Predict the Apology

[Chris]

And he didn't punch AJP right away either. This indecision led to this mess.

 

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out.

 

I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out.

 

Then why the extra hand motion after giving the signal of no contact? Why make the effort to bring your arm in, clinch your fist, and give the out signal? Little kids in t-ball know that when an umpire clinches his fist that you are out.

[goonys evil twin]

Also, it doesn't really matter if Paul threw the ball to the mound or not. Don't you think if there was no out signal made that Escobar would've gone over to the ball and thrown him out? He would've had him easy, BUT THE UMP SIGNALED OUT, so the inning should be over.

 

In all the games you played when you could run on a 3rd strike what did the ump do? He usually pumps that arm for the 3rd strike but often doesn't call it an out until the play is over. Look at tapes of umps when this happens...look at the earlier AB when it happened.

 

I think the most obvious thing to give away the umps mistake was his reaction to AJ running. He momentarily freaked out. His body almost spasmed as he tried to figure out what was happening. Umps know the game, when they know the call they've made they react appropriately. When a guy slides to home, isn't tagged but misses the plate, the ump is rather obvious in the way he isn't indicating out or safe. This ump looked completely confused that AJ was going to first, almost as if he felt like he might have missed a drop ball that only AJ saw.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Well, he (Mike) just said, "Where is the crew chief?" So I was there. He just said, "Hey, he called him out." I said, "Mike, he didn't call him out." I said, "He called it a strike."

 

:-s

 

Yes. The umps all have Eddings back. :roll:

 

Did Paul hear him say that AJP was out? If so then the ump is lying but if he didn't then there is the gray area.

 

No. The ump said NOTHING. I think Paul was also affected by seeing Erstad, Kennedy, Cabrerra and Figgins running to the dugout and they saw Eddings' fist signal the out.

[CuseCubFan69]

And he didn't punch AJP right away either. This indecision led to this mess.

 

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out.

 

I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out.

 

But he motioned with his fist that he was out. Eddings said nothing, because he wanted to see what the players would do...way to control the field of play, ump. :roll:

 

I agree that is the wrong thing to do. It also proves my point that there was a possibility of it not being an out and AJP took advantage while Paul assumed the other.

 

Also, that explaination doesn't make sense because half of the players involved believed it to be an out so since Paul didn't throw the ball to first and rolled the ball to the mound I dont see how that explaination can be right.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Also, it doesn't really matter if Paul threw the ball to the mound or not. Don't you think if there was no out signal made that Escobar would've gone over to the ball and thrown him out? He would've had him easy, BUT THE UMP SIGNALED OUT, so the inning should be over.

 

In all the games you played when you could run on a 3rd strike what did the ump do? He usually pumps that arm for the 3rd strike but often doesn't call it an out until the play is over. Look at tapes of umps when this happens...look at the earlier AB when it happened.

 

This is exactly the point Cuse. In the very same game(might have even been the previous hitter), Eddings waited until after the tag/throw to first to pump his fist to make the out call. This time he did it right there, so what are the players supposed to think?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

And he didn't punch AJP right away either. This indecision led to this mess.

 

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out.

 

I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out.

 

But he motioned with his fist that he was out. Eddings said nothing, because he wanted to see what the players would do...way to control the field of play, ump. :roll:

 

I agree that is the wrong thing to do. It also proves my point that there was a possibility of it not being an out and AJP took advantage while Paul assumed the other.

 

Also, that explaination doesn't make sense because half of the players involved believed it to be an out so since Paul didn't throw the ball to first and rolled the ball to the mound I dont see how that explaination can be right.

 

There is no possibility that AJP wasn't out. Eddings fist took care of any doubts on that.

[CuseCubFan69]

Also, it doesn't really matter if Paul threw the ball to the mound or not. Don't you think if there was no out signal made that Escobar would've gone over to the ball and thrown him out? He would've had him easy, BUT THE UMP SIGNALED OUT, so the inning should be over.

 

In all the games you played when you could run on a 3rd strike what did the ump do? He usually pumps that arm for the 3rd strike but often doesn't call it an out until the play is over. Look at tapes of umps when this happens...look at the earlier AB when it happened.

 

I think the most obvious thing to give away the umps mistake was his reaction to AJ running. He momentarily freaked out. His body almost spasmed as he tried to figure out what was happening. Umps know the game, when they know the call they've made they react appropriately. When a guy slides to home, isn't tagged but misses the plate, the ump is rather obvious in the way he isn't indicating out or safe. This ump looked completely confused that AJ was going to first, almost as if he felt like he might have missed a drop ball that only AJ saw.

 

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

[CuseCubFan69]

And he didn't punch AJP right away either. This indecision led to this mess.

 

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out.

 

I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out.

 

But he motioned with his fist that he was out. Eddings said nothing, because he wanted to see what the players would do...way to control the field of play, ump. :roll:

 

I agree that is the wrong thing to do. It also proves my point that there was a possibility of it not being an out and AJP took advantage while Paul assumed the other.

 

Also, that explaination doesn't make sense because half of the players involved believed it to be an out so since Paul didn't throw the ball to first and rolled the ball to the mound I dont see how that explaination can be right.

 

There is no possibility that AJP wasn't out. Eddings fist took care of any doubts on that.

 

Doesn't an ump yell you're out?

[Chris]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

[CuseCubFan69]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

Is that what the replay said? I saw AJP run while the ump was signaling the out. Also, as I've asked the others....did he really CALL him out?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

And he didn't punch AJP right away either. This indecision led to this mess.

 

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out.

 

I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out.

 

But he motioned with his fist that he was out. Eddings said nothing, because he wanted to see what the players would do...way to control the field of play, ump. :roll:

 

I agree that is the wrong thing to do. It also proves my point that there was a possibility of it not being an out and AJP took advantage while Paul assumed the other.

 

Also, that explaination doesn't make sense because half of the players involved believed it to be an out so since Paul didn't throw the ball to first and rolled the ball to the mound I dont see how that explaination can be right.

 

There is no possibility that AJP wasn't out. Eddings fist took care of any doubts on that.

 

Doesn't an ump yell you're out?

 

Hrm, apparently he did yell him out:

 

"I was right there, how many feet away. I didn't see if the ball hit the dirt, but I saw the umpire point and call him out. That's all I needed to see." - Angels reliever Kelvim Escobar

 

EDIT: That doesn't necessarily mean Eddings yelled.

Edited October 13, 2005 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There is no possibility that AJP wasn't out. Eddings fist took care of any doubts on that.

 

Doesn't an ump yell you're out?

 

Like was brought up earlier, the customary thing on a swing and miss for strike three is to assume that the person is out, but if the umpire yells that the ball hit the ground, then it's to be played out.

[CuseCubFan69]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

[CuseCubFan69]

There is no possibility that AJP wasn't out. Eddings fist took care of any doubts on that.

 

Doesn't an ump yell you're out?

 

Like was brought up earlier, the customary thing on a swing and miss for strike three is to assume that the person is out, but if the umpire yells that the ball hit the ground, then it's to be played out.

 

But he doesn't have to yell it hit the ground according to what another poster has said.

[Chris]

Is that what the replay said? I saw AJP run while the ump was signaling the out. Also, as I've asked the others....did he really CALL him out?

 

He pulls his arm in and clinches his fist, which is what I always thought was the signal for out.

[adamb0719]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

 

Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

 

Why is it necessary to have the visual and audible confirmation? Paul's the only one within 60 feet, and the infield's all about 100+ feet away. With the noise level of the crowd, you can't expect the fielders to hear something the umpire says through a mask.

 

Again I'll say it, if Eddings doesn't signal AJP out, then Escobar would've gotten to the ball and thrown him out by 5 steps.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

 

Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit?

 

Yes, it should. To everyone besides the umps.

[CuseCubFan69]

Is that what the replay said? I saw AJP run while the ump was signaling the out. Also, as I've asked the others....did he really CALL him out?

 

He pulls his arm in and clinches his fist, which is what I always thought was the signal for out.

 

I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called.

[Chris]

I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called.

 

If an MLB has to yell it to be an out then what's the purpose of making the signal?

[CuseCubFan69]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

 

Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit?

 

I said 100%. The Angels have a very valid arguement I have never denied that. Also, for anyone that taped the game I think it would matter what the ump did the whole game to determine his pattern for K's.

[adamb0719]

Is that what the replay said? I saw AJP run while the ump was signaling the out. Also, as I've asked the others....did he really CALL him out?

 

He pulls his arm in and clinches his fist, which is what I always thought was the signal for out.

 

I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called.

 

But this ump does not, as every other at bat showed. The fist pump means out. If it meant strike three, but your not out then why on dropped balls did he not pump his fist until the play was finished.

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called.

 

If an MLB has to yell it to be an out then what's the purpose of making the signal?

 

I do not know the MLB rules regarding this DJAXX. I know that HS umps are more vocal when it's an out and by using visual and verbal aids it helps everyone. How does a catcher know anything unless the ump yells ball or strike?

[adamb0719]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

 

Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit?

 

I said 100%. The Angels have a very valid arguement I have never denied that. Also, for anyone that taped the game I think it would matter what the ump did the whole game to determine his pattern for K's.

 

What he did the whole game is what makes it indisputable that he called him out

[wekse]

True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

 

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire.

 

If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

 

Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit?

 

I said 100%. The Angels have a very valid arguement I have never denied that. Also, for anyone that taped the game I think it would matter what the ump did the whole game to determine his pattern for K's.

 

they went through that on BBTN last nite....he clearly made the same call on all swinging third strikes...he would raise his right hand signaling no contact and do the fist pump....he called ajp out, it' clear.