Electron Blue

just for fun, name your 12 A dozen was just an offhand comment to dismiss Murton's claim that Bonds as the greatest player, I'd certainly put Barroid in the top 10, but I'll play along. In no order, Ruth, Williams, Mays, Cobb, Musial, Clemens, Aaron, W. Johnson, Gehrig, Koufax, Matthewson, Hornsby, Speaker offhand comments to dismiss other posters' claims is exactly what this board needs less of.

edit: sarcasm, Ryan? how many times has he done that, significantly hurt himself running the bases? He has averaged 156 games the last five years. Being injury-prone is very hard to causaly quantify, but with Sori, you have no shot. It's definitely sarcasm on Ryan's part. i didn't catch it the first time, but i figured as much afterward :)

Awesome. And that is probably how it works. Nice, but it's no "Dusty's Dugout Dice"

edit: sarcasm, Ryan? how many times has he done that, significantly hurt himself running the bases? He has averaged 156 games the last five years. Being injury-prone is very hard to causaly quantify, but with Sori, you have no shot.

Sorry, I can't embrace okay ness. I want the Cubs to be great. You know what I wanted for lunch today? A steak. All we had around here were hot pockets. I guess I'll just go hungry? No, I ate a hot pocket. And I'd be a fool to restrain my enjoyment of it just because it wasn't "great." Presumably you've eaten steak once in your life though, as opposed to the zero times you've seen a truly great Cubs team. I have, and I enjoyed the steak well enough to want it again. The 2003 team (greatness aside, since that's ambiguous) was very succesful and incredibly fun to watch, thus I know what I'm missing during the Cubs less-than-average years. Was that your point? by the way, the hot pocket was quite good. 2003 was an above average team that had a nice run. Great teams win 90+ games and contend year-in year-out. The Cubs have never been great in your lifetime. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I still don't get it. The game is very different from decades ago (really this applies to all major sports). We can't define great the way you did -- it's too high of a standard for modern sports. It's especially unfair for me to apply that standard to my favorite team who hasn't lived up to it in my lifetime (thanks for assuming I'm not in my 70s by the way ;)). I understand you Want greatness, and so do I. But I don't expect it, the way you define it. I expect contention for the playoffs. Hell, as a whole 2004 was somewhat of a success. I am, in fact, quite critical of Hendry/Lou/Baker/anyone . . . but when the team is out there playing, I love the team, and I see every win as a step in the right direction: first place in august

Sorry, I can't embrace okay ness. I want the Cubs to be great. You know what I wanted for lunch today? A steak. All we had around here were hot pockets. I guess I'll just go hungry? No, I ate a hot pocket. And I'd be a fool to restrain my enjoyment of it just because it wasn't "great." Presumably you've eaten steak once in your life though, as opposed to the zero times you've seen a truly great Cubs team. I have, and I enjoyed the steak well enough to want it again. The 2003 team (greatness aside, since that's ambiguous) was very succesful and incredibly fun to watch, thus I know what I'm missing during the Cubs less-than-average years. Was that your point? by the way, the hot pocket was quite good.

Hooray mediocrity!! I'm surprised by the reaction to my comments. Why are we even Cubs fans, guys? Why even follow a team if you can't get caught up in the (positive) excitement of a pennant chase? I didn't choose to be a Cubs fan, it just happened, so I can't answer why I am one. However, it's one thing to be excited about being in a race for the title, and embracing the okayness. The Cubs are in a great position to win the division, because they are lucky to be in the Central. But they aren't a very good team and that bothers me. I want to be a fan of a very good, preferabbly excellent, baseball team. Since I can't just start being a fan of another team, I need the Cubs to be that excellent team. And they aren't. It's annoying. I don't take solace in the fact that it's better than what they've done in most years. If I'm a slave who works for a jerk of a master who beats me daily, I'm not going to be thankful if he starts cutting back to once a week. I know it's an over-the-top metaphor . . . but seriously, this may be the crux of our disagreement. If I'm in that situation, I consider two realities: the one who gets beaten daily (past), the one who gets beaten weekly (present). I sure as hell am thankful to be in the present. Last year, Neifi whipped us daily; this year, Marquis whips us weekly. Maybe that'll resonate. :)

Hooray mediocrity!! I'm surprised by the reaction to my comments. Why are we even Cubs fans, guys? Why even follow a team if you can't get caught up in the (positive) excitement of a pennant chase? I got your back Blue, and I'm the type of person that sees every season that doesn't result in a world championship as an utter failure. For those keeping score, I have experienced 20 utter failures in my life and counting ... If someone had told me at the beginning of the season that this team would be a game back on August 8th, I would have wanted to kiss them and punch them at the same time. Thanks cow-made-of-glass, us Nebraskans gotta stick together ;) Earlier I wanted people to imagine hearing our current situation during last season... But imagine hearing about it in June 2 this year. That's the better case for being happy with where we are :)

Hooray mediocrity!! I'm surprised by the reaction to my comments. Why are we even Cubs fans, guys? Why even follow a team if you can't get caught up in the (positive) excitement of a pennant chase? I'm frustrated because I think they can and should be better. It doesn't mean I'm not caught up in the race. I don't think that makes me any less of a fan, as you are insinuating. I am not satisfied with being in a "pennet chase" when I think they could/should be doing better. You seem to be suggesting we should only be a fan of the team if we just accept that they're "in it" and just be satisfied. First, I really didn't mean to insinuate that ANYBODY here wasn't a fan. I just genuinely wanted an explanation as to how one could follow a team that is succesful (goal=make playoffs; cubs=contending), yet dismiss their chances simply because the chances aren't higher. (italicized for emphasis - that's probably thes best way I can describe my confusion). again, no disrespect meant. I hate the "you're not a fan" crap that some fans like to throw around.

Sorry, I can't embrace okay ness. I want the Cubs to be great. You know what I wanted for lunch today? A steak. All we had around here were hot pockets. I guess I'll just go hungry? No, I ate a hot pocket. And I'd be a fool to restrain my enjoyment of it just because it wasn't "great."

Hooray mediocrity!! I'm surprised by the reaction to my comments. Why are we even Cubs fans, guys? Why even follow a team if you can't get caught up in the (positive) excitement of a pennant chase?

I'm not sure what you mean. I was posing a perspective: that we're in a good position at this point in the year. The fact that this situation is uncommon for us cubs fans, I understand, won't be shared by all. But why not live in the moment? I think you try and look at the big, pessimistic picture too often (I'm thinking of the JJ comments in the other thread). Right now things are okay and we would enjoy the season if we embraced that Okay-ness, IMO. How are we set up to be letdown? If anything, a more negative view is setting you up to never enjoy the season, if you think they're not good now, and aren't likely to make the playoffs. Again, embrace the positive -- not only is it more logical, but I think it's more fun :)

Imagine being told a year ago today that the Cubs were in second place, a game behind a team that has its own share of flaws... It's august 8th, friends, let's be happy that we're contending at all -- this doesn't happen every year. We have plenty of flaws, sure, and don't stop criticizing or getting frustrated. Just remember two things, 1) we're in a good position, and 2) this team we have right now put us there.

100,000 internet votes < 1 message board post . . . if the vote is for D-Lee and the post is a personal attack on a fellow cubs fan for being devoted.

Derrek Lee in particular has been watching pitches right down the middle. Work in progress. When you have been told to swing at everything for four years it takes a while to adjust to a philosophy of "wait for something good to hit". and that's my point. I don't think Perry really wants the hitters to let good pitches go by, but they may not have the skills or at least haven't learned enough pitch recognition to make Perry's philosophy work really well. For the most part, our hitters are much more patient it seems than last season. On the other hand, often they end up 1-2 or 0-2 after looking at some really hittable pitches...and often this occurs in times where we need a hit or at least good contact. since when do All Stars like Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez need to learn how to hit? you're twisting the words, perhaps intentionally. They are learning a new philosophy, one that affects instincts, which cannot be changed over night.

GIS for "1870's townball team": http://www.printsoldandrare.com/colleges/283univ.jpg what a scuffling gang of raggamuffins they are!

Argh, came here to post exactly that. A great primer for more indepth statistical analysis in baseball. Thanks everyone for the consensus on this -- made it real easy to take the plunge and get it (less than $8, shipping included ;)) Looking forward to reading it!

Bye Bye, Cedeno. Good riddance. not a CedenoFan?

I know there have been thread about this, but without a search function or a reasonable attention span, I've been unable to find them. So... I'm looking for books about baseball. I finally finished Moneyball recently. I understand full well that Moneyball is not flawless and am somewhat familiar with some readers' problems with it. But the fact is, Moneyball opened my eyes about baseball further than anything else had, and now I want to learn more. I'm looking for resources that aren't simply statbooks, or entirely articles. I'm looking for good, interesting stat-based analysis, I guess, of strategies, common perceptions about the game, and so on. I can't tell if Bill James' annual handbook is what I'm looking for or not. I have "Baseball Between the Numbers" ready to go in my Amazon cart. Baseball Prospectus 2007 looks too fantasy-oriented to me. And The Hardball Times has a few annuals they've released, but I can't tell what kind of information they present -- I've read bits and pieces from their website, though, if my memory is correct. (I should note, my understanding about these books is limited to Amazon's descriptions, so I'd appreciate feedback on these specific titles). So, any recommendations from the list above (or, of course, not on the list)? I would particularly like to know why a good baseball book is good; not just that it's "a good read." I'm not interested in a lovefest Ripken bio or an anecdotal "Three Nights in August" type thing... Much thanks for any feedback, and sorry mods, maybe this isn't the place for this thread (?)

Seems pretty safe to assume that KW wasn't proposing that as a straight-up trade. Contreras would simply be a salary-balancer. And it's the Orioles. Gave up Jorge Julio and John Maine fro Kris Benson . . . might as well see if they'd like Contreras. It was an offer, anyways. Of course KW will start by including Jose -- he'd almost be silly not to. edit: imagine if Hendry tried to unload Marquis on the Birds for Miggy... sure it's not a great final offer. But I know myself and others would applaud the effort and appreciate it as, at least, a starting point.

Would he have to pass through all the AL teams first? Or just the ones with a worse record than us? No AL teams at all, just the NL teams with a worse record than the Cubs. No, AL teams could be involved. NL teams just have priority since Dunn is in the NL.

I would have liked a Stairs deal in July (would love it right about now, in retrospect). But I agree, the waiver process will not be our friend in acquiring him...

Joba coming up anyway . . . link Good Luck Joba! show them Yankees some Husker Power!! http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/images/2006/06/03/5bFRPr8f.jpg

That is actually a hilarious statement. :lol: i think so too. But when used as a positive analysis of a baseball player, by a professional baseball analyst, it makes me cringe.

that's a bold statement . . . this game has had some real characters.