2005-06 College Basketball Thread

[snoodmonger]

Well, once again, Mizzou loses to a team they probably had no business losing to. Don't get me wrong, I hate Mizzou almost, almost as much as I hate the Cardinals, but I'm frustrated with talented players underachieving with Boy Wonder at the helm. I'm glad Tommy Ammaker's team is doing fine otherwise Snyder may make it harder for any other Duke assistant to get a job. As I said when Ammaker left Seton Hall for Michigan, his teams will do fine. It seems the NCAA infractions are now behind them so he's getting players and developing them. Something Snyder seems to have little concept of. By the way, it seems KU has finally learned to shoot the ball. They look like they're ready to go on a nice run. Winning in Ames isn't an easy thing to do.

 

Robinson, Chlamers, and Rush are a prety solid three-headed monster. Chalmers in particular is a menace on both ends of the court. If there's one thing to say about this KU squad, they're never dull to watch. I've never seen a more bipolar team. Look great one -second, look completely inept five mnutes later. a 13 point lead with two-minutes left is still nerve-wracking. Still, I'm really starting to like them. And I'm looking forward to the rematches w/ KSU and MU.

 

I've been telling some KU fans at work that this year kind of reminds me of Bill Self's first year at Illinois when he had a young team. They stunk for the first three and a half months of the season and finished last in the Big Ten, but won their last few regular season Big Ten games and as the bottom seed made it all the way to the Big Ten championship game only to get blown out by the eventual national champs Michigan State. I said all of that to say this, KU will be fine this year. I heard that Micah Downs left school because he missed his girlfriend back home. I know he wasn't getting a lot of playing time, but knowing Bill Self from Illinois I bet he wasn't doing anything in practice. That's really the only time you get in his dog house.

 

I think you're right. Self repeatedly said, "We need Micah to play his way into the rotation." Apparently he didn't.

 

Personally, I think Downs was upset about it. And for a person to give up that easily--after only one semester--doesn't say much about the kid's fortitude. There are lots of other rumors, though, so I'm not sure what to believe. Whatever it is, hopefully he'll get it all worked out at Gonzaga, because if he gets his head on straight, he could be a great player.

 

downs just realized that he left one of the most beautiful regions of the world for kansas. i'm betting he was homesick. :P

 

Lawrence is actually not bad, particularly the campus. But it's no Pacific Northwest.

[Magnetic Curses]

Lawrence is actually not bad, particularly the campus. But it's no Pacific Northwest.

 

i've heard lawrence is nice as well, and much more of a college town.

 

it's hard to imagine that downs has given up already as far as getting playing time. he's a freshman for pete's sake, and he's not exactly a candidate to jump to the pros. when a kid leaves school after 1 semester, i'd believe it has to do with homesickness.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Poor Louisville 2-6 in the Big East. Heck, if we lose Wednesday we'll be 3-5.

 

It's amazing, Louisville was ranked as high as 4th this season, and they might not even make the conference tournament in the Big East. Conference is STACKED.

[dalgreen]

Northern Iowa is now in the top 25 (24 coaches, 25 AP) for the first time in school history. Makes Iowa's loss to them just a little less embarassing, I guess. Next game: at Creighton tonight.

 

the MVC is very very good this year...they should get 4 teams in the big dance this year in UNI, SIU, Creighton, and Wichita St. I would not have been that embarassed to lose to UNI, they are going to win at least one game in the tourny this year...mark it down.

 

I'm not really that bummed about it, since they do have a pretty darn good team. Plus, it was on their home court, went to OT, and Horner was injured. The frustrating part is that we just can't seem to beat them in Cedar Falls.

They are very good, I am glad we don't have to go to SIU every other year. Now playing tham at a nuetral court or at home would be ok.

 

i hope SIU can play Illinois at least once in Carbondale in the next 4 years when I'm down there. Of course, I'd rather see them face each other in the national championship game this year :wink:

 

I highly doubt that happens. Perhaps the biggest criticism I have with my alma mater is their reluctance to play the top basketball schools in Illinois. We refused to play DePaul in the 80's, and pretty much refuse to play SIU even in a home and home series. We did play Bradley a few years ago in Peoria, but I think that was only because of Frank Williams and Sergio McClain were from there.

 

I may be a cynic, but I don't think the MVC is any stronger this year than previous years. They'll likely send one team to the sweet sixteen, which they've done in the past, but I don't see any more than that.

[Andy]

Poor Louisville 2-6 in the Big East. Heck, if we lose Wednesday we'll be 3-5.

 

It's amazing, Louisville was ranked as high as 4th this season, and they might not even make the conference tournament in the Big East. Conference is STACKED.

Final Four last year + get most of your good players back (exception F. Garcia) + C-USA to Big East = no top-12 conference finish.

 

Last week, Seton Hall, a middle of the road Big East team at best, walked into Raleigh, home of the 3rd best team in the ACC (NC State) and crushed them. Georgetown beat Duke, which no one other than Va Tech has even come close to this year. The conference is obscene.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Poor Louisville 2-6 in the Big East. Heck, if we lose Wednesday we'll be 3-5.

 

It's amazing, Louisville was ranked as high as 4th this season, and they might not even make the conference tournament in the Big East. Conference is STACKED.

Final Four last year + get most of your good players back (exception F. Garcia) + C-USA to Big East = no top-12 conference finish.

 

Last week, Seton Hall, a middle of the road Big East team at best, walked into Raleigh, home of the 3rd best team in the ACC (NC State) and crushed them. Georgetown beat Duke, which no one other than Va Tech has even come close to this year. The conference is obscene.

 

It's also a relatively down year for Cincinnati, DePaul, and Marquette. Eventually I think they're going to have to split it into two divisions.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Poor Louisville 2-6 in the Big East. Heck, if we lose Wednesday we'll be 3-5.

 

It's amazing, Louisville was ranked as high as 4th this season, and they might not even make the conference tournament in the Big East. Conference is STACKED.

Final Four last year + get most of your good players back (exception F. Garcia) + C-USA to Big East = no top-12 conference finish.

 

Last week, Seton Hall, a middle of the road Big East team at best, walked into Raleigh, home of the 3rd best team in the ACC (NC State) and crushed them. Georgetown beat Duke, which no one other than Va Tech has even come close to this year. The conference is obscene.

 

When you have 16 teams, you're more likely to get upsets. RPI wise, the Big East still trails the Big 10(FTR, the B10 had a better non-con RPI as well). The Big 10 has 7 teams in the RPI top 20, compared to 3 for the Big East. Avg. RPI is 53 for the B10(17 median), 56 for the Big East(35 median). I understand that it's a deep conference, but it's not as head and shoulders amazing as some claim it to be.

[illiniguy]

Northern Iowa is now in the top 25 (24 coaches, 25 AP) for the first time in school history. Makes Iowa's loss to them just a little less embarassing, I guess. Next game: at Creighton tonight.

 

the MVC is very very good this year...they should get 4 teams in the big dance this year in UNI, SIU, Creighton, and Wichita St. I would not have been that embarassed to lose to UNI, they are going to win at least one game in the tourny this year...mark it down.

 

I'm not really that bummed about it, since they do have a pretty darn good team. Plus, it was on their home court, went to OT, and Horner was injured. The frustrating part is that we just can't seem to beat them in Cedar Falls.

They are very good, I am glad we don't have to go to SIU every other year. Now playing tham at a nuetral court or at home would be ok.

 

i hope SIU can play Illinois at least once in Carbondale in the next 4 years when I'm down there. Of course, I'd rather see them face each other in the national championship game this year :wink:

 

I highly doubt that happens. Perhaps the biggest criticism I have with my alma mater is their reluctance to play the top basketball schools in Illinois. We refused to play DePaul in the 80's, and pretty much refuse to play SIU even in a home and home series. We did play Bradley a few years ago in Peoria, but I think that was only because of Frank Williams and Sergio McClain were from there.

 

I may be a cynic, but I don't think the MVC is any stronger this year than previous years. They'll likely send one team to the sweet sixteen, which they've done in the past, but I don't see any more than that.

Weber has stated he would love to do it, but I don't think Guenther will ever give in to it.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

When you have 16 teams, you're more likely to get upsets. RPI wise, the Big East still trails the Big 10(FTR, the B10 had a better non-con RPI as well). The Big 10 has 7 teams in the RPI top 20, compared to 3 for the Big East. Avg. RPI is 53 for the B10(17 median), 56 for the Big East(35 median). I understand that it's a deep conference, but it's not as head and shoulders amazing as some claim it to be.

 

Eh, until the Big Ten can beat the ACC in the Big Ten/ACC challenge at least once, I won't give them any credit. (Kidding) Big 10 is solid this year, can't argue that. But I don't see any way that they are better than the Big East. RPI be damned. How many different teams has the Big East had in the top 10 this year? How many in the top 25? Receiving significant votes? The Big Ten is also having a great year, and anyone can win that conference this year, but I still put them behind the Big East.

 

Does anyone else think they should start a Big East/ Big 12 challenge? And a Pac 10/ SEC challenge? With the success of the ACC/ Big Ten, you'd figure the other major conferences would want to follow suit.

[illiniguy]

When you have 16 teams, you're more likely to get upsets. RPI wise, the Big East still trails the Big 10(FTR, the B10 had a better non-con RPI as well). The Big 10 has 7 teams in the RPI top 20, compared to 3 for the Big East. Avg. RPI is 53 for the B10(17 median), 56 for the Big East(35 median). I understand that it's a deep conference, but it's not as head and shoulders amazing as some claim it to be.

 

Eh, until the Big Ten can beat the ACC in the Big Ten/ACC challenge at least once, I won't give them any credit. (Kidding) Big 10 is solid this year, can't argue that. But I don't see any way that they are better than the Big East. RPI be damned. How many different teams has the Big East had in the top 10 this year? How many in the top 25? Receiving significant votes? The Big Ten is also having a great year, and anyone can win that conference this year, but I still put them behind the Big East.

 

Does anyone else think they should start a Big East/ Big 12 challenge? And a Pac 10/ SEC challenge? With the success of the ACC/ Big Ten, you'd figure the other major conferences would want to follow suit.

well if we could kick Penn State back out we would have tied. Seriously will Penn State, Purdue, or Northwestern ever be able to beat one of the ACC teams?

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

well if we could kick Penn State back out we would have tied. Seriously will Penn State, Purdue, or Northwestern ever be able to beat one of the ACC teams?

 

I honestly believe that if they would play that challenge again now, the Big Ten would win. ACC is in a down year, Big Ten is having a pretty good year. But you're right, the bottom of the barrel teams don't help the Big Ten much in that.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

When you have 16 teams, you're more likely to get upsets. RPI wise, the Big East still trails the Big 10(FTR, the B10 had a better non-con RPI as well). The Big 10 has 7 teams in the RPI top 20, compared to 3 for the Big East. Avg. RPI is 53 for the B10(17 median), 56 for the Big East(35 median). I understand that it's a deep conference, but it's not as head and shoulders amazing as some claim it to be.

 

Eh, until the Big Ten can beat the ACC in the Big Ten/ACC challenge at least once, I won't give them any credit. (Kidding) Big 10 is solid this year, can't argue that. But I don't see any way that they are better than the Big East. RPI be damned. How many different teams has the Big East had in the top 10 this year? How many in the top 25? Receiving significant votes? The Big Ten is also having a great year, and anyone can win that conference this year, but I still put them behind the Big East.

 

The polls are super subjective and biased. What good is counting Louisville among the teams that were in the top-10 at one point if they aren't even going to make their conference or the NCAA tourney at this point? I don't see how you can just discount RPI then hold up the polls as proof.

[Mark_R]

 

It's amazing, Louisville was ranked as high as 4th this season, and they might not even make the conference tournament in the Big East. Conference is STACKED.

Final Four last year + get most of your good players back (exception F. Garcia) + C-USA to Big East = no top-12 conference finish.

 

Actually, Louisville is missing a lot of pieces from last year's team: they lost Garcia, Larry O' Bannon, and Ellis Myles.

 

Over 42 points a game. Almost 20 boards.

 

That's a tall order for Jenkins, Gianiny, Palacios, and Padgett to overcome.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

The polls are super subjective and biased. What good is counting Louisville among the teams that were in the top-10 at one point if they aren't even going to make their conference or the NCAA tourney at this point? I don't see how you can just discount RPI then hold up the polls as proof.

 

Because I think we've all learned from the BCS that a computer isn't an accurate way to tell what team is better. Louisville has lost a lot of games that it shouldn't have, you're right. But they're still a very good team. Is Tennesee a better team than Illinois? Probably not. Is unranked Wisconsin better than #1 ranked UConn? I'd say no. But according to RPI, they are better.

[illiniguy]

well if we could kick Penn State back out we would have tied. Seriously will Penn State, Purdue, or Northwestern ever be able to beat one of the ACC teams?

 

I honestly believe that if they would play that challenge again now, the Big Ten would win. ACC is in a down year, Big Ten is having a pretty good year. But you're right, the bottom of the barrel teams don't help the Big Ten much in that.

I don't know. Would Illinois still be able to beat NC at this point? Tough call as those frosh have really gotten better. Indiana def would get beat by Duke right now. Purdue couldn't beat FSU. I still think you guys would win the challenege the way it is set up. If they actually put the best teams against the other best who knows. I don't like how the challenge is ran. Why is it that Duke played Illinois and MSU at Cameron. Yet went to Detroit and Chicago to return the favor? The whole thing is set up for the ACC to win imo.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The polls are super subjective and biased. What good is counting Louisville among the teams that were in the top-10 at one point if they aren't even going to make their conference or the NCAA tourney at this point? I don't see how you can just discount RPI then hold up the polls as proof.

 

Because I think we've all learned from the BCS that a computer isn't an accurate way to tell what team is better. Louisville has lost a lot of games that it shouldn't have, you're right. But they're still a very good team. Is Tennesee a better team than Illinois? Probably not. Is unranked Wisconsin better than #1 ranked UConn? I'd say no. But according to RPI, they are better.

 

I'm not saying RPI is flawless, but it's a heckuva lot better than the polls, who suffer much worse problems because of the human element. And either way, the fact that a fairly reliable evaluating tool has the B10 better than the Big East shows that it's not clearly the best conference, or head and shoulders above any other.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I don't know. Would Illinois still be able to beat NC at this point? Tough call as those frosh have really gotten better. Indiana def would get beat by Duke right now. Purdue couldn't beat FSU. I still think you guys would win the challenege the way it is set up. If they actually put the best teams against the other best who knows. I don't like how the challenge is ran. Why is it that Duke played Illinois and MSU at Cameron. Yet went to Detroit and Chicago to return the favor? The whole thing is set up for the ACC to win imo.

 

For the record, I don't like the ACC. I was an athlete at DePaul. So the only conference I've ever really liked was the old Conference USA.

 

I think an Illinois/UNC game now would be another close game. Not sure who'd come out on top though. Duke would probably manhandle Indiana now. NC State showed a lot of weakness against Seton Hall. Etc. etc. It'd be really interesting to see them play all those games over later in the season.

[Flames24Rulz]

Northern Iowa is now in the top 25 (24 coaches, 25 AP) for the first time in school history. Makes Iowa's loss to them just a little less embarassing, I guess. Next game: at Creighton tonight.

 

the MVC is very very good this year...they should get 4 teams in the big dance this year in UNI, SIU, Creighton, and Wichita St. I would not have been that embarassed to lose to UNI, they are going to win at least one game in the tourny this year...mark it down.

 

I'm not really that bummed about it, since they do have a pretty darn good team. Plus, it was on their home court, went to OT, and Horner was injured. The frustrating part is that we just can't seem to beat them in Cedar Falls.

They are very good, I am glad we don't have to go to SIU every other year. Now playing tham at a nuetral court or at home would be ok.

 

i hope SIU can play Illinois at least once in Carbondale in the next 4 years when I'm down there. Of course, I'd rather see them face each other in the national championship game this year :wink:

 

I highly doubt that happens. Perhaps the biggest criticism I have with my alma mater is their reluctance to play the top basketball schools in Illinois. We refused to play DePaul in the 80's, and pretty much refuse to play SIU even in a home and home series. We did play Bradley a few years ago in Peoria, but I think that was only because of Frank Williams and Sergio McClain were from there.

 

I may be a cynic, but I don't think the MVC is any stronger this year than previous years. They'll likely send one team to the sweet sixteen, which they've done in the past, but I don't see any more than that.

Weber has stated he would love to do it, but I don't think Guenther will ever give in to it.

 

i thought I heard Weber say last year that he'd like a 3 year series with SIU where they have a game at a neutral site (like the UC), a game in Champaign, and a game in C'Dale. IMO, I think Guenther would give into Bruce if he pushed him hard enough for it.

[illiniguy]

Northern Iowa is now in the top 25 (24 coaches, 25 AP) for the first time in school history. Makes Iowa's loss to them just a little less embarassing, I guess. Next game: at Creighton tonight.

 

the MVC is very very good this year...they should get 4 teams in the big dance this year in UNI, SIU, Creighton, and Wichita St. I would not have been that embarassed to lose to UNI, they are going to win at least one game in the tourny this year...mark it down.

 

I'm not really that bummed about it, since they do have a pretty darn good team. Plus, it was on their home court, went to OT, and Horner was injured. The frustrating part is that we just can't seem to beat them in Cedar Falls.

They are very good, I am glad we don't have to go to SIU every other year. Now playing tham at a nuetral court or at home would be ok.

 

i hope SIU can play Illinois at least once in Carbondale in the next 4 years when I'm down there. Of course, I'd rather see them face each other in the national championship game this year :wink:

 

I highly doubt that happens. Perhaps the biggest criticism I have with my alma mater is their reluctance to play the top basketball schools in Illinois. We refused to play DePaul in the 80's, and pretty much refuse to play SIU even in a home and home series. We did play Bradley a few years ago in Peoria, but I think that was only because of Frank Williams and Sergio McClain were from there.

 

I may be a cynic, but I don't think the MVC is any stronger this year than previous years. They'll likely send one team to the sweet sixteen, which they've done in the past, but I don't see any more than that.

Weber has stated he would love to do it, but I don't think Guenther will ever give in to it.

 

i thought I heard Weber say last year that he'd like a 3 year series with SIU where they have a game at a neutral site (like the UC), a game in Champaign, and a game in C'Dale. IMO, I think Guenther would give into Bruce if he pushed him hard enough for it.

they should so it as it would only help legitimize what SIU has accomplished. Especially if they would beat Illinois which they possibly could next year if the game was played there.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I'm not saying RPI is flawless, but it's a heckuva lot better than the polls, who suffer much worse problems because of the human element. And either way, the fact that a fairly reliable evaluating tool has the B10 better than the Big East shows that it's not clearly the best conference, or head and shoulders above any other.

 

I'm not saying it's head and shoulders above it. They're definitely close. It's just my opinion that the Big East is better.

 

But I wouldn't go as far as to call RPI reliable. The polls are probably more reliable in my eyes. They generally pick a more accurate top 25 than RPI does. I can tell you right now, there is no way that Wisconsin is a top 10 team. And there is surely no way they should be ranked ahead of UConn.

 

EDIT: I missed the word "fairly" in front of reliable in your post. My mistake. Fairly reliable changes things a bit.

[illiniguy]

I'm not saying RPI is flawless, but it's a heckuva lot better than the polls, who suffer much worse problems because of the human element. And either way, the fact that a fairly reliable evaluating tool has the B10 better than the Big East shows that it's not clearly the best conference, or head and shoulders above any other.

 

I'm not saying it's head and shoulders above it. They're definitely close. It's just my opinion that the Big East is better.

 

But I wouldn't go as far as to call RPI reliable. The polls are probably more reliable in my eyes. They generally pick a more accurate top 25 than RPI does. I can tell you right now, there is no way that Wisconsin is a top 10 team. And there is surely no way they should be ranked ahead of UConn.

They have a great coach and I would be willing to wager they could beat UCONN in Madison. But, I do agree with your point the RPI sucks.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

They have a great coach and I would be willing to wager they could beat UCONN in Madison. But, I do agree with your point the RPI sucks.

 

Yeah, Big Ten teams have mastered the art of using the home court advantage. It's getting insane.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not saying RPI is flawless, but it's a heckuva lot better than the polls, who suffer much worse problems because of the human element. And either way, the fact that a fairly reliable evaluating tool has the B10 better than the Big East shows that it's not clearly the best conference, or head and shoulders above any other.

 

I'm not saying it's head and shoulders above it. They're definitely close. It's just my opinion that the Big East is better.

 

But I wouldn't go as far as to call RPI reliable. The polls are probably more reliable in my eyes. They generally pick a more accurate top 25 than RPI does. I can tell you right now, there is no way that Wisconsin is a top 10 team. And there is surely no way they should be ranked ahead of UConn.

 

That's because they've sustained the losses they have. Pomeroy's rankings has UConn #1 over the last 5 games, and Wisconsin #101 over their last 5 games. I really don't know how you can say that the polls with all their what-have-you-done-for-me-lateliness, bias towards longtime powers, and general human element are more reliable though.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

That's because they've sustained the losses they have. Pomeroy's rankings has UConn #1 over the last 5 games, and Wisconsin #101 over their last 5 games. I really don't know how you can say that the polls with all their what-have-you-done-for-me-lateliness, bias towards longtime powers, and general human element are more reliable though.

 

Because I don't trust a machine that uses mathematical formulas to determine a game that is based completely on human actions. RPI doesn't take into account margin of victory or any of that. If a team loses on a last second miracle full court shot to the number 1 team in the country, it counts the same as losing to the worst team in the country by 50. Where as a human would take that into account, and rank accordingly.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

You're right though, the polls have their faults too. There is a lot of bias toward the powerhouse schools. And mid majors get the short end of the stick more often than not.