hahahhahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dalgreen]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

[XZero771679666304]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

 

Not to mention the seven guaranteed years. You don't see many contracts that long.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It's a bargain now, but not because of a hometown discount. It was signed prior to free agency, which always takes away upside potential in a player's contract. That was not considered a discount at the time of signing. And it wasn't a hometown discount.

 

Most teams have a couple instances where a player accepted less than other offers to play there. Mark Grace's non-stop 1 year deals were interpreted to many as being a type of home town discount (any other team would have had to pay much more, as Arizona finally did, to get him to leave). Todd Walker took a reported discounted contract to come to the Cubs.

[biittner77]

A few things about this series:

 

Is it just me or is the Astros offense eerily similar to the Cubs'? They have a good hitter that is basically doing what he always does (Berkman for Astros, Ramirez for Cubs) a guy having a career year (Ensberg, Lee) and the rest of the lineup are first pitch hackers.

 

I was flipping channels and every time I flipped back the Cards were batting. The Astros must have the worst hitting approach of any succesful team I've seen.

 

Are the Astros going to permanently ruin Lidge? The shelf life of dominant closers is short and they have a tendacy to suddenly lose effectiveness. Lidge has great stuff but these 2 inning saves seem to be catching up to him.

 

Why does it make sense to play small ball in the playoffs? If the pitching is that much better why give them a free out?

 

Speaking of small ball, Isn't it funny to see teams try to bunt, fail but score anyway when they get a hit?

 

I could have sworn I heard an announcer say that Posednik had been thrown out stealing 20 times this season. That can't possibly be true, can it?

[imb]

I think Podsednik was 52/73, something like that.

 

EDIT

 

59SB 23CS

[XZero771679666304]

A few things about this series:

 

Is it just me or is the Astros offense eerily similar to the Cubs'? They have a good hitter that is basically doing what he always does (Berkman for Astros, Ramirez for Cubs) a guy having a career year (Ensberg, Lee) and the rest of the lineup are first pitch hackers.

 

I was flipping channels and every time I flipped back the Cards were batting. The Astros must have the worst hitting approach of any succesful team I've seen.

 

Are the Astros going to permanently ruin Lidge? The shelf life of dominant closers is short and they have a tendacy to suddenly lose effectiveness. Lidge has great stuff but these 2 inning saves seem to be catching up to him.

 

Why does it make sense to play small ball in the playoffs? If the pitching is that much better why give them a free out?

 

Speaking of small ball, Isn't it funny to see teams try to bunt, fail but score anyway when they get a hit?

 

I could have sworn I heard an announcer say that Posednik had been thrown out stealing 20 times this season. That can't possibly be true, can it?

 

Pods got caught 23 times. His percentage was not good.

 

And Lidge has had arm trouble in the past, so that compounds his overuse.

[goonys evil twin]

I could have sworn I heard an announcer say that Posednik had been thrown out stealing 20 times this season. That can't possibly be true, can it?

 

It's got to be. In fact, I think it's a couple more than that. He's not very efficient.

[imb]

I could have sworn I heard an announcer say that Posednik had been thrown out stealing 20 times this season. That can't possibly be true, can it?

 

It's got to be. In fact, I think it's a couple more than that. He's not very efficient.

 

That's right at 72%. Isn't that the magic number? Or did they raise it?

[K-Town]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

 

Pujols said "no hometown discount" because he was in bargaining mode, at the time. What do you think he was going to say? "Anything they want to offer me is fine"? He wanted to stay in St. Louis, but he's not braindead.

 

Maybe it wasn't a hometown discount. Maybe Edmonds' relatively cheap salary isn't, either. Maybe Carpenter's isn't. Maybe Morris' isn't. Maybe Jocketty is just a genius. Either way is fine with me.

 

Steve Kline is on record as saying that he wishes he had taken less money to play in St. Louis this year. That didn't go over well in Baltimore, but he said it, nontheless.

[XZero771679666304]

I could have sworn I heard an announcer say that Posednik had been thrown out stealing 20 times this season. That can't possibly be true, can it?

 

It's got to be. In fact, I think it's a couple more than that. He's not very efficient.

 

That's right at 72%. Isn't that the magic number? Or did they raise it?

 

I've heard 80% or 85%. And since Pods' OBP was pretty average among leadoff men and he has no power, I think you would want at least 85% or more from him.

[XZero771679666304]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

 

Pujols said "no hometown discount" because he was in bargaining mode, at the time. What do you think he was going to say? "Anything they want to offer me is fine"? He wanted to stay in St. Louis, but he's not braindead.

 

Maybe it wasn't a hometown discount. Maybe Edmonds' relatively cheap salary isn't, either. Maybe Carpenter's isn't. Maybe Morris' isn't. Maybe Jocketty is just a genius. Either way is fine with me.

 

Steve Kline is on record as saying that he wishes he had taken less money to play in St. Louis this year. That didn't go over well in Baltimore, but he said it, nontheless.

 

As far as Carp goes, he wasn't going to get any more from anyone else. Sure he has had a great season and a half, but he still has to be considered an injury risk based on the bulk of his career. 1 1/2 great seasons doesn't get you big money. He'd have been a fool to turn down any kind of long term deal.

[gus_dog]

IMO, in order to give a 'discount', a player would be able to get more to play elsewhere. Since Pujols could not even negotiate with any other team, I don't understand how anyone could possibly perceive that he 'gave' the Cardinals any kind of 'discount'.

 

Simply, it was a money and security grab for him and his agent.

 

Yes, of course it is turning out to be a good deal for the Cardinals - but no so-called 'home team discount'. If Pujols is hurt and his performance is negatively affected, it's not such a great deal for the Cardinals, huh?

[dalgreen]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

 

Pujols said "no hometown discount" because he was in bargaining mode, at the time. What do you think he was going to say? "Anything they want to offer me is fine"? He wanted to stay in St. Louis, but he's not braindead.

 

Maybe it wasn't a hometown discount. Maybe Edmonds' relatively cheap salary isn't, either. Maybe Carpenter's isn't. Maybe Morris' isn't. Maybe Jocketty is just a genius. Either way is fine with me.

 

Steve Kline is on record as saying that he wishes he had taken less money to play in St. Louis this year. That didn't go over well in Baltimore, but he said it, nontheless.

 

Look, I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.

[K-Town]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

 

Pujols said "no hometown discount" because he was in bargaining mode, at the time. What do you think he was going to say? "Anything they want to offer me is fine"? He wanted to stay in St. Louis, but he's not braindead.

 

Maybe it wasn't a hometown discount. Maybe Edmonds' relatively cheap salary isn't, either. Maybe Carpenter's isn't. Maybe Morris' isn't. Maybe Jocketty is just a genius. Either way is fine with me.

 

Steve Kline is on record as saying that he wishes he had taken less money to play in St. Louis this year. That didn't go over well in Baltimore, but he said it, nontheless.

 

As far as Carp goes, he wasn't going to get any more from anyone else. Sure he has had a great season and a half, but he still has to be considered an injury risk based on the bulk of his career. 1 1/2 great seasons doesn't get you big money. He'd have been a fool to turn down any kind of long term deal.

 

 

His comments made it sound like a "home town discount":

 

"It's very exciting for me and my family. It's exciting to be part of the Cardinals team for several more years," Carpenter said before Friday's game against the Milwaukee Brewers. "It's good to know the players, the manager and the general manager who are going to be around. It plays into wanting to be part of this team."

"Basically my other option was to pitch the season and then look into the free agent market, or get it done now and know that for the next three years I was going to be where I wanted to play," he said. "There's a lot of stability in this organization. Everybody here is pretty solid in the direction they're going. There is no transition. I wasn't going to go somewhere just for the money and take the chance of being miserable."

[K-Town]

Look, I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.

 

I think that's reasonable. I know that other teams have players who are willing to take "home town discounts", just because of the famiarity, but St. Louis is well-known as the best baseball town, and I think that there are more players willing to take a bit of a financial hit to play there.

[hardcorecubfan]

baseball season is over. It's football season now.

 

No, its not that season until the WS is over.

[hardcorecubfan]

go figure, who knew that Lidge is a choker like Farnsworth?

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Brad Lidge must be a gutless choking dog. I think that's the vernacular.

 

wish I had money down on that, the odds were greater the Pujols got a hit than for Lidge to strike him out. Lidge was due for a bad pitch

[indifferent]

It was 7 years, $100 mil (a little over 14 mil per year).

 

He would have been eligible for arbitration anyway....... who knows how much he would have gotten? And he would have been free agent eligible after 2006.

 

I'm not sure there's any way to not view it as a "bargain", considering he's the best player in baseball (maybe A-rod is, but a case could be made for Pujols).

 

It is a "bargain" because I do think he's the best player in the game. However, it wasn't a "hometown discount" like McGwire's. Pujols himself said, "No hometown discounts." And arbitration is a crapshoot. Yeah, he could've been awarded $20 million (although I don't think his agent would've asked for that, but you get my point) or he could've been awarded $6 million (a figure the Cards could have offered and would still be a nice raise over his 2004 salary). Neither side wanted to take a chance. But taking an average of $14 million is not a hometown discount.

 

Pujols said "no hometown discount" because he was in bargaining mode, at the time. What do you think he was going to say? "Anything they want to offer me is fine"? He wanted to stay in St. Louis, but he's not braindead.

 

Maybe it wasn't a hometown discount. Maybe Edmonds' relatively cheap salary isn't, either. Maybe Carpenter's isn't. Maybe Morris' isn't. Maybe Jocketty is just a genius. Either way is fine with me.

 

Steve Kline is on record as saying that he wishes he had taken less money to play in St. Louis this year. That didn't go over well in Baltimore, but he said it, nontheless.

 

Look, I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.

 

Whether they purposely took a discount or not, I don't think Carpenter and Pujols are good examples. They are both being paid less, and will be paid less next year than the open market would pay them. Rolen, on the other hand, has a lengthy contract and many years on his contract (and one career year). He is being overpaid this year, and he will most likely be overpaid next year.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Look, I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.

 

I think that's reasonable. I know that other teams have players who are willing to take "home town discounts", just because of the famiarity, but St. Louis is well-known as the best baseball town, and I think that there are more players willing to take a bit of a financial hit to play there.

 

That is just an unsubstantiated myth.

[K-Town]

Look, I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.

 

I think that's reasonable. I know that other teams have players who are willing to take "home town discounts", just because of the famiarity, but St. Louis is well-known as the best baseball town, and I think that there are more players willing to take a bit of a financial hit to play there.

 

That is just an unsubstantiated myth.

 

 

Well, "best baseball town" might be a myth, but they have the best fans, which to me makes them the best baseball town.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Look, I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.

 

I think that's reasonable. I know that other teams have players who are willing to take "home town discounts", just because of the famiarity, but St. Louis is well-known as the best baseball town, and I think that there are more players willing to take a bit of a financial hit to play there.

 

That is just an unsubstantiated myth.

 

 

Well, "best baseball town" might be a myth, but they have the best fans, which to me makes them the best baseball town.

 

Best fans is also a myth. You can't substantiate it. In your opinion, they might have the best fans, but you know what they say about opinions...

[gus_dog]

Well, "best baseball town" might be a myth, but they have the best fans, which to me makes them the best baseball town.

 

lmao

 

How's the air up there?

[K-Town]

Look' date=' I'm not saying the Cardinals haven't had guys who publicly said they would take less money to play here. Heck, I live here, I know about Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen. But I just have to refute anyone (and I'm not necessarily saying you) who even pretends that type of stuff only happens to St. Louis. Need I remind you of Andre Dawson's blank check offer to the Cubs back in 1987? Anyway, for every Rolen there's a Renteria, who didn't want to accept less money. And don't forget Matt Morris turned down a lucrative offer from the Cardinals in 2004, but then got hurt so he had to sign the one year $2 million contract he now has. Had he not gotten hurt he wouldn't even be a Cardinal today. I think Carpenter took the best offer possible after coming off of surgery.

 

Yes, Pujols could've said nothing just as he did even though he was grossly underpaid after the 2003 season when he got a raise from $900,000 to $3 million. Plus, he, I'm sure, was fully aware of guys who had said they'd take less to stay here. I doubt he would've accepted a 7/$65 million contract just because he wanted to stay in St. Louis. It's a bargain for the Cardinals but Pujols didn't give them a hometown discount.[/quote']

 

I think that's reasonable. I know that other teams have players who are willing to take "home town discounts", just because of the famiarity, but St. Louis is well-known as the best baseball town, and I think that there are more players willing to take a bit of a financial hit to play there.

 

That is just an unsubstantiated myth.

 

 

Well, "best baseball town" might be a myth, but they have the best fans, which to me makes them the best baseball town.

 

Best fans is also a myth. You can't substantiate it. In your opinion, they might have the best fans, but you know what they say about opinions...

 

 

I can substantiate it, and it's not even that close. Unless the players' opinions don't matter to you.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/07/01/survey/

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

[K-Town]

I think that's the first Cardinal fan I've actually seen embrace the "best fans" title.

 

Who says I'm "embracing" anything?