Dodger offer to Furcal........

[JeffH]

I believe it's Braves or Cubs, unless the Dodgers come up with a guaranteed fourth year at $12-$13 PLUS some sort of easily vested fifth year option.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Three years in Dodger Stadium is a good way to ensure that your next contract isn't worth more than $11m/2yrs plus the cost and hassle of finding another home.

 

If I were the Cubs right now, I'd be pretty scared they're about to get burnt. The $50m/5yr offer should never have been made, and it should be withdrawn right now in case Furcal uses his common sense.

 

The Cubs ought to have long ago turned their attentions to addressing the outfield via trade, entrusting the shortstop position to young Ronny. The Cubs need a big bat this off-season, and it makes a lot more sense to get one that plays a position where you currently have no viable internal options and where positional premiums do not apply.

 

The Cubs can take their team a whole lot further by pursuing the best right fielder they can get, and not the best shortstop.

 

What evidence do you have that they have not inquired about OF through trade?

 

FYI, Expect alot to happen via trade this week during the GM meetings. Not just the Cubs, but many teams.

[CubinNY]

What evidence do you have that they have not inquired about OF through trade?

 

FYI, Expect alot to happen via trade this week during the GM meetings. Not just the Cubs, but many teams.

 

It physically impossible to present evidence that something didn't happen. It is only possible to present evidence that something did happen.

[cubbyvirus00]

The problem, is there are NO FA OF's, right now worth any value. The Cubs have plenty of money to spend anyway. Why not sign Furcal, then get an OF via trade?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The problem, is there are NO FA OF's, right now worth any value. The Cubs have plenty of money to spend anyway. Why not sign Furcal, then get an OF via trade?

 

Plenty of money? Not when you throw 3M at Eyre, 4M at Howry, 3M at Rusch, and 3M at Neifi. Throw in Furcal at 10-13M and we're looking at Jockstrap Jones or Burnitz.

[cubbyvirus00]

I'd say the Cubs might be inclined to up payroll, if its a can't miss opprotunity.(sp).

 

Thing is, beggers can't be choosers, and we're getting to the point of desperation. If Furcal doesn't sign, we're in deep trouble at the leadoff spot. Walker/Murton have good OBP, but speed would be most beneficial.

[USSoccer]

What evidence do you have that they have not inquired about OF through trade?

 

FYI, Expect alot to happen via trade this week during the GM meetings. Not just the Cubs, but many teams.

 

It physically impossible to present evidence that something didn't happen. It is only possible to present evidence that something did happen.

 

You know, last year people were critical of the Cubs being relatively inactive, and people said the exact same thing as TBCF. How did that work out?

 

A pattern is a pattern. I'll remain skeptical until Hendry ACTUALLY addresses the single biggest need on this team, and with all respect to Eyre and Hwory, they weren't it.

[USSoccer]

I'd say the Cubs might be inclined to up payroll, if its a can't miss opprotunity.(sp).

 

Thing is, beggers can't be choosers, and we're getting to the point of desperation. If Furcal doesn't sign, we're in deep trouble at the leadoff spot. Walker/Murton have good OBP, but speed would be most beneficial.

 

First of all, Murton has very good speed. Second of all, why is speed all that critical? Wallker isn't Aramis-slow, and it's not like Dusty is big on using the hit and run anyway, so why not put Walker/Murton 1-2? It's the best possible OBP combo we have.

[E.J.]

For what it's worth, Levine was on ESPN 1000 this morning and said these were the offers on the table for Furcal:

 

Dodgers - 3 years, $36 million

Braves - 4 years. $32 million

Cubs - 5 years, $47 million

 

A little less that what's been reported. Taken with a grain of salt of course.

 

He also said this whole fiasco could drag out into the winter meetings.

[cubbyvirus00]

Soccer, that situation while it may be decent, Murton is still unproven in the minds of the majority.

 

The kid needs a good full season of experience, to even be thrown into the mix of such a role.

 

I'd rather have Murton bat 6th or 7th, and soak in the experience and feeling of a full-time player in the MLB, rather then fully depending on him to reach base 3-4 times out of every 10 ABs. Its too early for that.

[USSoccer]

Soccer, that situation while it may be decent, Murton is still unproven in the minds of the majority.

 

The kid needs a good full season of experience, to even be thrown into the mix of such a role.

 

I'd rather have Murton bat 6th or 7th, and soak in the experience and feeling of a full-time player in the MLB, rather then fully depending on him to reach base 3-4 times out of every 10 ABs. Its too early for that.

 

It's not like he had only 50 AB's in September to look at. He had 150 AB's from which to draw on. That's more than enough time for at least his own division to get the book on him. I'd personally try him hitting 2nd. It's not like he won't see good pitches, with Lee and ARam behind him. He has a good eye and good plate discipline. Those are traits that don't slump.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Soccer, that situation while it may be decent, Murton is still unproven in the minds of the majority.

 

The kid needs a good full season of experience, to even be thrown into the mix of such a role.

 

I'd rather have Murton bat 6th or 7th, and soak in the experience and feeling of a full-time player in the MLB, rather then fully depending on him to reach base 3-4 times out of every 10 ABs. Its too early for that.

 

Well, if we're going to go with the experience argument, Grady Sizemore had 138 ML AB in 2004 before taking the leadoff spot in 2005. Murton had 140 ML AB this last season.

 

Plate discipline doesn't fly out the window b/c of a lack of experience, and Murton has better plate discipline than Sizemore does.

[cubbyvirus00]

Batting him second is definitely more doable.

 

 

I'd personally like to see an experienced, proven playoff vet in the leadoff hole for the next 5 years. As a fan I hate worrying about finding one in the off-season, and thats why I'd throw a 5 year 50 mill contract to Furcal np.

[erik316wttn]

13 a year....no way. On to plan B.

 

They'd better bring back Nomar if Furcal is going to demand that type of money.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

13 a year....no way. On to plan B.

 

They'd better bring back Nomar if Furcal is going to demand that type of money.

 

No team in MLB wants Nomar to play SS. That should tell us something. The only place he'd fit is 2B (since 1B and 3B are filled for us), which is just about as physically strenuous. It's just not going to work.

[Mizzou]

13 a year....no way. On to plan B.

 

They'd better bring back Nomar if Furcal is going to demand that type of money.

 

No team in MLB wants Nomar to play SS. That should tell us something. The only place he'd fit is 2B (since 1B and 3B are filled for us), which is just about as physically strenuous. It's just not going to work.

 

I think it tells us that most teams are already set at SS more than anything else. I'd like to see Nomar given a one year deal, with Cedeno backing him up. Doubt it'll happen though.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The Braves could have any one of the following at SS in the future:

 

Wilson Betemit

Yunel Escobar---Top SS prospect

Tony Pena, Jr

Mauel Rodriguez

 

The Dodgers could have any one of the following at SS in the future:

 

Jesus Soto

Shane Justis

Chin-lung Hu

Tony Abreu

Joel Guzman---Top SS prospect

 

--------------------------------

 

The Cubs---outside of Ronnie Cedeno---have no SS of the future, no SS that could challenge Furcal within 2 yrs, if not the duration of the rumored 5 yr deal. So that's is appealing, knowing he would be the SS for the Cubs without question, and without a legit contender. The Braves and the Dodgers have legit SS depth, and it's likely Furcal doesn't finish out his contract if he went to Atl, or LA. So...imo, I think Furcal takes the Cubs offer, because no stiff competition for SS, and because of the yrs.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I think it tells us that most teams are already set at SS more than anything else. I'd like to see Nomar given a one year deal, with Cedeno backing him up. Doubt it'll happen though.

 

Yeah, it tells us that teams don't view Nomar as a SS, anymore.

 

RF with the Indians,

1B with the Orioles

3B with the Dodgers or Pirates

DH with the Twins/A's

CF with the D'backs/Red Sox.

 

And while most of the teams have an established SS, the ONLY team that doesn't---the Twins---want him as a DH. That tells you what GM's around think about Nomar's chances at staying at SS.

[rsmoler]

Speaking of youth at the leadoff spot, if I'm not mistaken, we got to the playoffs in 1989 with Jerome Walton leading off and Dwight Smith batting second. Both players finished 1-2 in the rookie of the year balloting. If I recall, neither one of these players was a speed demon either, although they both had nice speed. Walton stole 24 bases and Smith stole 9. It just goes to show, with the right players, having youth at the top of the line-up can work.

[Hosak8]

The problem, is there are NO FA OF's, right now worth any value. The Cubs have plenty of money to spend anyway. Why not sign Furcal, then get an OF via trade?

 

Plenty of money? Not when you throw 3M at Eyre, 4M at Howry, 3M at Rusch, and 3M at Neifi. Throw in Furcal at 10-13M and we're looking at Jockstrap Jones or Burnitz.

 

Your numbers are off, according to Cot's Contracts. Your numbers account for 13 Million. Cot has the numbers at 2.5 for Howry, 2.7 for Eyre, 2.5 for Neifi, and 2.75 for Rusch. That is 10.45 million. 2.5 million is nothing to sneeze at.

[Blueheart05]

Atlanta Journal Constitution writer David O'Brien was just on The Score. He said he spoke with Furcal's agent earlier today and Rafael is apparently torn between the Dodgers and Cubs. He likes the idea of having the opportunity to be a FA after three years. The Cubs deal does not provide a year three option... O'Brien suggested that the Cubs increase their offer by at least a million a year to compete.

 

I agree with O'Brien. The Cubs have already committed approximately 50MM so it makes no sense to lose out on this deal for an extra million or so dollars. I would also restructure the purposal so that there can be a player option for year 3. At this point, who cares if it's 50MM or 55MM? Just get it done so we dont have to concern ourselves with plan B (which has no guarantees and will require losing talent from the organization). What do you think?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Atlanta Journal Constitution writer David O'Brien was just on The Score. He said he spoke with Furcal's agent earlier today and Rafael is apparently torn between the Dodgers and Cubs. He likes the idea of having the opportunity to be a FA after three years. The Cubs deal does not provide a year three option... O'Brien suggested that the Cubs increase their offer by at least a million a year to compete.

 

I agree with O'Brien. The Cubs have already committed approximately 50MM so it makes no sense to lose out on this deal for an extra million or so dollars. I would also restructure the purposal so that there can be a player option for year 3. At this point, who cares if it's 50MM or 55MM? Just get it done so we dont have to concern ourselves with plan B (which has no guarantees and will require losing talent from the organization). What do you think?

 

How do we know that the Cubs weren't only going to commit 8 mil a year to Furcal, and upped the offer to 50 million to deal with the competition? I don't like the idea of giving Furcal 50 or 55 mil, but I won't go nuts if it happens. That said, Furcal isn't so great a must-have that we should up the offer to these proportions to outbid the Dodgers for his services?

[Backtobanks]

I think it tells us that most teams are already set at SS more than anything else. I'd like to see Nomar given a one year deal, with Cedeno backing him up. Doubt it'll happen though.

 

Yeah, it tells us that teams don't view Nomar as a SS, anymore.

 

RF with the Indians,1B with the Orioles

3B with the Dodgers or Pirates

DH with the Twins/A's

CF with the D'backs/Red Sox.

 

And while most of the teams have an established SS, the ONLY team that doesn't---the Twins---want him as a DH. That tells you what GM's around think about Nomar's chances at staying at SS.

 

I couldn't believe that when I read it. The Indians really think he can play RF when most teams laughed at him trying to throw sidearm from LF.

[Blueheart05]

Atlanta Journal Constitution writer David O'Brien was just on The Score. He said he spoke with Furcal's agent earlier today and Rafael is apparently torn between the Dodgers and Cubs. He likes the idea of having the opportunity to be a FA after three years. The Cubs deal does not provide a year three option... O'Brien suggested that the Cubs increase their offer by at least a million a year to compete.

 

I agree with O'Brien. The Cubs have already committed approximately 50MM so it makes no sense to lose out on this deal for an extra million or so dollars. I would also restructure the purposal so that there can be a player option for year 3. At this point, who cares if it's 50MM or 55MM? Just get it done so we dont have to concern ourselves with plan B (which has no guarantees and will require losing talent from the organization). What do you think?

 

How do we know that the Cubs weren't only going to commit 8 mil a year to Furcal, and upped the offer to 50 million to deal with the competition? I don't like the idea of giving Furcal 50 or 55 mil, but I won't go nuts if it happens. That said, Furcal isn't so great a must-have that we should up the offer to these proportions to outbid the Dodgers for his services?

 

The Cubs supposedly offered 5/50 before the Dodgers came into the picture. Again, they've gone this far so I don't see why they should fold if the deal can get done for an extra million a year.

[Careless]

The problem, is there are NO FA OF's, right now worth any value. The Cubs have plenty of money to spend anyway. Why not sign Furcal, then get an OF via trade?

 

Plenty of money? Not when you throw 3M at Eyre, 4M at Howry, 3M at Rusch, and 3M at Neifi. Throw in Furcal at 10-13M and we're looking at Jockstrap Jones or Burnitz.

 

Your numbers are off, according to Cot's Contracts. Your numbers account for 13 Million. Cot has the numbers at 2.5 for Howry, 2.7 for Eyre, 2.5 for Neifi, and 2.75 for Rusch. That is 10.45 million. 2.5 million is nothing to sneeze at.

I have no idea about the non-neifi signing bonuses, but you can't forget his million