Wagner to test FA market

[Schwarber Fan]

Philadelphia Inquirer (registration required): "Billy Wagner said last week that he intended to test the free-agent market. The closer's agent, Bean Stringfellow, officially communicated those intentions to the Phillies yesterday."

 

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Imagine Dempster setting up Wagner =P~

[RockTheIvy]

Is he worth 9 mil?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

With the signing of Dempster, this in no way impacts the Cubs. I don't see us pursuing another closer and paying Dempster 5 million to set-up. It's just not going to happen.

[RockTheIvy]

With the signing of Dempster, this in no way impacts the Cubs. I don't see us pursuing another closer and paying Dempster 5 million to set-up. It's just not going to happen.

 

But, as you have suggested, some of our money should go to the bullpen. Seeing Dotel, Seanez and Dempster, in addition to Ohman, Wuertz and Novoa would make me pretty happy.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

With the signing of Dempster, this in no way impacts the Cubs. I don't see us pursuing another closer and paying Dempster 5 million to set-up. It's just not going to happen.

 

we paid Hawkins around 3.5-4M/year to set up. is it that much of a stretch to have dempster set up for 5M in this market?

 

i think dempster gets the closer's job based on '05 performance (save percentage, not WHIP or K/BB) rather than money.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

NO Wagner. Learn from Remlinger.

[Magnetic Curses]

NO Wagner. Learn from Remlinger.

 

with all due respect, wagner and remmy aren't a comparable duo. unless you're talking about the fact that they have been largely overpaid.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

With the signing of Dempster, this in no way impacts the Cubs. I don't see us pursuing another closer and paying Dempster 5 million to set-up. It's just not going to happen.

 

But, as you have suggested, some of our money should go to the bullpen. Seeing Dotel, Seanez and Dempster, in addition to Ohman, Wuertz and Novoa would make me pretty happy.

 

I strongly believe Dempster signed to be the closer. I'm also fairly certain that Hendry is a straight shooter. He's not going to bring in someone else to do the job he signed Dempster to do. We could argue whether he should or not, but the fact remains that he isn't.

 

We can drool over the possibility of adding Wagner to the pen all we want, but it's not going to happen.

[SCCubbieFAN]

We can drool over the possibility of adding Wagner to the pen all we want, but it's not going to happen.

 

Nor should it since the Cubs have holes other than closer that need to be filled first.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

NO Wagner. Learn from Remlinger.

 

with all due respect, wagner and remmy aren't a comparable duo. unless you're talking about the fact that they have been largely overpaid.

 

And are LH relievers that have reached free agency in their mid to late 30's. Take a look at Remlinger's seasons before he came to the Cubs. Sub .200 BAA 2 of 3 years, more than a K per inning 2 of 3 years, sub 1.25 WHIP all 3 years, etc. And with a pitcher who relies on heat like Wagner, he should deteriorate more quickly than someone who relies on deception and location like Slingblade.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd sign him.

[TheDude]

Dempster is not a set-up man. He is typically not the kind of pitcher you want to bring in with men already on base. He needs to start an inning.

 

Occasionally a closer has to come in with men already on, but generally speaking, closers can start the 9th.

 

Signing Wagner makes no sense whatsoever.

[YearofDaCubs]

No way we go after him.

[goonys evil twin]

Dempster is not a set-up man. He is typically not the kind of pitcher you want to bring in with men already on base. He needs to start an inning.

 

Occasionally a closer has to come in with men already on, but generally speaking, closers can start the 9th.

 

Signing Wagner makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Let Dempster start the 8th. Ohman is the guy you bring into the middle of an inning to face a lefty, Wuertz or whoever else you sign comes in to face the righties. You can also bring Wagner into a very tough 7th/8th inning spot, then let Dempster close that day.

 

Not allowing yourself to improve the team just because Ryan Dempster is already techinically the closer would be absurd. The bullpen can use bigtime arms. If this team fails to adequately fix the offensive problems, which it seems they will almost certainly do, then you absolutely have to bring in a lockdown arm to the bullpen. I'd love to have Ryan or Wagner.

[Magnetic Curses]

Dempster is not a set-up man. He is typically not the kind of pitcher you want to bring in with men already on base. He needs to start an inning.

 

Occasionally a closer has to come in with men already on, but generally speaking, closers can start the 9th.

 

Signing Wagner makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Let Dempster start the 8th. Ohman is the guy you bring into the middle of an inning to face a lefty, Wuertz or whoever else you sign comes in to face the righties. You can also bring Wagner into a very tough 7th/8th inning spot, then let Dempster close that day.

 

Not allowing yourself to improve the team just because Ryan Dempster is already techinically the closer would be absurd. The bullpen can use bigtime arms. If this team fails to adequately fix the offensive problems, which it seems they will almost certainly do, then you absolutely have to bring in a lockdown arm to the bullpen. I'd love to have Ryan or Wagner.

 

i think it all depends on what options we have to upgrade the offense. he's definitely one of the few sure bet closers in the league, but we have needs other than an overpriced closer to address first.

[SAMMYWHO]

I'd rather have B.J. Ryan. 4 1/2 years younger roughly. From what others have posted and what the Phillies were rumored to have offered they're probably similiarly priced. Numbers are similar.

 

Wagner

W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO

2005 4 3 1.51 75 0 0 0 38 41 77.2 45 17 13 6 20 87

Career 34 32 2.40 584 0 0 0 284 --- 630.1 409 182 168 59 217 840

 

B.J.

 

W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO

2005 1 4 2.43 69 0 0 0 36 41 70.1 54 20 19 4 26 100

Career 16 19 3.54 405 0 0 0 42 59 381.1 307 161 150 29 195 465

 

Wagner has the better era but B.J. struck out more in less innings. Not a big deal except he might have less control with better stuff.

[goonys evil twin]

i think it all depends on what options we have to upgrade the offense. he's definitely one of the few sure bet closers in the league, but we have needs other than an overpriced closer to address first.

 

With all the talk of defense, fundamentals, clutchiness, etc. etc. etc., I don't see them making a splash offensively. I think they'll try to White Sox it, half assing the offense. And if that's the case, they must go heavy on the pitching, which would include a big time end of the game reliever.

 

I've drawn up several models of next year's payroll, nearly every single one of them (including the ones with Giles) had room for a 3/30 contract in the bullpen.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Must build up the bullpen. Our starters don't go deep in games, so it is a necessity. Dempster is fine as the closer, Wuertz is a serviceable middle reliever, Ohman is a serviceable lefty specialist. We need three relievers to join them: a quality setup man, a quality 7th inning man, and a long reliever. You could fill all three spots with the money a single Billy Wagner or BJ Ryan will command.

 

1. Sign either Bobby Howry, Scott Eyre or Scott Linebrink.

2. Trade for either Rafael Betancourt or Jesse Crain or Juan Rincon.

3. Make Jerome Williams your long reliever (if he's not traded in a different deal), when he is replaced by free agent signee Kevin Millwood for the rotation.

 

Let's say: Dempster, Betancourt, Howry, Wuertz, Ohman, Williams. I'd go to war with that bullpen.

[SAMMYWHO]

Not disagreeing with you Kessinger but didn't Jesse Crain set a record for lowest k/9.

 

W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO

2005 12 5 2.71 75 0 0 0 1 4 79.2 61 28 24 6 29 25

 

I would say those are respectable stats. Anyone against getting a guy like Crain who couldn't strike out my Grandma.

[mg420]

Must build up the bullpen. Our starters don't go deep in games, so it is a necessity. Dempster is fine as the closer, Wuertz is a serviceable middle reliever, Ohman is a serviceable lefty specialist. We need three relievers to join them: a quality setup man, a quality 7th inning man, and a long reliever. You could fill all three spots with the money a single Billy Wagner or BJ Ryan will command.

 

1. Sign either Bobby Howry, Scott Eyre or Scott Linebrink.

2. Trade for either Rafael Betancourt or Jesse Crain or Juan Rincon.

3. Make Jerome Williams your long reliever (if he's not traded in a different deal), when he is replaced by free agent signee Kevin Millwood for the rotation.

 

Let's say: Dempster, Betancourt, Howry, Wuertz, Ohman, Williams. I'd go to war with that bullpen.

 

im hoping for ohman, eyre, wuretz, jvb, howry & dempster myself.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I could live with this pen:

 

Dempster CL

Dotel Set-up

Wuertz

Hill

Ohman

Novoa

[YearofDaCubs]

I could live with this pen:

 

Dempster CL

Dotel Set-up

Wuertz

Hill

Ohman

Novoa

Why not Williamson? If healthy, he will be very good.

[XZero771679666304]

I could live with this pen:

 

Dempster CL

Dotel Set-up

Wuertz

Hill

Ohman

Novoa

 

I hope Hill gets dealt.

 

This pen would work for me:

 

Dempster

Eyre

Seanez

Williamson

Ohman

Novoa

[TheDude]

Our starters don't go deep in games, so it is a necessity.

This is a misstatement. Even despite all the health concerns in the starting rotation, Cubs starters pitched just shy of a 1000 innings in 2005, good for 11/30 in MLB. Anytime you can get 1000 innings from your starters, you're doing well.

 

If (always a big If) Wood, Prior, Maddux, and Zambrano remain healthy, we can expect each of them to provide 6,7,6,7 averages per start for 2006.

 

Williams is also a horse. Or the buzz is the last starter will be another innings eater.

 

The rotation for 2006 should easily go deep in most games.

[SAMMYWHO]

I'm surprised Williamson isn't mentioned more. If Vance's obsession with Dotel actually comes true we'll have a six inning game. Most of the time. Dotel won't go everyday like Williamson this year but when he does I'd put Dotel in the seventh followed by Williamson and then Dempster. Throw in Ohman when needed and that's a solid backend of the game.