muntjack

His job is to continually make this team better. I don't think this team is any better than it was going into 2004 or 2005. I don't see any reason to give him credit for "going hard after guys", and I don't give him any credit for getting rid of guys that sucked, who he got in the first place even though they already sucked and he gave a raise to even though they sucked. This is still a deeply flawed team that had several glaring weaknesses that have been around for a few years that management refuses to either admit are weaknesses, or address them properly. First off, let me state that I agree with your assessment of management's failure completely. Unfortunately many here (myself included) have let these failures obscure the fact that we may very well have the best team in the NL Central. Among Central qualifiers: 1B- DLEE - #2 2B-TWALK- #1 or 2 3B-ARAM- #1 (Rolen coming off injury/Ensberg not quite as good) SS- Cedeno- #2 or 3 (assuming .278 .330 .400) C- Barrett-#1 RF-JJ- #3 CF- Pierre- #2 or 3 LF- Murton - #2 (assuming .280 .340 .440) SP1- Z- #1 or 2 SP2- Prior- #1 SP3-Wood- #1 (I know, I know) SP4- Maddux- #1 SP#5- Rusch/Williams/Guzman- #1 These are close if not exact. Our bullpen should also be our best in a very long time. If we had competent management, and a real bat in LF, we would be the easy favorites in the central, IMO.

Yeah, well so did Juan Cruz. (sigh)

I don't think he's really saying its irrelevant, but I think the point he was trying to make is that for 2 years Miggy and Jones had nearly identical stats. One player we all are crying about that we got and the other we are considering giving up a number one starter who is in his mid 20s. Thank you. The fact that these two players were virtually a wash for two recent seasons (including the MVP year) is remarkable considering the different reactions they have received on this board. I understand that Tejada is a better player than Jacque Jones. Does the difference between Jacque Jones and Miguel Tejada=Mark Prior? No. No. No. A good #5 hitter or a 25-year-old ace with HOF potential? How is there even a question?

Just for a little perspective ( This was Miggy's MVP year) 2002 stats Jacque Jones .300/.341/.852 Miguel Tejada .308/.354/.862 2003 stats Jacque Jones .304/.333/.797 Miguel Tejada .278/.336/.808 One guy we don't want near the team, the other we're willing to give up Prior for? Prior>>>>>>>>>Tejada

#1- Team stat. Who cares. #2- He won in a weak year because of those RBIs. Voters are morons. #3- Yes, but.... Is the difference between Tejada and Furcal worth Mark Prior? Certainly not. Remember, Tejada has never posted an OPS above .900. This is a good #5 hitter, that is all.

Red Sox get- Ronnie Cedeno, Felix Pie, Rich Hill, Matt Murton Orioles get- Mark Prior, Angel Guzman, Brian Dopirak Cubs Get- Erik Bedard, Miguel Tejada, Manny Ramirez That would make us a better team RIGHT NOW, but we'd be done for if we didn't win the world series immediately. Let me just say I don't make this trade, considering future implications.

If this deal became: Red Sox get- Murton and Pie Orioles get-Cedeno and Prior Cubs get- Ramirez and Tejada Then I might consider it, only because..... Pierre Walker Lee Ramirez Ramirez Tejada Jones Barrett would make the mets lineup look like the royals'. We could give Hill a shot in the rotation and Guzman a shot in the summer, ending up with: Zambrano Wood Guzman Hill Maddux

Mark Prior's Career (Age 25): IP- 613.1 H- 536 K-719 BB-195 ERA-3.24 This is after all the fluke injuries and (too) early comebacks. Again, he is 25 years old. Miguel Tejada's Career (Age 29): .280/.338/.477/.815 What a horrible, horrible idea.

Every hitter with an OPS over .850? Every pitcher with an ERA under 3.11? This would be the greatest team of all time, and it's not even close. Sounds good.

#1, I think. Compare his numbers at age 22 to Pujols at age "22". Scary. Cabrera is also a natural third baseman, and is being paid peanuts.

I would prefer to just keep Walker. Giving up Patterson and say, Wellemeyer for Vidro would be MUCH more desirable that trading the farm for Tejada, IMO. Miguel is vastly overrated, and although Vidro's knee is a concern, he is a better hitter than Tejada. This also allows us to keep Cedeno at SS, giving us excellent defense up the middle. Walker for free> Vidro for Patterson/prospect>>>Tejada for Pie/Hill/Marshall

I think we'll see 20+ HRs in a full season. I find it fascinating that as soon as Murton's power was questioned last year, he started focusing on hitting HRs...........and it worked. This guy has real talent.

-It's pretty obvious the marlins are looking to build for 2008-2010. They are stockpiling as many quality prospects as they can that will still be affordable at that point. A package of Hill, Marshall, Pie and Harvey would be BY FAR the best compensation they have recieved for any part of their fire sale so far. I believe it's very likely they consider giving up a player who will command a MONSTER contract, for four cheap, high-ceiling players in the midst of a complete dismantling of their team. By the time the marlins start to gel, Cabrera and Dontrelle will take up half the payroll. I think they realize this, and while it will take a LOT to get him, it could be done, IMO.

Seconded! I'm going to go against the grain and say I would not make this trade. I would be willing to part with all of those prospects for a bat that would be the centerpiece of our lineup. Tejada, however, would be the third best hitter in our lineup. Not worth it, IMO. In his MVP year, (awarded mostly because of his 131 RBIs) he had an .862 OPS. His career OPS is .815. This guy is good, not great. I think if we took that package and threw in Harvey, we could pry Miguel Cabrera away. Much younger, and would instantly be the #1 bat in our lineup. Cedeno/Cabrera>>>>Tejada/2nd tier RF

Wow. In many of these scenarios, we are completely depleting our farm system. Let's not forget that in 2003 Tejada put up this line: .278/.336./.472 Or in 2001: .267/.326/.476 Even if he has an average year, he will be the third best hitter on our team. In fact, I think Murton's numbers will come very close, as well. this is not worth selling off the farm, IMO. If were going to give up Hill, Pie, Guzman, etc., then let's just go after the other Miggy.

I think if they were looking for pitchers like Prior, they wouldn't be offering Willis. They are obviously trying to go younger and, more importantly, cheaper. If I ever find out that the Marlins had offered Cabrera for Pie and Hill (or any package of prospects) and Hendry turned it down.......... And I'm higher on those two than most.

If you could get Bradley for only Patterson then why in the world would you give up all that (or anything, really) for Pierre? If we get Bradley stick him in center and focus on getting a RF. And once again, I'd like for anyone to explain to me a good reason for trading Walker for Soriano, even if it's a straight-up deal. Yes. If we get Bradley, it will be for centerfield/leadoff. Hendry has stated numerous times that he wants a power bat for right.

Just get Miggy. Pujols Age 22: .955 OPS Cabrera Age 22: .946 OPS (in an extreme pitchers park) We could use another good SP, but we certainly don't need to splurge on Dontrelle. Here's our chance to get a very young franchise player at a position we need in a year we can afford the prospects. Manna from heaven.

Not to toot my own horn, but I did suggest a couple of weeks back that Miggy and Dontrelle could eventually become available. I would pursue Cabrera over any other player in baseball. Any price that doesn't include Z or Prior, I pay it.

And the Phillies asked for Mark Prior in return. Rotoworld says Philadelphia was not "dismissed outright". I want Abreu badly, but I don't make this trade. The article goes on to suggest a possible Williams + Hill for Abreu, which I would do so fast Gillick's head would spin. link to the original article http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13338004.htm

Gammons: "The cubs still need a right fielder like Jacque Jones" What a brilliant baseball mind.

ARam is just entering his prime. Abreu is just exiting his prime. I think it's very likely Ramirez will out-produce Abreu over the next three years. .325 .400 .600 is in the realm of possibility, IMO. For this reason, this trade makes no sense for us.

Two players I trade Zambrano for: 1. Albert Pujols 2. Miguel Cabrera

You know Dontrelle and Cabrera can't be too pleased with this either. If Miggy publicly says ANYTHING negative about this, I immediately offer a huge package (Pie, Cedeno, Nolasco, Hill, Williams, Patterson..whatever) just in case the Marlins are willing.