VanceJergins

This is the problem-regardless of the defense that I might use, if it doesn't incorporate the specific statistical analysis and sample size that you have deemed appropriate, its considered illogical. For example, if I cited Mike Fontenot's minor league history that has shown him, over the long-term, to be statistically superior to Cedeno, you'll claim that Cedeno's numbers last year in AAA and in the small sample size this year are more important. Yet, if I used Theriot's numbers this year to support why he plays over Cedeno, the "sample size would be too small." The goal posts keep getting moved. This is not to say that these discussions aren't healthy, but to use these differences of opinion and claim that one has the factual high ground is simply wrong. And if I dared to use anything other than numbers (by citing situational attributes, mechanical problems for Hill, etc.), I would be "picking a fight," because apparently those ideas have been erroneously deemed to have no merit whatsoever. That's not even worth getting into. At age 22 in AAA, Cedeno had an OPS of .921. At age 22 in A, Fontenot had an OPS of .697 At age 24 in AAA, Cedeno had an OPS of .959. At age 24 in AAA, Fontenot had an OPS of .766 Cedeno is by all accounts a better defensive player. Cedeno has better offensive numbers this year. You can't just look at overall minor league numbers. If that's your argument then you just really don't understand the numbers. Cedeno started in the minors 4 years younger than Fontenot. If Hill was yanked for poor performance, then logically shouldn't Marquis be yanked for worse performance...dating back 3 years? There's a difference between finding excuses and making a logical argument.

I don't see what this has to do with anything. Then you're being incredibly dense. And purposefully so, it would seem. I'm getting tired of the Lou apologists here Keep making posts like this and no one with an even remotely divergent opinion will want to post here anymore. Then everyone can agree on everything...that makes for good discussion. I loathe the decision to sit Pie, especially for what I feel is an inferior player. But if someone wants to argue in favor of it, great-maybe I'm wrong. Its within the realm of possibility that the guy comes in and hits .300 and does a solid job. More importantly, I certainly am not "tired" of people who defend the coaches--that's kinda the point of discussion. That's certainly why I post here. I think the "Lou Apologists" just might be picking fights because they feel that even the most remote defense of him is censored by the tyranny of the majority. At times, I can't say I blame them. If someone is able to form a reasonable argument in favor of a differing opinion, then there is good discussion. If someone defends Lou for reasons such as: 1. He's the manager!!1! 2. Have you ever even played baseball?! 3. Maybe Lou knows something we don't. Ever think of that? 4. I actually watch the games and trust me, Edmonds still has it. 5. Go back to your mom's basement!!1! lawlz! 6. Lolz, you want to play Pie against rhp just because his numbers are better than Johnson's against RH???!!! I actually watch the games and trust me, Pie is Patterson 2.0! --- Then these people's opinions don't deserve to be respected. I think you're picking the dumbest of the responses you might get in response to your opinion and pretending like that's the norm. You could count on one hand the number of responses that are concurrently as silly and rude as these on this site. I almost never see responses like the ones above to anyone on these boards...in fact, I see sample size manipulations masquerading as statistical analysis for the purposes of browbeating differing opinions far more often here than I see stupid knee jerk "I watch the game" posts. Ok, then logically defend some of Lou's moves. 1. Edmonds/Johnson over Pie, when the ideal situation would probably be Cedendo/Pie platoon. (and Pie getting about 2 starts at the beginning of the season to prove himself) 2. Lou planning on having Hill make a few more starts in the minors and Marquis still in the rotation. 3. Chad Fox on the major league team with guys like Ascancio (sp?), Hart, and several other better pitchers in the minors. 4. Fontenot always going in on a double switch when Cedeno has hit better and is a much better fielder.

By who? Jason Marquis

A FEW more? He really is clueless.

#1 in OBP and #1 in runs scored....hmmmmm. I'm sure its just a coincidence.

Ha...I had to think about that one for a second.

I don't see what this has to do with anything. Then you're being incredibly dense. And purposefully so, it would seem. I'm getting tired of the Lou apologists here Keep making posts like this and no one with an even remotely divergent opinion will want to post here anymore. Then everyone can agree on everything...that makes for good discussion. I loathe the decision to sit Pie, especially for what I feel is an inferior player. But if someone wants to argue in favor of it, great-maybe I'm wrong. Its within the realm of possibility that the guy comes in and hits .300 and does a solid job. More importantly, I certainly am not "tired" of people who defend the coaches--that's kinda the point of discussion. That's certainly why I post here. I think the "Lou Apologists" just might be picking fights because they feel that even the most remote defense of him is censored by the tyranny of the majority. At times, I can't say I blame them. If someone is able to form a reasonable argument in favor of a differing opinion, then there is good discussion. If someone defends Lou for reasons such as: 1. He's the manager!!1! 2. Have you ever even played baseball?! 3. Maybe Lou knows something we don't. Ever think of that? 4. I actually watch the games and trust me, Edmonds still has it. 5. Go back to your mom's basement!!1! lawlz! 6. Lolz, you want to play Pie against rhp just because his numbers are better than Johnson's against RH???!!! I actually watch the games and trust me, Pie is Patterson 2.0! --- Then these people's opinions don't deserve to be respected.

Lineup: LF: Johnson 2B: Fontenot 1B: Lee CF: Edmonds 3B: Ramirez RF: DeRosa SS: Theriot C: Blanco

I'm not sure. Two Braves scoring on a single sac fly FTW. Was Estes pitching for the Braves? I think the impending doom of Edmonds is adding a crap load to my frustration.

Worst...game...ever

worst...game...ever

HAHA!! That made me lawlz.

I hope this stirs up the type of argument you want. Best wishes. I'm sorry...I'll make sure all my comments from now on follow the party line. My apologies. You're so smart and know so much about baseball...its awesome.

Yeah, because Marquis has such an awesome track record. Why just last year he was arguably the best pitcher on the team.

Sheesh, is Soto ever going to get a day off?

Adrian Gonzalez looks exactly like the main character from Clerks in his picture on gameday.

Is there going to be a delay?

I'd strike out miserably. If I could practice for a couple weeks beforehand, I could maybe foul one off. I played non-stop until I was 13, then didn't play for a couple years, then played again for a couple years in high school. I did good in JV my first year of high school, then when I played varsity the next year I had the absolute worst coach that has ever existed. In practice we would be lucky to get 5 swings at bp pitches and then shag balls the rest of the time. Sooo, I never really learned to hit breaking balls or a good fastball. I wouldn't stand much of a chance.

Voted Dusty because as someone else mentioned, he by far did the most damage.

Nobody is welcoming Edmonds with "open arms", it's the simply inevitable that Hendry will sign Edmonds. 99.999999999999999999999 to inifnity% of the Cubs fans would prefer to keep Pie up and not sign Edmonds. But Hendry/Piniella has a man-crush on Edmonds.... Actually, on the Tribune poll a full 39.6% endorse the move. Sheesh. I knew there were a lot of dumb people, but that seems way too high.

That's what I'm counting on Soul. It's just a brilliant motivational technique for Pie. He'll go 3-for-3 with two walks tonight, and this will all go away. Right? You actually think Pie will play tonight?

Their pitching is awful. So is their hitting. And their fielding. They have the best lineup in baseball That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. The rest of their lineup outside of those guys is complete crap. Yeah, but those four guys consist of half their lineup. So you're saying that those 4 + crap is better than Ellsbury Pedroia Ortiz Ramirez Youkalis Lowell Drew Lugo Varitek Or however they line them up? Hell, even: Soriano Theriot Lee Ramirez Fukudome Soto DeRosa Pie/Johnson Or Weeks, Cameron, Fielder, Braun, Hall, Hart, Hardy, Kendall Or Granderson, Renteria, Guillen, Ordonez, Cabrera, Sheffield, Rodriguez, whoever Or Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Burrell, Jenkins, Feliz, whoever Or Damon, Jeter, Abreu, ARod, Matsui, Giambi, Cabrera, Cano, Posada Or probably a few other teams.

Their pitching is awful. So is their hitting. And their fielding. They have the best lineup in baseball False Lance Berkman, Miguel Tejada, Hunter Pence, Carlos Lee 7-3 By the way (best to worst, imo) Derrek Lee = Berkman (maybe a slight edge to Berkman) Ramirez > Carlos Lee Soriano > Tejada Soto > Pence Fukudome > Wigginton DeRosa > Matsui/Loretta Theriot > Towles Pie/Johnson > Bourn

Who the hell is saying that Murton should be playing? He should have played more last year, but now that we have Soriano and Fukudome, no one is claiming he should be playing. And Pie is the present, in that, he is presently better than Edmonds in every way.

Is there any word if any other teams might possibly claim him?