Howry signs with Cubs (yes, it's official)

[CubinNY]

Just because E&H are added to O&W does not mean the Cubs Zen master will not overwork any one of them.

 

Nor does adding Pierre and Furcal necessarily mean that RumDum will not bat Neifi second.

 

It does greatly lower the odds, though.

 

NOTE: NOT RELATED IN ANYWAY TO THIS THREAD

 

 

That is awsome that you used the phrase RumDum". Tim Robbins wrote and produced an off Broadway play called Embedded. It was a satire of the lead up to and eventual excursion into Iraq. The Secratary of Defense was named RumDum.

 

SORRY FOR THE HIJACK.

 

Carry on.

Edited November 22, 2005 by CubinNY

[Lefty]

Hawkins wasn't signed to be the closer. And I personally don't believe in the whole closer thing anyway although Hawkins pushed my beliefs quite a bit.

.

There was a LOT of talk about hawkins being the closer immediately after he was signed and for the rest of the offseason and early in the season right up until he actually became closer. It was something that everyone gave thought to, unlike this time where at least one of us (me) isn't thinking about it.

 

Borowski was the closer. Hawkins set him up until Borowski's suckage could no longer be ignored (and then Borowski admitted that his arm was taped on).

 

As a matter of interest, those who talked about Hawkins closing before the season began are the same ones who like these signing(s). That's not a criticism, but a mindset.

[Lefty]

 

Define "implosion." If Dempster just su-ks, but converts 80% of his saves because that's what happens, and Baker keeps trotting him out there to "protect" three-run leads, are we better off?

 

This thread could be expanded if we sign Howry. $13 million a year for 3 years for Dempster, Eyre and Howry?

[Southpaw191679666239]

.. unless Dempster implodes, which I don't forsee happening.

 

Define "implosion." If Dempster just su-ks, but converts 80% of his saves because that's what happens, and Baker keeps trotting him out there to "protect" three-run leads, are we better off?

 

Converting just 1-2 of his first 10 save opportunities would be an implosion, imho.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Three years of sustained success isn't enough?

 

Can't anyone look beyond the one stat of ERA in '04 to gain a more complete picture of Eyre?

 

Come on. Look through the thread, I've gone to WHIP, K/BB and in previous threads more than that to make my case about Eyre. Eyre in 2005 was great. He had a WHIP near 1, OPS against under 600, 2.5 K/BB, etc. Aside from that, there's not a whole lot to be impressed about IMO. 2003-2004 he was about 1.4 WHIP, near 700 OPS against, K/BB under 2, etc. Those numbers are similar(K/BB, WHIP) or marginally better(OPS against, K/9) than the rest of his career as a reliever, which is far from stellar. Furthermore, and probably most importantly, we gave him three years. Almost 1100 days. The Cubs will play almost 500 games in that span. When Eyre's contract runs out we'll be voting for another president. For a middle reliever that's never had more than one year of production that would be deserving of 3-4 million a year, that's terrible. If we gave Eyre 1 year 3-4 mil, or 1+ an option, I wouldn't be upset, since you're taking the gamble he can sustain it. I may be upset about how much they're paying for a gamble, but ultimately it's not a terrible move. Giving that same gamble 3 guaranteed years when he's 32 years old and you aren't in dire straits for a LH reliever? Unacceptable IMO.

I apologize for missing your use of stats earlier in this thread. It is true that his WHIP in '03 and his ERA in '04 were not inspiring.

 

That said, it seems we are looking at the same stats and interpreting them differently. I see a pitcher who at the age of 30 was finally diagnosed with ADHD and his first treatments (drugs and life management changes) began during the 2002 season. Since that time, Eyre has steadily improved without regressing at all. And if we look beyond his WHIP in '03 and his ERA in '04, the other numbers show a different story and I believe a more complete picture of Scott Eyre.

 

Each year since receiving treatment, his K/BB ratio has improved. Each year his H/IP ratio has improved. Each year his walks per inning has improved. Each year his WHIP improved. Each year his AVG/OBP/SLG against righties and lefties improved, finally culminating in an excellent campaign last season.

 

Is there reason to believe that he may regress a little? Sure. Is there also reason to believe that his regression will still have him get lefties out to the tune of .200/.241/.390 like he did in '04? Yes. If he regresses against righties to somewhere in between his '04 and '05 performances against them, I think you'll be quite pleased. But there is also reason to think he may not regress. Given that he has improved every season since being diagnosed, the main reason we expect him to regress is that it is difficult to imagine him improving upon last season. And thats a good thing.

 

What evidence do you have that suggests the trend I clearly outlined will suddenly reverse?

 

I guess it's a difference of opinion. I don't see a trend of improvement, especially when compared to the rest of his relieving career. 2003 was a bad year, 2004 was okay(slightly better than his career), and 2005 was great. His peripherals in 2003-2004 aren't that different, from each other or from his career marks. That's why 2005 is the fluke to me, and if he regresses to his 2004 marks, he's not worth the contract IMO.

 

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

That's not what anyone argued. The difference between Ohman/Wuertz and Eyre/Howry isn't worth the millions.

 

Whether or not you like the Eyre signing and the potential Howry signing, this really isn't a valid argument.

 

We're not replacing O&W with E&H. We're adding the two. If there's one thing the last few years have shown us is that having your manager trust only a portion of your bullpen is death. Those guys get overworked and, ultimately, cooked. Then you've got no effective pitchers down there.

 

If you don't like the acquisitions, argue the money or their inconsistent track records.

 

I meant the difference between having a bp as a whole with just ohman/wuertz and eyre/howry/ohman/wuertz. i didn't think that needed to be spelled out as it is logical (since we already have wuertz and ohman).

 

oh, and i have argued the money and inconsistent track records. =P my point is that money could have been spent elsewhere to better effect as we have plenty of decent arms making the league minimum. if we have to use hill as a LOOGY, so be it.

 

the biggest problem isn't the money. it's the years eyre and howry (supposedly) are getting. we're playing with fire.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[goonys evil twin]

.. unless Dempster implodes, which I don't forsee happening.

 

Define "implosion." If Dempster just su-ks, but converts 80% of his saves because that's what happens, and Baker keeps trotting him out there to "protect" three-run leads, are we better off?

 

Converting just 1-2 of his first 10 save opportunities would be an implosion, imho.

 

Or converting his first 8 save opportunities but doing so with an abysmal ERA and peripheral numbers. Save % doesn't tell you much about how the guy is pitching, or how he's likely to pitch in the future.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry had an unbelieveably lucky season. However, we have a GM and staff that has no idea what the acronym "BABIP" stands for or why it is important.

 

In 2004, Cleveland had one of the worst pens in the majors - for much of the year it was ranked as one of the worst ever. In 2005, they had one of the strongest pen in the majors.

 

It was mainly the same guys.

 

Spending big money on the pen doesn't make sense unless you spend REALLY big money on the pen. And even that doesn't work very well. Most successful pens are built from home-grown guys, astute waiver-wire pickups and cheap FA's. Big money bullpens have a distinct tendency to be mediocre.

 

Great, you sit around and wait for Todd Wellemeyer and Roberto Novoa and Cliff Bartosh to figure it out and have a "high BABIP" year. Me, I won't be holding my breath. I like my odds better on going with guys that have at least shown they can have ML success, than guys who have never had any.

 

Or, we could use that money to sign someone like Ryan who's been lights out for a while, or trade for someone who's capable and we don't have to make a 3 year commitment to.

 

Not unless Dempster wants to set-up. Ryan says he wants to close, which is why the Yanks are not getting him.

 

Then let Ryan close.

[Southpaw191679666239]

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

 

Which reliever are you referring to? Eyre, whose contract is 2 yrs + option year, or the pending Howry deal?

[goonys evil twin]

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

 

Which reliever are you referring to? Eyre, whose contract is 2 yrs + option year, or the pending Howry deal?

 

Eyre's option is a player's option, which means it's almost certain to be exercised, which is a negative.

[E.J.]

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

 

Which reliever are you referring to? Eyre, whose contract is 2 yrs + option year, or the pending Howry deal?

 

I think he was talking about Eyre. Eyre's contract is a 2 year with a player option for the 3rd year with is pretty much the same as a guaranteed 3-year contract. Add in the fact that he got a NTC and you have to wonder what Hendry is smoking.

[Southpaw191679666239]

Or converting his first 8 save opportunities but doing so with an abysmal ERA and peripheral numbers. Save % doesn't tell you much about how the guy is pitching, or how he's likely to pitch in the future.

 

Yeah, but when your job is to get SAVES... and you don't, then you're not doing your job... period.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

 

Which reliever are you referring to? Eyre, whose contract is 2 yrs + option year, or the pending Howry deal?

 

not specking for CPatterson20, but...

 

Eyre's deal is worse than a 3 year deal. It's a player option for similar $ to the first couple years. The best case scenario is he performs above his paycheck and leaves after 2 years. The worst case scenario is he sucks for 2 years and picks up his option for another crappy year at top dollar.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

 

Which reliever are you referring to? Eyre, whose contract is 2 yrs + option year, or the pending Howry deal?

 

Specifically Eyre(see underlined), but it applies to both. Eyre has a player option, there's no way in the world he's going to turn that down. Howry's discussed deal has been for 3 years as well.

[Southpaw191679666239]

I think he was talking about Eyre. Eyre's contract is a 2 year with a player option for the 3rd year with is pretty much the same as a guaranteed 3-year contract. Add in the fact that he got a NTC and you have to wonder what Hendry is smoking.

 

It was reported that it is only for 2006.

[goonys evil twin]

So after all this, have we determined the answer to the question on the thread title is no, Howry hasn't signed?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think he was talking about Eyre. Eyre's contract is a 2 year with a player option for the 3rd year with is pretty much the same as a guaranteed 3-year contract. Add in the fact that he got a NTC and you have to wonder what Hendry is smoking.

 

It was reported that it is only for 2006.

 

The ESPN report says it goes beyond next year:

 

The contract also includes a no-trade clause for next season and a limited no-trade for 2007 and 2008 that allows him to block deals to 10 teams.

[Southpaw191679666239]

And again, not addressed to any one person. It's a three year deal to a middle reliever. I can't overstate this. That's a long long time, way too long for someone of Eyre's abilities.

 

Which reliever are you referring to? Eyre, whose contract is 2 yrs + option year, or the pending Howry deal?

 

Specifically Eyre(see underlined), but it applies to both. Eyre has a player option, there's no way in the world he's going to turn that down. Howry's discussed deal has been for 3 years as well.

 

D'oh! Didn't see the underlined. #-o

[Ding Dong Johnson]

So after all this, have we determined the answer to the question on the thread title is no, Howry hasn't signed?

 

Yes, 17 pages to get to "No".

[Southpaw191679666239]

The ESPN report says it goes beyond next year:

 

The contract also includes a no-trade clause for next season and a limited no-trade for 2007 and 2008 that allows him to block deals to 10 teams.

 

That still allows 20 teams he can be spun to. ;)

[Mark Priors Calves]

So after all this, have we determined the answer to the question on the thread title is no, Howry hasn't signed?

 

I don't have time to go through this entire thread to see if this has been posted already but here's our own Bruce Miles' take in today's Daily Herald.

 

Cubs Might Pursue Howry

[bsucubsfan]

I am loving how Hendry wants top notch setup guys, and atleast 7 starters for the rotation, he's finally tired of getting caught without a direction to go.

[Mark Priors Calves]

I am loving how Hendry wants top notch setup guys, and atleast 7 starters for the rotation, he's finally tired of getting caught without a direction to go.

 

I think everybody wants a strong bullpen but with the assets being used on it this off season, it appears Hendry is putting that ahead of improving the offense which is a much more pressing issue.

[Rusch33]

Not sure if this is posted but.

 

Howry was said yesterday to be nearing a deal with those same Chicago Cubs -- a three-year contract worth more than the $11 million the Cubs gave to Eyre.

 

 

This is in the New Jersey Star Ledger.

 

here's the link (below advertisement):

 

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1132641043208490.xml&coll=1

[Tim]

One more factor to consider. I believe Eyre is a type A free agent. Assuming we also sign Howry, that would mean we've signed two type A free agents this offseason.

 

We would then be unable to sign both Furcal and Giles, no matter how much money we have left, because teams cannot sign more than three type A free agents in one offseason unless they lose more than that.

 

So, by signing two relievers, you are quite effectively limiting your options on what to do about the dreadful offense, Mr Hendry.