Keep Your Eyes/Ears on Pat Gillick Starting This Week

[CuseCubFan69]

Please take a cue from The Wrath of Khan and create value (life) where there is none (lifelessness).

 

Trade SOMETHING for Bradley. At worst, you nontender him in December. At best, you either use him yourself or trade him for something later in the offseason.

 

Seriously, he has much more value than the Dodgers want for him.

 

Imagine Murton, Bradley and Abreu in the OF? :D

[E.J.]

According to one executive, the Phillies discussed a trade that would have sent rightfielder Bobby Abreu to the Toronto Blue Jays for centerfielder Vernon Wells. The Jays, who are looking for a corner outfielder, turned thumbs down on the proposed deal because Abreu is owed at least $31 million over the next two seasons.

 

Philly Inquirer

 

If that's all it's going to cost to get Abreu Hendry better be all over this.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

According to one executive, the Phillies discussed a trade that would have sent rightfielder Bobby Abreu to the Toronto Blue Jays for centerfielder Vernon Wells. The Jays, who are looking for a corner outfielder, turned thumbs down on the proposed deal because Abreu is owed at least $31 million over the next two seasons.

 

Philly Inquirer

 

If that's all it's going to cost to get Abreu Hendry better be all over this.

 

I've read that Toronto has no interest in moving V.Wells.

[HoopsCubs]

According to one executive, the Phillies discussed a trade that would have sent rightfielder Bobby Abreu to the Toronto Blue Jays for centerfielder Vernon Wells. The Jays, who are looking for a corner outfielder, turned thumbs down on the proposed deal because Abreu is owed at least $31 million over the next two seasons.

 

Philly Inquirer

 

If that's all it's going to cost to get Abreu Hendry better be all over this.

 

Between the Blue Jays rumours (Wells) and the Yankees rumours (Wang or Cano), I think it all points to the fact Abreu is very available. That is a good sign.

[BigbadB]

Wow. Wow. Wow!

 

Why would the Phillies want Cano? They have Rollins and Utley.

 

What would the Phillies like for Mr. Abreu?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

[soapy]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

In best Frank Barone voice: "Holy Crap!"

 

 

Note: I hate Everybody Loves Raymond. I have no idea what possessed me to say that.

[Tedward]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

May be a foolish question, but would the Cubs have the $ to take on Abreu's salary?

 

If they give Furcal $9-10MM, possibly then take on Pierre @$6MM, would they have $15MM to give Abreu? (he's owed $31MM for the next two years correct?). Realizing that Hendry has @$30MM to spend, would that leave him with enough $ to shore up the other area's?

[BigbadB]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

May be a foolish question, but would the Cubs have the $ to take on Abreu's salary?

 

If they give Furcal $9-10MM, possibly then take on Pierre @$6MM, would they have $15MM to give Abreu? (he's owed $31MM for the next two years correct?). Realizing that Hendry has @$30MM to spend, would that leave him with enough $ to shore up the other area's?

 

The key would be to offer enough to Philadelphia that they would be willing to eat part of Abreu's contract.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

May be a foolish question, but would the Cubs have the $ to take on Abreu's salary?

 

If they give Furcal $9-10MM, possibly then take on Pierre @$6MM, would they have $15MM to give Abreu? (he's owed $31MM for the next two years correct?). Realizing that Hendry has @$30MM to spend, would that leave him with enough $ to shore up the other area's?

 

I did't include Pierre. I downgraded to Lofton.

 

Let me see on the cash. I think we would have to have a $110 million payroll for that team, in all liklihood.

[CuseCubFan69]

I would like:

 

Furcal SS

Giles RF

Lee 1B

Dunn LF

Ramirez 3B

Wells CF

Barrett C

Perez 2B

 

Neifi is going to start no matter what and I'd trade Cedeno to get any of the 2 OF's.

[Neuby]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

I am hoping the Cubs can get Lofton signed for 2 million . Could Patterson and Walker net us Livan Hernandez? Would we have enough money for Dotel or would we have to settle for a guy like Seanz.

[Diffusion]

Sounds to me that 1) the Phillies are looking for CF and SP help, plus salary relief, and 2) the Cubs are close to acquiring Pierre for something like a Patterson + pitcher deal. Combine the two and I think you get...

 

Phillies get: Juan Pierre, Rich Hill

Cubs get: Bobby Abreu, maybe some cash from Phillies

Marlins get: Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre

 

 

Trade for Milton Bradley, who can apparently be had for next to nothing, keep Walker and then continue the Furcal chase or make amends with Nomar, and the Cubs could end up with an offensively sensational...

 

C Barrett

1B Lee

2B Walker

3B Ramirez

SS Nomar/Furcal

LF Murton

CF Bradley

RF Abreu

 

...and the pitching pretty much intact. The only real problem is that that's still a pretty poor defensive team.

[Tedward]

Sounds to me that 1) the Phillies are looking for CF and SP help, plus salary relief, and 2) the Cubs are close to acquiring Pierre for something like a Patterson + pitcher deal. Combine the two and I think you get...

 

Phillies get: Juan Pierre, Rich Hill

Cubs get: Bobby Abreu, maybe some cash from Phillies

Marlins get: Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre

 

 

Trade for Milton Bradley, who can apparently be had for next to nothing, keep Walker and then continue the Furcal chase or make amends with Nomar, and the Cubs could end up with an offensively sensational...

 

C Barrett

1B Lee

2B Walker

3B Ramirez

SS Nomar/Furcal

LF Murton

CF Bradley

RF Abreu

 

...and the pitching pretty much intact. The only real problem is that that's still a pretty poor defensive team.

 

I like what the Cubs get in this deal. The Phillies compensation looks a bit light though. The Cubs would have to part with more than CPatt and Hill. Philly is looking for a #1 or #2 starter in return for Abreu. Something that the Cubs won't be able to give Philly.

 

Besides, I don't think CF is a dire need for PHL. They can go with a platoon of Jason Michaels and Lofton (should they choose to resign him).

[Wheelimus]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

I like everything EXCEPT giving up Pie. You're going to go for the short term with Lofton, and not find a way to hold onto a guy who just might be a future All Star?

 

We know that the Phillies are eager to move him, don't give them your best prospect. Try to wow them with a substitute of good prospects we might lose through Rule 5 anyway...

 

I HATE giving up Murton, because it's classic Cubs to give up a guy with his potential, but if it gets Dunn, I can't complain. I'd try to swap someone for him though in that deal, if possible. Cincy doesn't really need outfielders. Any chance of Cincy taking Walker instead? He's cheap, cheap I say...

[BigbadB]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

I like everything EXCEPT giving up Pie. You're going to go for the short term with Lofton, and not find a way to hold onto a guy who just might be a future All Star?

 

We know that the Phillies are eager to move him, don't give them your best prospect. Try to wow them with a substitute of good prospects we might lose through Rule 5 anyway...

 

I HATE giving up Murton, because it's classic Cubs to give up a guy with his potential, but if it gets Dunn, I can't complain. I'd try to swap someone for him though in that deal, if possible. Cincy doesn't really need outfielders. Any chance of Cincy taking Walker instead? He's cheap, cheap I say...

 

Freel and Lopez are cheaper. :wink:

[sethuel1]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

Gah.

[Diffusion]

Sounds to me that 1) the Phillies are looking for CF and SP help, plus salary relief, and 2) the Cubs are close to acquiring Pierre for something like a Patterson + pitcher deal. Combine the two and I think you get...

 

Phillies get: Juan Pierre, Rich Hill

Cubs get: Bobby Abreu, maybe some cash from Phillies

Marlins get: Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre

 

I like what the Cubs get in this deal. The Phillies compensation looks a bit light though. The Cubs would have to part with more than CPatt and Hill. Philly is looking for a #1 or #2 starter in return for Abreu. Something that the Cubs won't be able to give Philly.

 

Besides, I don't think CF is a dire need for PHL. They can go with a platoon of Jason Michaels and Lofton (should they choose to resign him).

 

If something along the lines of Cano/Wang for Abreu has been aired by the Phillies, and turned down by the Yankees, and a Vernon Wells for Abreu flip been discussed too, and rejected by the BlueJays, I don't think Pierre/Hill is that lousy an offer. And I have no doubt the Phillies wish for an ace starter, but that doesn't fit with them reportedly targetting the likes of Wang. Or maybe the Newsday report was just made up. I don't know.

[Wheelimus]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

I like everything EXCEPT giving up Pie. You're going to go for the short term with Lofton, and not find a way to hold onto a guy who just might be a future All Star?

 

We know that the Phillies are eager to move him, don't give them your best prospect. Try to wow them with a substitute of good prospects we might lose through Rule 5 anyway...

 

I HATE giving up Murton, because it's classic Cubs to give up a guy with his potential, but if it gets Dunn, I can't complain. I'd try to swap someone for him though in that deal, if possible. Cincy doesn't really need outfielders. Any chance of Cincy taking Walker instead? He's cheap, cheap I say...

 

Freel and Lopez are cheaper. :wink:

 

I figure in this scenario the Reds could keep Freel in the outfield and let Walker man 2B.

[CarolinaCubFan]

Cubs trade Jerome Williams and Pie for Abreu. Cubs trade Hill, Guzman, and Murton for Dunn.

Sign Kenny Lofton and Furcal.

 

SS Furcal

CF Lofton

1b Lee

LF Dunn

RF Abreu

3b Ramirez

2b Cedeno

C Barrett

 

(Let a guy dream for once!)

 

Mine is:

 

Furcal - L/R - SS - .348 OBP - 12 HR - 46 SB

Castillo - L/R - 2B - .391 OBP - 4 HR - 10 SB

Lee - R - 1B - .418 OBP - 46 HR - 15 SB

Abreu - L - RF - .405 OBP - 24 HR - 31 SB

Dunn - L - LF - .387 OBP - 40 HR - 4 SB

Aram - R - 3B - .358 OBP - 31 HR - 0 SB

Bradley - L/R - CF - .350 OBP - 13 HR - 6 SB - In 75 games

Barrett - R - C - .345 OBP - 16 HR - 0 SB

 

and all players either in or just entering their primes, with Lee and Abreu being the vets at 31, if I recall correctly. I'd go to war with this lineup.

[CarolinaCubFan]

Sounds to me that 1) the Phillies are looking for CF and SP help, plus salary relief, and 2) the Cubs are close to acquiring Pierre for something like a Patterson + pitcher deal. Combine the two and I think you get...

 

Phillies get: Juan Pierre, Rich Hill

Cubs get: Bobby Abreu, maybe some cash from Phillies

Marlins get: Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre

 

I like what the Cubs get in this deal. The Phillies compensation looks a bit light though. The Cubs would have to part with more than CPatt and Hill. Philly is looking for a #1 or #2 starter in return for Abreu. Something that the Cubs won't be able to give Philly.

 

Besides, I don't think CF is a dire need for PHL. They can go with a platoon of Jason Michaels and Lofton (should they choose to resign him).

 

If something along the lines of Cano/Wang for Abreu has been aired by the Phillies, and turned down by the Yankees, and a Vernon Wells for Abreu flip been discussed too, and rejected by the BlueJays, I don't think Pierre/Hill is that lousy an offer. And I have no doubt the Phillies wish for an ace starter, but that doesn't fit with them reportedly targetting the likes of Wang. Or maybe the Newsday report was just made up. I don't know.

 

I agree with you Diffusion, and what's up with that? I either over value Abreu, or you gotta question the Yanks and Blue Jays for turning that down. It's a lot of money, but both teams have it.

[Diffusion]

Sounds to me that 1) the Phillies are looking for CF and SP help, plus salary relief, and 2) the Cubs are close to acquiring Pierre for something like a Patterson + pitcher deal. Combine the two and I think you get...

 

Phillies get: Juan Pierre, Rich Hill

Cubs get: Bobby Abreu, maybe some cash from Phillies

Marlins get: Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre

 

I like what the Cubs get in this deal. The Phillies compensation looks a bit light though. The Cubs would have to part with more than CPatt and Hill. Philly is looking for a #1 or #2 starter in return for Abreu. Something that the Cubs won't be able to give Philly.

 

Besides, I don't think CF is a dire need for PHL. They can go with a platoon of Jason Michaels and Lofton (should they choose to resign him).

 

If something along the lines of Cano/Wang for Abreu has been aired by the Phillies, and turned down by the Yankees, and a Vernon Wells for Abreu flip been discussed too, and rejected by the BlueJays, I don't think Pierre/Hill is that lousy an offer. And I have no doubt the Phillies wish for an ace starter, but that doesn't fit with them reportedly targetting the likes of Wang. Or maybe the Newsday report was just made up. I don't know.

 

I agree with you Diffusion, and what's up with that? I either over value Abreu, or you gotta question the Yanks and Blue Jays for turning that down. It's a lot of money, but both teams have it.

 

The Phillies could quite easily be looking at the fact that Abreu's going to be 32 by the time next season starts, that he hit just .260/.376/.411 after the All-Star Break this year (with a mere 6 HR and 10 SB in 15 attempts), that he has $31.2m/2yrs left on his contract, and that it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. To be entirely honest, while I'd trust Abreu's track record enough to trade for him, I can't say that the Phillies' position on this is particularly crazy, though I think it's far too honest. With a trade chip like Abreu, you should be able to demand above and beyond what the player's really worth, and that does mean a top of the rotation starter. Publicly at least, the Phillies should be trying to keep up the pretence of demanding an ace.

 

Interestingly, and somewhat relevantly, Thome was aged 34 going into 2005, he'd hit .253/.384/.484 in the second half of 2004 and he had $66.66m/4yrs left on his deal. All the same, had the Phillies put Thome on the market, I'm entirely sure the Mets at the very least would have bitten (remember, they were interested in Delgado, but lost out to him to the Marlins, and instead settled for Mientkiewicz, and we all know how that went...), doubtless offering far too much in the process. A year later, and the first base situation in Philly is a mess, so much so the Phillies are considering moving Ryan Howard, who was every bit as ready for the majors last winter as he was when he eventually did step in, just because they can't move Thome. Perhaps the Phillies have learnt some kind of a lesson and don't want to end up with a similar situation in RF...

 

Anyway, my point is that, given everything I've heard in the press, the reliability of which I obviously cannot vouch for, I think the Phillies would seriously consider an offer of Pierre and Hill for Abreu. I don't think the Phillies view Michaels as more than a fourth outfielder (albeit a great one), they'd be very wise not to bring back Lofton, and Pierre would offer in my opinion (but perhaps not the Phillies') a vastly overrated but still decent CF "solution". Meanwhile Rich Hill seems to be widely admired, in that his name pops up in trade talks all the time and every time Hendry says "no way", but I can't myself see why. Yes, he has a great curveball, a truly great curveball, but he sets that up with an average at best fastball and he hasn't got a third-pitch good enough for the majors. Sure, he could develop one, but he's 26 already, so why hasn't he already developed one? Because he can't? My suspicion is that Hill will never be an effective major league starter, and therefore the Cubs should move him now before other people figure that out. And, let's suppose I'm wrong. How much are we going to miss Hill even if he does make it? It's not as if he's even pencilled in for a rotation spot next year!