Ichiro?

[NorthsideAvenger]

First: For those who forgot, I will remind you that Ichiro was a CF in the pro league in Japan. He only moved to RF with Seattle because Mike Cameron refused to move. So I believe Ichiro wanted to move back to CF, I believe he could handle it.

 

Second: I seriously doubt the Mariners trade Ichiro for a couple reasons: 1. They lose alot of fans. Ichiro is SO OVER in Seattle that he is an attraction. They move him, half to 75% of their fans will leave. 2. They would want a king's ranson for him. The ONLY team I see with the talent to acquire Ichiro is Anaheim, abnd oculd we beat a Kendrick/Santana plus two more very good prospects? Nope.

[fromthestretch]

The only tool Ichiro is missing is power. He is very near the top if not at the top with the other 4. Why would you not want a player like that in your lineup?

 

This board has officially gone insane with people mentioning Neifi and Pierre in the same breath as Ichiro. Unless the Jeopardy answer is "The 3 baseball players who couldn't possibly be more different"...

 

I think you're a little off with that last sentence.

 

They are similar in style in that both have OBPs that are highly dependant on their batting averages, and that speed is a large part of their game. Ichiro hits for more home run power, but that's the biggest difference in their style of play.

 

Ichiro is definitely the better player though. No question about that. He's certainly more consistent in that even in the worst year he's posted, he's still productive.

[1908]

Hmmm...Gwynn in his prime or Ichiro in his, I'd take Ichiro.

 

I think Seattle may be posturing a little saying that Ichiro is untouchable thus making teams bid higher than they originally wanted too.

 

Taking their best years into consideration, I'd give the edge to Gwynn.

Ichiro's best years were spent across the Pacific, unfortunately for MLB fans.

[1908]

If Ichiro wanted to play CF, wouldn't he be doing it?

I think he'd play anywhere his manager asked him to play. If you have a player like Reed to cover center (and Mike Cameron before him) it's hard not to put Ichiro's arm in RF.

[Backtobanks]

Pick a different player BigbadB. Tony Gwynn is the exception, not the rule. He is one of the greatest hitters of this era.

 

How about Pete Rose? He kept getting those hits until he was about 40.

[oldcubsfan]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys.

 

I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though.

 

No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

 

For someone who thinks signing Bradley to be a great idea, I'm hard pressed to understand how you dislike Ichiro? How many times has Ichiro been suspended, sent home or sent to anger management?

[stitchface]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys.

 

I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though.

 

No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

 

For someone who thinks signing Bradley to be a great idea, I'm hard pressed to understand how you dislike Ichiro? How many times has Ichiro been suspended, sent home or sent to anger management?

 

 

relevance? I bet Ichiro could hit 20+ homers at wrigley.

[RockTheIvy]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys.

 

I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though.

 

No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

 

For someone who thinks signing Bradley to be a great idea, I'm hard pressed to understand how you dislike Ichiro? How many times has Ichiro been suspended, sent home or sent to anger management?

 

How dare you talk about chemistry around here, OCF!

[Backtobanks]

Ichiro would get about 80 bunt hits on the Wrigley turf.

[RockTheIvy]

Ichiro would get about 80 bunt hits on the Wrigley turf.

 

He'd probably bunt 3234 times.

 

In all seriousness, it's just too bad the Cubs will never pay for excellence, instead overpaying for mediocrity, or being happy with garbage.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys.

 

I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though.

 

No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

 

For someone who thinks signing Bradley to be a great idea, I'm hard pressed to understand how you dislike Ichiro? How many times has Ichiro been suspended, sent home or sent to anger management?

 

I never said I disliked Ichiro, I was supporting Rocket's point about his abilities. That said, Ichiro isn't worth the haul we'd have to trade for him. He's a guy that puts up a .370 OBP with a ton of singles, and we'd be paying through the nose to get him. I really don't see what Bradley has to do with it, but he outproduced Ichiro this year.

[1908]

I really don't see what Bradley has to do with it, but he outproduced Ichiro this year.

Based on what? OPS? C'mon.

 

VORP

Ichiro 45

Bradley 24

 

Win Shares

Ichiro 24

Bradley 11

[Geech]

Based on what? OPS? C'mon.

 

VORP

Ichiro 45

Bradley 24

 

Win Shares

Ichiro 24

Bradley 11

 

Do VORP and winshares take into account playing time? It seems that way, as both OPS and Eqa have Bradley pegged as the more productive player this year. I guess it depends on how much time you expect Bradley to miss next year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I really don't see what Bradley has to do with it, but he outproduced Ichiro this year.

Based on what? OPS? C'mon.

 

VORP

Ichiro 45

Bradley 24

 

Win Shares

Ichiro 24

Bradley 11

 

That's because Bradley didn't have the PT Ichiro did.

 

VORPr

Bradley .319

Ichiro .254

 

EqA

Bradley .290

Ichiro .279

[1908]

I really don't see what Bradley has to do with it, but he outproduced Ichiro this year.

Based on what? OPS? C'mon.

 

VORP

Ichiro 45

Bradley 24

 

Win Shares

Ichiro 24

Bradley 11

 

That's because Bradley didn't have the PT Ichiro did.

 

VORPr

Bradley .319

Ichiro .254

 

EqA

Bradley .290

Ichiro .279

You don't equate games played with production?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I really don't see what Bradley has to do with it, but he outproduced Ichiro this year.

Based on what? OPS? C'mon.

 

VORP

Ichiro 45

Bradley 24

 

Win Shares

Ichiro 24

Bradley 11

 

That's because Bradley didn't have the PT Ichiro did.

 

VORPr

Bradley .319

Ichiro .254

 

EqA

Bradley .290

Ichiro .279

You don't equate games played with production?

 

I don't think Bradley's production was a product of a small sample size.

[1908]

You don't equate games played with production?

I don't think Bradley's production was a product of a small sample size.

No, I mean when you're evaluating a player's contributions to his team, do you believe that games played are an important factor?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You don't equate games played with production?

I don't think Bradley's production was a product of a small sample size.

No, I mean when you're evaluating a player's contributions to his team, do you believe that games played are an important factor?

 

Sure time counts, but that's not exactly what I was saying originally. For the time that they played, Bradley was better offensively.

[1908]

You don't equate games played with production?

I don't think Bradley's production was a product of a small sample size.

No, I mean when you're evaluating a player's contributions to his team, do you believe that games played are an important factor?

 

Sure time counts, but that's not exactly what I was saying originally. For the time that they played, Bradley was better offensively.

That's not what you said, you said Bradley outproduced Ichiro this year, and it's not even close when you factor in games played.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You don't equate games played with production?

I don't think Bradley's production was a product of a small sample size.

No, I mean when you're evaluating a player's contributions to his team, do you believe that games played are an important factor?

 

Sure time counts, but that's not exactly what I was saying originally. For the time that they played, Bradley was better offensively.

That's not what you said, you said Bradley outproduced Ichiro this year, and it's not even close when you factor in games played.

 

That's what I meant, sorry if I came off as otherwise.