Ichiro?

[Backtobanks]

The New York Post is reporting that Ichiro may want to be traded because he doesn't see a winning team in the near future in Seattle. Ichiro would certainly look good playing CF and batting at the top of the order for the Cubs.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

the cubs aren't exactly a "winning team."

[rocket]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

[fromthestretch]

the cubs aren't exactly a "winning team."

 

Ichiro isn't exactly a CF.

 

Not saying he couldn't handle it, but he seems to be very comfortable in RF.

[BigbadB]

If Ichiro wanted to play CF, wouldn't he be doing it?

[TheDude]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

[HoopsCubs]

If Ichiro wanted to play CF, wouldn't he be doing it?

 

Peter Gammons was on Mike and Mike in The Morning on ESPN radio this morning, and flat out said Seattle will not trade Ichiro. He means as much to them in their international marketing and revenue efforts as Hideki does to Steinbrenner Inc.

[rocket]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

[fromthestretch]

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez.

 

I think a better comparison is Juan Pierre. In my opinion, Ichiro is Juan Pierre with more power, a MUCH better arm, and a higher salary. Both are capable of good OBP if they hit over .300. The difference is that Ichiro doesn't hit under .300, although he came close this year.

[TheDude]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

I'd be more than shocked if Ichiro put up Neifi numbers. It's pretty ridiculous to make that claim, IMO. There is a bloody .076 point difference in MLB career OBP and .138 difference in OPS.

 

Ichiro .332/.377/.819

Perez .270/.301/.681

[CuseCubFan69]

If the Cubs got Irchiro then I would want Bradley or Wells in CF.

[BigbadB]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys.

 

I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

ichiro is about due for a SHARP decline.

 

no thanks.

 

Right :roll: .

 

The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro.

 

I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro.

 

If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

 

You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys.

 

I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though.

 

No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

[TheDude]

No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

 

Fair enough, but at age 32? I'll buy this argument 3 years from now.

[BigbadB]

And Tony Gwynn became fat and still hit a ton of singles. At age 37, Gwynn had 220 hits while batting .362.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And Tony Gwynn became fat and still hit a ton of singles. At age 37, Gwynn had 220 hits while batting .362.

 

How many bunt singles did he have that year? Ichiro's speed is a big reason he gets those singles.

[BigbadB]

My point is that a guy who can consistently hit over .300 usually tends to do so well into their late 30's.

[SAMMYWHO]

Pick a different player BigbadB. Tony Gwynn is the exception, not the rule. He is one of the greatest hitters of this era.

[TheDude]

Pick a different player BigbadB. Tony Gwynn is the exception, not the rule. He is one of the greatest hitters of this era.

 

I used an earlier example: Lofton.

 

Lofton 3 year splits (35-38 age): .303/.362/.428/.790

 

Besides, Ichiro is also the exception, not the rule.

[CuseCubFan69]

Hmmm...Gwynn in his prime or Ichiro in his, I'd take Ichiro.

 

I think Seattle may be posturing a little saying that Ichiro is untouchable thus making teams bid higher than they originally wanted too.

[fromthestretch]

Hmmm...Gwynn in his prime or Ichiro in his, I'd take Ichiro.

 

I think Seattle may be posturing a little saying that Ichiro is untouchable thus making teams bid higher than they originally wanted too.

 

Taking their best years into consideration, I'd give the edge to Gwynn.

[CuseCubFan69]

Hmmm...Gwynn in his prime or Ichiro in his, I'd take Ichiro.

 

I think Seattle may be posturing a little saying that Ichiro is untouchable thus making teams bid higher than they originally wanted too.

 

Taking their best years into consideration, I'd give the edge to Gwynn.

 

To be honest this was close for me and what decided it was baserunning.

[RockTheIvy]

Hmmm...Gwynn in his prime or Ichiro in his, I'd take Ichiro.

 

I think Seattle may be posturing a little saying that Ichiro is untouchable thus making teams bid higher than they originally wanted too.

 

Taking their best years into consideration, I'd give the edge to Gwynn.

 

Gwynn had some unbelievable years. Not saying he was incredibly valuable in those years, but his K totals are insanely low.

 

As far as Ichiro! is concerned, I too believe a lot of his value is tied to his average and his speed. That being said, I think he is a much better hitter than say a Juan Pierre, and if his average was going to fall, it would have done so already. If you could nab Ichiro! on the cheap, I wouldn't complain. But I think the Cubs need a RF that brings power and OBP that are not made by average.

[fromthestretch]

Hmmm...Gwynn in his prime or Ichiro in his, I'd take Ichiro.

 

I think Seattle may be posturing a little saying that Ichiro is untouchable thus making teams bid higher than they originally wanted too.

 

Taking their best years into consideration, I'd give the edge to Gwynn.

 

To be honest this was close for me and what decided it was baserunning.

 

I think my decision is based on the fact that Gwynn's best offensive years came later in his career, when he was a step slower. He was still a very good baserunner, but it tells me that he did it with few hits that he had to "leg out." From 1993-1997, he was the man.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The only tool Ichiro is missing is power. He is very near the top if not at the top with the other 4. Why would you not want a player like that in your lineup?

 

This board has officially gone insane with people mentioning Neifi and Pierre in the same breath as Ichiro. Unless the Jeopardy answer is "The 3 baseball players who couldn't possibly be more different"...