past 100 pitchers as we always do". He likes OBP and doesnt give up outs (that might just be because he had an all-star lineup, I'm not sure). The only reason I wouldnt really want Torre is because he would probably cost a lot, and an impact player would be more valuable IMO. I think the failures in NY have more to do with the organization not realizing that 45 year old, washed up, 15 million dollar pitchers isnt the best way to build a staff. EDIT: Oh yeah, and because A-Rod isnt clutch *jumps in bunker*

how do you know what the yankees want? Based on history alone I believe he is right. I can't even remember the last time the Yankees traded for a prospect as a centerpiece of a deal. The florida marlins fit the bill for what he is saying. Cubs get: A-Rod Marlins get: Pie, Guzman, and Marshall/Mateo Yankees get: Willis I can see the Yankees being very interested in Hill. They're also going to need a RF if they dont bring Sheffield back, so maybe Hill and Jones, and maybe throw in Eyre. I think that might be enough to get them interested. But I definitely think A-Rod will be moved this offseason, there's no way he wants to go back to NY.

Wotus? Is that a secret service acronym? If I'm not mistaken its a humidifier with cupholders....but its been years since I've taken a science class.

A team that was predicted to lose over 100 games. I dont think it was all because of Girardi, but the team did vastly over-achieve. It might have some to do with his managing, it might not. how many wins do you think they'll have this year? remember, girardi's gone, so they're all going to go back to being bums. Does that answer your question? We'll wait and see how much of an impact he had....I dont know.

I dont think he's the greatest, but would probably be better than whats available. I'm not sure about that. I think Torre has benefit from having an owner with deep pockets, and a very good stuff. Torre hardly does any "in game" stratgey. I think if the chance the Cubs ever got Joe Torre, the Cubs would see the "Pre-Yankee" Torre who went 888-1003 with the Mets/Braves/Cards and the "Yankee" Torre. IMO, Torre, dare I say, isn't as great of manager as the NY Media (and ESPN for that matter) hyped him to be. In fact, I believe Girardi would be just a good of a manager in 2007 as Joe Torre, wherever Girardi ended up. One of the worst things a manager can do is try to do too much. From what I've seen Torre is big supporter of working counts and OBP and seems to handle a pitching staff pretty well (I could be wrong about that, but I think thats what I've heard). But as for the person who said we could get an impact player for what we'd pay Torre.....touche.

A team that was predicted to lose over 100 games. I dont think it was all because of Girardi, but the team did vastly over-achieve. It might have some to do with his managing, it might not.

I dont think he's the greatest, but would probably be better than whats available.

Does anyone think Torre might be fired if the Yankees have another early exit? I think he would be a upgrade over anyone thats currently available. Then ARod and Torre can reunite in Chicagao where hypocrites like Giambi wont tell Torre to be tough on ARod.

I also doubt that would get it done. I think if you added Hudson to the deal, we might be able to get both for Jones, Marshall, Marmol, Patterson, and maybe someone like Moore, Aardsma, or Ryu. But I do think Andruw would be ideal for CF next year. But if we cant get him, who here thinks that Lofton has another good year in him? If we sign him in CF and Soriano at 2B I think we'd have a much improved lineup.

Drew spends a lot of time on the DL. We should be trying to avoid that kind of player, if the last two years has taught us anything. So have a good backup for the 30 games he'll miss. The 125 games he's in the lineup, he'd be a force. He's been pretty healthy this year. I like the idea. If he gets injured (which is likely for about 30 games or so) you could just platoon Pie and Restovich during that time. Drew has himself a lucious OBP and now I'm really liking this scenario. Someone get Hendry on the phone. He's making 11M a year through '09. You don't pay that much money for a guy who's a good bet to spend significant time on the DL. Every acquisition we make needs to take into account durability. There's better ways to spend 11M a season, or roughly 10% of our payroll. You have a very good point, but the fact that Drew usually plays at least 100 games every season makes it less of a gamble. If he played 130 games I think he'd be worth it, mostly because I think a Pie/Restovich platoon would give us some pretty good production if he did get hurt. I know the Cubs have really been burnt by injuries, but eventually we have to get lucky.....right?

Exactly! Drew and Crawford in the lineup would be good. Any way to get Abreu and bat him first, since his HR power has diminished? I doubt there's any way to get our hands on Abreu, New York seems to have taken a liking to him. And Crawford is a very good player, I dont think he's worth what itd cost to get him. His OBP isnt good enough for him to be a great top of the order guy, and his power isnt good enough for him to be a great middle of the order guy. He could only be a great 6 or 7 hitter. If we could get him for like, Cedeno and Guzman I'd probably do it, but I'm guessing it'd take significantly more than that. But when Drew's healthy, he has the OBP and SLG to be great anywhere in the lineup.

How about Jones and some cash to the Angels for a prospect? The Angels could play Jones in LF (assuming they don't get Manny) and move Garret Anderson to DH permanently. How about Jones and some cash to the Tigers for a prospect? I've read Detroit may trade Craig Monroe this offseason or even non-tender him. No love for Manny? Jones, Demp and 1 of Marmol, Marshall, Mateo for Manny? That would be amazing, although I think it would take a lot more than that to get Manny. But I do remember hearing rumors of Mike Cameron and a prospect for Manny last year. If that was really discussed then who knows.