From the Score (I know, I know):

[USSoccer]

I was reading something on FanHome, and this is what this one guy posted:

 

"Headline: Marlins continue housecleaning as Pierre and Mota are next to go.

 

On the heals of trading Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, and Carlos Delgado, the Marlins are at it again.

 

The Florida Marlins along with the Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Yankees have agreed on an eight player trade involving Juan Pierre, Guillermo Mota, Milton Bradley, and Carl Pavano.

 

The Florida Marlins have traded outfielder Juan Pierre to the Los Angeles Dodgers and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota to the New York Yankees. In return Florida receives pitchers DJ Houlton and Yhency Brazoban, and minor league outfielder Delwyn Young from Los Angeles, along with minor league outfielder, Melky Cabrera, from New York.

 

Maligned outfielder Milton Bradley goes to New York, and former Marlin, Carl Pavano goes to Los Angeles. The Yankees are set to send LA 3.4 million of Pavano’s contract for 2006, and 4.6 million for 2007. Pavano is set to make 8.0 million in ’06, 10.0 million in ’07, 11.0 million in ’08. and 13.0 million in ’09 (with a team option for a 1.95 million dollar buyout). According to General Manager, Larry Beinfest, this is done deal, despite pending approval by the commissioner’s office."

 

 

there was no link in the thread, but here is a link to the actual thread

http://mb7.scout.com/fbaseballfrm2.showMessage?topicID=4326.topic

 

That's an awfully detailed post if it's a rumor.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I was reading something on FanHome, and this is what this one guy posted:

 

"Headline: Marlins continue housecleaning as Pierre and Mota are next to go.

 

On the heals of trading Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, and Carlos Delgado, the Marlins are at it again.

 

The Florida Marlins along with the Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Yankees have agreed on an eight player trade involving Juan Pierre, Guillermo Mota, Milton Bradley, and Carl Pavano.

 

The Florida Marlins have traded outfielder Juan Pierre to the Los Angeles Dodgers and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota to the New York Yankees. In return Florida receives pitchers DJ Houlton and Yhency Brazoban, and minor league outfielder Delwyn Young from Los Angeles, along with minor league outfielder, Melky Cabrera, from New York.

 

Maligned outfielder Milton Bradley goes to New York, and former Marlin, Carl Pavano goes to Los Angeles. The Yankees are set to send LA 3.4 million of Pavano’s contract for 2006, and 4.6 million for 2007. Pavano is set to make 8.0 million in ’06, 10.0 million in ’07, 11.0 million in ’08. and 13.0 million in ’09 (with a team option for a 1.95 million dollar buyout). According to General Manager, Larry Beinfest, this is done deal, despite pending approval by the commissioner’s office."

 

 

there was no link in the thread, but here is a link to the actual thread

http://mb7.scout.com/fbaseballfrm2.showMessage?topicID=4326.topic

 

That's an awfully detailed post if it's a rumor.

 

The guy said he read it on another post from a Miami paper, I'm trying to find it now.

[goonys evil twin]

seriously though, spoiled brat Cubs fans?

 

 

This is hilarious. It's like depression era people calling ethiopians overfed in the 80s.

 

Spoiled? You feel spoiled by an 88, 89 an 79 win season? Do you feel obligated to give some of those wins back? I mean geez, those poor Pirates didn't come close to that, I feel like an Enron executive with all this pillaging.

 

Spoiled. My goodness. A century of ineptness does wonders to lower some standards.

[Drew Doughty]

Pierre lead-off hitter? yes. Good lead-off hitter? no.

 

Get Castillo instead or rework the deal to include Patterson or Walker to get Castillo.

 

Why no re-work the deal to get both say, Patterson, Walker and Pinto for Castillo and Pierre?

 

Florida is dumping payroll like a bad girlfriend. They won't want Walker or Patterson at their salaries. They want prospects.

 

Then you eat the contracts of one of them.

[FloridaCubbie]

I was reading something on FanHome, and this is what this one guy posted:

 

"Headline: Marlins continue housecleaning as Pierre and Mota are next to go.

 

On the heals of trading Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, and Carlos Delgado, the Marlins are at it again.

 

The Florida Marlins along with the Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Yankees have agreed on an eight player trade involving Juan Pierre, Guillermo Mota, Milton Bradley, and Carl Pavano.

 

The Florida Marlins have traded outfielder Juan Pierre to the Los Angeles Dodgers and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota to the New York Yankees. In return Florida receives pitchers DJ Houlton and Yhency Brazoban, and minor league outfielder Delwyn Young from Los Angeles, along with minor league outfielder, Melky Cabrera, from New York.

 

Maligned outfielder Milton Bradley goes to New York, and former Marlin, Carl Pavano goes to Los Angeles. The Yankees are set to send LA 3.4 million of Pavano’s contract for 2006, and 4.6 million for 2007. Pavano is set to make 8.0 million in ’06, 10.0 million in ’07, 11.0 million in ’08. and 13.0 million in ’09 (with a team option for a 1.95 million dollar buyout). According to General Manager, Larry Beinfest, this is done deal, despite pending approval by the commissioner’s office."

 

 

there was no link in the thread, but here is a link to the actual thread

http://mb7.scout.com/fbaseballfrm2.showMessage?topicID=4326.topic

 

That's an awfully detailed post if it's a rumor.

 

The guy said he read it on another post from a Miami paper, I'm trying to find it now.

It's Bogus.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-marlins&msg=11015.1&ctx=0

[USSoccer]

Pierre lead-off hitter? yes. Good lead-off hitter? no.

 

Get Castillo instead or rework the deal to include Patterson or Walker to get Castillo.

 

Why no re-work the deal to get both say, Patterson, Walker and Pinto for Castillo and Pierre?

 

Florida is dumping payroll like a bad girlfriend. They won't want Walker or Patterson at their salaries. They want prospects.

 

Then you eat the contracts of one of them.

 

Are you kidding me? That would not make economic sense. I'd rather keep Walker as the 2B at his low cost, fill the CF role with Pierre and have Corey as a 4th OF than take a chance on Castillo's health plus eating a contract for one of the guys you trade.

[CUBZ99]

Steve Stone coming up :shock:

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Steve Stone coming up to talk baseball :shock:

 

In other words, Steve Stone coming up to here himself talk.

 

"Hey everyone, I know baseball, I want to be a GM... Look at me... I look good...real good"

[Diffusion]

Regarding the main arguments in support of trading for Pierre at a price that includes Pinto and two other minor leaguers...

 

1) We could do a lot worse than Pierre, he's not that bad

 

We most certainly could do a lot worse than Pierre. But, on the other hand, we could almost certainly also do a lot better, or we could do similarly, but at a far more reasonable cost. As a team with World Series ambitions and the money to fund those ambitions, settling for mediocrity should be a last resort, and we even then we should try and avoid paying over the odds for it.

 

2) Pierre will be better than what we had in centre field last year.

 

And that too is certainly true. However, you could stick Neifi Perez out there in centre field and get better production that we got from our centre fielders last year. No, really: Cubs CF hit .234/.281/.362 in 2005. Neifi hit .274/.298/.383. As a result, better production than what we got last year isn't in itself a qualification. No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position. That'd ensure a juggernaut lineup. And the average NL centre-fielder last year hit .275/.340/.437. Those are the numbers that the Cubs really ought to be looking to trump. Sadly, it's going to require a really great Pierre season for him to get his on-base percentage far enough above .340 to compensate for his complete lack of power and below par defence.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Diffusion

[ThePenguin11]

seriously though, spoiled brat Cubs fans?

 

 

This is hilarious. It's like depression era people calling ethiopians overfed in the 80s.

 

Spoiled? You feel spoiled by an 88, 89 an 79 win season? Do you feel obligated to give some of those wins back? I mean geez, those poor Pirates didn't come close to that, I feel like an Enron executive with all this pillaging.

 

Spoiled. My goodness. A century of ineptness does wonders to lower some standards.

 

I'm not saying I'm content with their lack of success. I'm saying look at this team now. There are studs all over the field compared to the crap that used to take the field. I don't blame hendry for any of this. The buck stops at the desk of Dusty Baker. He's had the players all along. Every year this team gets better and he finds a way to burn them out and get the least out of them. Think about the group of misfits who won the wild card in '98. Led by Morandini, Gaetti, Henry Rodriquez and Hernandez (and of course Sosa) and a rag tag bunch of arms the Cubs had more success than this team with an enormous amount of talent. Put Bobby Cox in charge of these guys and you're not complaining about finishing 4th in the Central. It's on Baker, not Hendry.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I was reading something on FanHome, and this is what this one guy posted:

 

"Headline: Marlins continue housecleaning as Pierre and Mota are next to go.

 

On the heals of trading Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, and Carlos Delgado, the Marlins are at it again.

 

The Florida Marlins along with the Los Angeles Dodgers and the New York Yankees have agreed on an eight player trade involving Juan Pierre, Guillermo Mota, Milton Bradley, and Carl Pavano.

 

The Florida Marlins have traded outfielder Juan Pierre to the Los Angeles Dodgers and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota to the New York Yankees. In return Florida receives pitchers DJ Houlton and Yhency Brazoban, and minor league outfielder Delwyn Young from Los Angeles, along with minor league outfielder, Melky Cabrera, from New York.

 

Maligned outfielder Milton Bradley goes to New York, and former Marlin, Carl Pavano goes to Los Angeles. The Yankees are set to send LA 3.4 million of Pavano’s contract for 2006, and 4.6 million for 2007. Pavano is set to make 8.0 million in ’06, 10.0 million in ’07, 11.0 million in ’08. and 13.0 million in ’09 (with a team option for a 1.95 million dollar buyout). According to General Manager, Larry Beinfest, this is done deal, despite pending approval by the commissioner’s office."

 

 

there was no link in the thread, but here is a link to the actual thread

http://mb7.scout.com/fbaseballfrm2.showMessage?topicID=4326.topic

 

That's an awfully detailed post if it's a rumor.

 

The guy said he read it on another post from a Miami paper, I'm trying to find it now.

It's Bogus.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-marlins&msg=11015.1&ctx=0

 

ah, sorry guys.

[rocket]

No, really: Cubs CF hit .234/.281/.362 in 2005. Neifi hit .274/.298/.383. As a result, better production than what we got last year isn't in itself a qualification. No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position.

 

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

[ThePenguin11]

No, really: Cubs CF hit .234/.281/.362 in 2005. Neifi hit .274/.298/.383. As a result, better production than what we got last year isn't in itself a qualification. No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position.

 

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

 

So the NL All-star team then?

[sonicdethmonkey0]

seriously though, spoiled brat Cubs fans?

 

 

This is hilarious. It's like depression era people calling ethiopians overfed in the 80s.

 

Spoiled? You feel spoiled by an 88, 89 an 79 win season? Do you feel obligated to give some of those wins back? I mean geez, those poor Pirates didn't come close to that, I feel like an Enron executive with all this pillaging.

 

Spoiled. My goodness. A century of ineptness does wonders to lower some standards.

 

I'm not saying I'm content with their lack of success. I'm saying look at this team now. There are studs all over the field compared to the crap that used to take the field. I don't blame hendry for any of this. The buck stops at the desk of Dusty Baker. He's had the players all along. Every year this team gets better and he finds a way to burn them out and get the least out of them. Think about the group of misfits who won the wild card in '98. Led by Morandini, Gaetti, Henry Rodriquez and Hernandez (and of course Sosa) and a rag tag bunch of arms the Cubs had more success than this team with an enormous amount of talent. Put Bobby Cox in charge of these guys and you're not complaining about finishing 4th in the Central. It's on Baker, not Hendry.

 

hendry hired baker. hendry could've fired baker. hendry has wasted money on garbage like neifi perez and scott eyre. hendry is the one pursuing juan pierre and jock jones instead of brad wilkerson and brian giles. sorry, hendry gets a lot of the blame too.

[YearofDaCubs]

Pinto and two others for Pierre? Little expensive but whatever as long as Pierre is one of the pieces to get us out of mediocrity. I still want to see some power in the OF more so now than ever.

[USSoccer]

No, really: Cubs CF hit .234/.281/.362 in 2005. Neifi hit .274/.298/.383. As a result, better production than what we got last year isn't in itself a qualification. No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position.

 

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

 

Looking at what we have right now, we're going to get better than average production at C, 1B, 2B and 3B. Murton in LF should be better than league average. It comes down to SS, CF and LF. Pierre in CF would be good for lineup construction and it saves money to get an impact RF via trade.

 

Instead of making Furcal your #1 signing, now you can get in the Manny game, or bid on Abreu, or look again at Giles.

 

If trading for Pierre is the marquee move this winter, and we sign trash to play RF, it's a bad move, but if it leads to getting a real good RF and playing Cedeno at SS, then it's a pretty good move.

[CubinNY]

All these moves and they still haven't addressed the crator in right field.

 

If they get Piere then they have to go after Giles or trade for Abreu.

[Guest]

Regarding the main arguments in support of trading for Pierre at a price that includes Pinto and two other minor leaguers...

 

1) We could do a lot worse than Pierre, he's not that bad

 

We most certainly could do a lot worse than Pierre. But, on the other hand, we could almost certainly also do a lot better, or we could do similarly, but at a far more reasonable cost. As a team with World Series ambitions and the money to fund those ambitions, settling for mediocrity should be a last resort, and we even then we should try and avoid paying over the odds for it.

 

2) Pierre will be better than what we had in centre field last year.

 

And that too is certainly true. However, you could stick Neifi Perez out there in centre field and get better production that we got from our centre fielders last year. No, really: Cubs CF hit .234/.281/.362 in 2005. Neifi hit .274/.298/.383. As a result, better production than what we got last year isn't in itself a qualification. No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position. That'd ensure a juggernaut lineup. And the average NL centre-fielder last year hit .275/.340/.437. Those are the numbers that the Cubs really ought to be looking to trump. Sadly, it's going to require a really great Pierre season for him to get his on-base percentage far enough above .340 to compensate for his complete lack of power and below par defence.

Good points. What would really bother me about this trade is that there is reportedly a player available who would almost certainly put up (at least) league-average production: Milton Bradley. If the rumors are true, the Ddogers would also give him up for much less than the proposed price of Pierre. I wonder if Hendry has even considered Bradley for CF, or if the dreaded "C" word eliminated that option before it even got off the ground.

[USSoccer]

All these moves and they still haven't addressed the crator in right field.

 

If they get Piere then they have to go after Giles or trade for Abreu.

 

Agreed 100%. If this move goes through it will be judged based on what they do next.

[ThePenguin11]

seriously though, spoiled brat Cubs fans?

 

 

This is hilarious. It's like depression era people calling ethiopians overfed in the 80s.

 

Spoiled? You feel spoiled by an 88, 89 an 79 win season? Do you feel obligated to give some of those wins back? I mean geez, those poor Pirates didn't come close to that, I feel like an Enron executive with all this pillaging.

 

Spoiled. My goodness. A century of ineptness does wonders to lower some standards.

 

I'm not saying I'm content with their lack of success. I'm saying look at this team now. There are studs all over the field compared to the crap that used to take the field. I don't blame hendry for any of this. The buck stops at the desk of Dusty Baker. He's had the players all along. Every year this team gets better and he finds a way to burn them out and get the least out of them. Think about the group of misfits who won the wild card in '98. Led by Morandini, Gaetti, Henry Rodriquez and Hernandez (and of course Sosa) and a rag tag bunch of arms the Cubs had more success than this team with an enormous amount of talent. Put Bobby Cox in charge of these guys and you're not complaining about finishing 4th in the Central. It's on Baker, not Hendry.

 

hendry hired baker. hendry could've fired baker. hendry has wasted money on garbage like neifi perez and scott eyre. hendry is the one pursuing juan pierre and jock jones instead of brad wilkerson and brian giles. sorry, hendry gets a lot of the blame too.

 

Oh, I didn't realize that Washington was champing at the bit to rid themselves of Brad Wilkerson. He's not available. And I didn't realize Giles wasn't in his mid-30's asking for $10 Million+per year. I stand corrected. Hendry's totally foolish for not aqcuiring the unaqcuirable and not overpaying for an aging outfielder. Giles is worth no more than 3 years / $24 Million.

[YearofDaCubs]

Levine just reported the WSox have no interest in Pierre...

[ShawonOmeter12]

i just dont see why people think we can get ryan,giles,burnett,furcal etc. this is not fantasy baseball and i for one do not think that an old giles is worth 10 million a year. i for one am happy with how the offseason is going so far. i havent really heard of anyone besides the yankees interested in paying giles price. Edited November 23, 2005 by ShawonOmeter12

[JeffH]

No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position.

 

Now, there's an exaggeration.

[RynoRules]

Levine just reported the WSox have no interest in Pierre...

 

If that is accurate it contradicts a statement he made to Mac, Jurko and Harry earlier today. I think we can conclude that:

 

1) Levine is on drugs;

2) Levine is hoplessly incompetent; or

3) There are actually two Levines. Ooooooooohhhhh.... :-k

[David]

No, really: Cubs CF hit .234/.281/.362 in 2005. Neifi hit .274/.298/.383. As a result, better production than what we got last year isn't in itself a qualification. No, what the Cubs really need is better than league average production at every single position.

 

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

 

So the NL All-star team then?

 

Since when does "better than league average" mean "All-star?"